Coronavirus: what your country is doing, how you feel & general discussion

[Inara]

I've just heard an interview with the German vrologist Kekulé, and two things have burnt into my mind:

We blew it.

Taiwan installed precautions early and consequently and they have no problem. I could have cried.

 

[Inara]

Please stop spreading unfounded fears.

I kindly and sincerely (I am really interested I mean) ask you to give proofs for the claim that SARS-Cov-2 is harmless, when every source I looked at or heard says otherwise (papers, virologists, the situation at hand, virology blog...).

SARS didn't spread fast or easily (in fact barely), but its death rate was 9,8%. Cov-2 spreads fast, and has an estimated death rate of 0,7-2% (depending on which source you read; in Italy it's close to 8%?). If my symptoms I developed today (and some days ago) are COVID-19, then I'd say it spreads pretty easily. I have no closer contact to anyone and go barely to public places.

I call ca. 5000 deaths in Italy in 1-2 weeks not normal.
But I admit I don't know the normal death numbers.

We might say in retrospect if what happens now was hype. We can't say now. Virologists around thevwotld say it's not hype. It depends on the virus, it seems, about which not so much is known I understood.

Edit:

If you say without any source - that total-mortality is in excess when it is not - then you're spreading unfounded fears.

Can you explain why the table you linked to, by EuroMOMO, is a proof for SARS-Cov-2 being harmless? And what is EuroMOMO? I find absolutely no information, sadly. Whenever I search it, only Prof. Wodarg comes. And I don't view him as a serious source.

Edit2:
This is a statement from the EuroMOMO website:

Special note in relation to COVID-19 related mortality as part of the all-cause mortality figures reported by EuroMOMO

Over the past days, the EuroMOMO hub has received multiple questions about the weekly all-cause mortality data and the possible contribution of COVID-19 related mortality. Some wonder why there no increased mortality observed in the reported mortality figures for the COVID-19 affected countries. The answer is that an increased mortality only at subnational level or within smaller focal areas may not be detected at national level. Even more so in the pooled European-wide analysis, given the large total population denominator. Furthermore, there is always a few weeks of delay in death registration and reporting. Hence, the EuroMOMO mortality figures for the most recent weeks must be interpreted with caution. Therefore, although no increased mortality is currently observed in the EuroMOMO figures, it does not rule out that increased mortality occur in some areas or in some age groups, including mortality related to COVID-19.

 

[Inara]

For a reality check you could monitor http://www.euromomo.eu/slices/map_2017_2020.html, which reports weekly if there have been excess deaths.

I've just understood now that if you click on that link, that map shows the mortality rate of 2017. If you click on the time line to 2020, the most recent data is from week 10. We are in week 12 - I get no data for week 12. In week 10, the corona pandemy in Europe was at the beginning, i.e. it was at the beginning of the exponential growth. No higher mortality rate expected at that point of time.
From Asia, Russia...no data.

 

[pamojja]

I call ca. 5000 deaths in Italy in 1-2 weeks not normal.
But I admit I don't know the normal death numbers.

Just calculated from the usual yearly mortality rate its in average 1774 dying throughout the country each day. 3.47 in Bergamo. From the first death on 21st of February, allmost a month now, 2978 reportedly have died from Covid-9 in Italy. Usually 42,124 would have died in the period of 26 days since the first death.

 

[pamojja]

Virologists around thevwotld say it's not hype.

Give me the name of only one virologist who in this situation doesn't has a conflict of intrest?

Are you aware how many millions of research grants will be flowing by confirming what hysteria dictates?

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Can someone answer this question? The Uk science advisers have said it’s a good thing if “only” 20,000 people die

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240028398166122496

 

[Inara]

A blog post by Hilda Bastian discussing some points critically:
http://hildabastian.net/index.php/8-secondary/87

Edit:
I found this also interesting
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/18/we-know-enough-now-to-act-decisively-against-covid-19/

 

[rainbowbluebells]

You know your country has its priorities wrong when it does this..

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240701952511447041

 

[rainbowbluebells]

A blog post by Hilda Bastian discussing some points critically:
http://hildabastian.net/index.php/8-secondary/87

Edit:
I found this also interesting
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/18/we-know-enough-now-to-act-decisively-against-covid-19/

These are really useful and helpful links thank you. A lot of the “arguments” that Hilda answers, I’ve heard a lot of those “arguments” before!

 

[bertiedog]

Just calculated from the usual yearly mortality rate its in average 1774 dying throughout the country each day. 3.47 in Bergamo. From the first death on 21st of February, allmost a month now, 2978 reportedly have died from Covid-9 in Italy. Usually 42,124 would have died in the period of 26 days since the first death.

I have just seen on either Sky or CNN I am not sure pictures of endless army trucks transporting the dead to be buried. . Are you trying to tell me this is a NORMAL occasion at this time of year in a country like Italy?

Words fail me.

Pam

 

[ljimbo423]

IV vitamin C looks like a very effective treatment that's readily available all over the world. It reversed even severe cases of Covid-19........

Dr. Mao has been using high-dose dose IVC to treat patients with acute pancreatitis, sepsis, surgical wound healing and other medical conditions for over 10 years. When Covid-19 broke out, he and other experts thought of vitamin C and recommended IVC for the treatment of moderate to severe cases of Covid-19 patients.

