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China is using high dose vitamin C therapy to help treat coronavirus patients

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The numbers get worse each day as reports flood in of new cases from all over the world. Governments and health organizations are focused upon containment, mitigation, testing and treatment of the coronavirus pandemic. Large amounts of money have been devoted to finding a vaccine to this disease. As yet, little attention has been paid to potential treatments for sick people that are cheap, easy to mass manufacture and very safe such as vitamins D and C.

The Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, on Feb 21, 2020 makes the point very well:


“Medical orthodoxy obsessively focuses on searching for a vaccine and/or drug for coronavirus COVID-19). While they are looking for what would be fabulously profitable approaches, we have with vitamin C an existing, plausible, clinically demonstrated method to treat what coronavirus patients die from: severe acute respiratory syndrome, or pneumonia.’’


In a previous article I spoke about a 2017 study on the efficacy of vitamin D, which is actually a hormone, in giving people some protection against acute respiratory tract infections. Besides this vitamin/hormone another over looked potential treatment is high dose vitamin C.

Vitamin C as a potential treatment for the common cold and pneumonia has been demonized by the medical establishment since the pioneering work of Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling in the early 1970s.


It is therefore very interesting to find out there are 3 clinical trials in China where vitamin C will be intravenously administered in high doses to patients with the coronavirus.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04264533


The study description reads:


“2019 new coronavirus (2019-nCoV) infected pneumonia, namely severe acute respiratory infection (SARI) has caused global concern and emergency. There is a lack of effective targeted antiviral drugs, and symptomatic supportive treatment is still the current main treatment for SARI.


Vitamin C is significant to human body and plays a role in reducing inflammatory response and preventing common cold. In addtion, a few studies have shown that vitamin C deficiency is related to the increased risk and severity of influenza infections.


We hypothize that Vitamin C infusion can help improve the prognosis of patients with SARI. Therefore, it is necessary to study the clinical efficacy and safety of vitamin C for the clinical management of SARI through randomized controlled trials during the current epidemic of SARI.’’


The lead clinician is ZhiYong Peng, Professor; Chief physician at Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University in the province of Hubei. We shall have to wait until September for these clinical trials to conclude. Hopefully they will have positive results to report and that vitamin C has helped save lives.


It would appear that some hospitals in China are already using high dose vitamin C therapy in conjunction with other treatments such as oxygen therapy and anti-virals. The second affiliated hospital of Xi’an Jiaotong University (Xibei Hospital) released a press statement on 21 February titled, ‘High-dose vitamin C treatment of new coronary pneumonia’. It noted the success of using high dose vitamin C early in the treatment of coronarvirus patients and explained its treatment protocol:


“On the afternoon of February 20, 2020, another 4 patients with severe neocoronary pneumonia recovered from the C10 West Ward of Tongji Hospital in the Tongji Hospital, which was taken over by the Second Aid National Medical Assistance Team of Xi'an Jiaotong University. The medical team was officially put into work In the past 8 patients have been discharged from hospital.

After 10 days of practical exploration by the medical team and repeated discussions by the expert group, our expert group proposed a specific plan for the combination of high-dose vitamin C to treat the new crown, and achieved good results in clinical applications. Our treatment plan is generally summarized as "early, adequate, short course, combined."

Early stage: The so-called "early stage" refers to the timely application of high-dose vitamin C in the early stages of the disease course.

We believe that for patients with severe neonatal pneumonia and critically ill patients, vitamin C treatment should be initiated as soon as possible after admission. This is because no matter the past Keshan disease, SARS and Middle East respiratory syndrome, or the current new pneumonia, the main cause of death of patients is cardiopulmonary failure caused by increased acute oxidative stress.


When the virus causes increased oxidative stress in the body and increased capillary permeability, early application of large doses of vitamin C can have a strong antioxidant effect, reduce inflammatory responses, and improve endothelial function.


Adequate: Adequate refers to the large amount of vitamin C. Numerous studies have shown that the dose of vitamin C has a lot to do with the effect of treatment Our past experience in successfully rescuing acute Keshan disease and current studies at home and abroad show that high-dose vitamin C can not only improve antiviral levels, but more importantly, can prevent and treat acute lung injury (ALI) and acute respiratory distress (ARDS).


Short-term: Short-term means that the medication time does not exceed 1 week.Short-term application of large doses of vitamin C in the critical period of disease progression can achieve twice the result with half the effort, and can significantly reduce the side effects such as kidney stones, hematuria and renal colic that should be brought in the long term, reduce nausea, vomiting, hypotension, tachycardia, etc Adverse reactions to avoid the body's dependence on exogenous vitamin C caused by long-term medication.’’

http://2yuan.xjtu.edu.cn/Html/News/Articles/21774.html



Meanwhile, the government of Shanghai has adopted mega dose vitamin C therapy into its coronavirus treatment protocol. This protocol was adopted on 1 March. See below.

In the treatment plan section of the document it notes that anti-virals should be used in conjunction with oxygen therapy. It states that to prevent a coronavirus patient becoming a severe case then:

“Heparin anticoagulation and high-dose vitamin C are recommended. Low-molecular-weight heparin 1 to 2 per day, continued until the patient's D-dimer level returned to normal. Once fibrinogen degradation product (FDP) ≥10 µg / mL and / or D-dimer ≥5 μg / mL, switch to unfractionated heparin. Vitamin C is administered at a dose of 50 to 100 mg / kg per day, and the continuous use time is aimed at a significant improvement in the oxygenation index. ‘’

If a patient becomes critically ill it recommends a variety of measures including:

“Prevention and treatment of cytokine storm: large doses of vitamin C and unfractionated heparin are recommended. Large doses of vitamin C are injected intravenously at a dose of 100 to 200 mg / kg per day. The duration of continuous use is aimed at a significant improvement in the oxygenation index. The use of large doses is recommended.’’

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/bF2YhJKiOfe1yimBc4XwOA


The protocol mentions the grave dangers posed by sepsis to critically ill patients.

In the United States recent work by Dr. Paul Marik et al have demonstrated the efficacy of high dose vitamin C in successful treating sepsis which poses a danger to many pneumonia patients.

In the Chest Journal June 2017 Volume 151, Issue 6, Pages 1229–1238, Dr, Marik et al published an article,”Hydrocortisone, Vitamin C, and Thiamine for the Treatment of Severe Sepsis and Septic Shock’’.

It’s conclusions were very clear:

“Our results suggest that the early use of intravenous vitamin C, together with corticosteroids and thiamine, are effective in preventing progressive organ dysfunction, including acute kidney injury, and in reducing the mortality of patients with severe sepsis and septic shock. Additional studies are required to confirm these preliminary findings.’’

In response to criticism of his study Dr. Marik issued a rebuttal in the same journal that noted:

“IV vitamin C has been successfully used to treat patients in the general surgical ICU4; patients with traumatic injuries5, 6; and patients with sepsis,7, 8 pancreatitis,9 burns,10, 11 and tetanus12; as well as patients undergoing coronary artery bypass surgery.13 No adverse effects of IV vitamin C were noted in any of these studies. Patients with malignancy have received adjunctive treatment with IV vitamin C in doses of up to 150 g (100 times the dose that we recommend) without untoward side effects. We therefore believe that the administration of vitamin C in the dosage that we recommend is an exceedingly safe intervention.’’

Marik et al, Chest Journal, October 2017 Volume 152