The recommendation was accepted early in the epidemic by the Shanghai Expert Team. All serious or critically ill Covid-19 patients in the Shanghai area were treated in Shanghai Public Health Center, for a total of 358 Covid-19 patients as of March 17th, 2020.

Dr. Mao stated that his group treated ~50 cases of moderate to severe cases of Covid-19 infection with high dose IVC. The IVC dosing was in the range of 10,000 mg - 20,000 mg a day for 7-10 days, with 10,000 mg for moderate cases and 20,000 for more severe cases, determined by pulmonary status (mostly the oxygenation index) and coagulation status.

All patients who received IVC improved and there was no mortality. Compared to the average of a 30-day hospital stay for all Covid-19 patients, those patients who received high dose IVC had a hospital stay about 3-5 days shorter than the overall patients.

Dr. Mao discussed one severe case in particular who was deteriorating rapidly. He gave a bolus of 50,000 mg IVC over a period of 4 hours. The patient's pulmonary (oxygenation index) status stabilized and improved as the critical care team watched in real time. There were no side effects reported from any of the cases treated with high dose IVC.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...reat-coronavirus-patients.79430/#post-2263487 POST # 13

 

[rainbowbluebells]

I've just heard an interview with the German vrologist Kekulé, and two things have burnt into my mind:

We blew it.

Taiwan installed precautions early and consequently and they have no problem. I could have cried.

This.
I think Europe were far too complacent. Why though? They had the resources and forewarning to be able to stop an outbreak.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Today our PM did his daily press conference, somehow he spoke for a long time but did not actually say a single new thing about what his plan is for the Uk.
Pubs; clubs restaurants bars , nail salons, all still open.
No proper sick pay, or citizens income, or anything to support people - so they’re still all going into work
Public transport still full
Basically, nothing
Utter shambles.

 

[pamojja]

I have just seen on either Sky or CNN I am not sure pictures of endless army trucks transporting the dead to be buried. . Are you trying to tell me this is a NORMAL occasion at this time of year in a country like Italy?

Words fail me.

The situation in Wuhan or Bergamo are emergencies. However, it is NORMAL that so many needlessly die year in and out and nobody cares. Unless they see it with their own eyes on news, how trucks are transporting deaths to be buried.

Without saying any of the precautions should be neglected. The real numbers of this event have to be kept an eye on too. To not cause even more preventable deaths due to blind panic.

Exaggerating, by shortening the event to half the time past, and doubling the number of deaths only helps to increase blind panic.

 

[bertiedog]

@pamojja I repeat for the last time words fail me.

Pam

 

[pamojja]

And I repeat, spreading fear and panic wont help anyone. Do self-isolate, take all precaution, and do fact-check what is aired on all media.

 

[Wally]

When it comes to this coronavirus (COVID-19) only time and accurate numbers will reveal if the world got it wrong or right when choosing mandatory quarantines, recommendations of social distancing/self-isolation and/or reliance on natural herd immunity. Here are two videos that lay out the history of how we got to where we are today and what questions will need to be asked and carefully examined as additional numbers about this virus develop.

Be forewarned that these videos come from two sources who are usually on the opposite sides of the fence when discussing issues around vaccine safety and risk. Since there is no vaccine for the coronavirus at this time, it is interesting that they have both found some common ground in the questions they raise about 1) what do the numbers really mean and 2) what questions do we need to keep open for discussion on how to handle this “pandemic” as time goes by.

Highwire News Show with Del Bigtree on 3/19/2020 - “Coronavirus Quarantine”

Dr. Zubin Damania’s 3/17/2020 interview with Paul Offitt - “COVID-19 Is Our Cure Worst Than The Disease?”

 

[rainbowbluebells]

How are the people in your different countries reacting?

I worry about the social situation here in the UK.
People are panic buying food, so much empty shelves still, can’t get delivery slots. So vulnerable and elderly will miss out on food. It’s been like this for weeks now. I don’t know how some people are eating.

People are stealing from food banks in the UK. Very upsetting, how can someone even think to do that? Lots of people have become very selfish and uncaring in the UK.

I do think at least some of this is also due to the fact everyone’s confused. People don’t trust our PM as he basically lies a lot. He said before I will make sure your food supply is uninterrupted, and said he had talked to the supermarkets, and then next day the supermarkets said he had never spoken to them. So another reason why people are panic buying

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240711395970125824

 

[Inara]

The same here @rainbowbluebells. Empty shelves, especially tissues and loo paper and noodles. I tried to get loo paper - no chance. Even online. I tried to get frozen vegetables - nothing in one supermarket, but another had. I called both supermarkets: Both said they have trouble with the supply chains. They can't say what will come - whatever comes through, comes through.

Problem is: If people didn't do hoarding, there'd be enough for everyone.

 

[AnnieT]

I live in a town in Scotland, there have been everything apart from hand sanitizer in our local shops. I know a few people too who have had a note through their door from someone on their street saying to call them if they need anything. There is a feeling of people pulling together, ... while keeping their distance. I am not able to be active, but have told 2 elderly neighbours to call me if they need to, ... even just to know we are not alone.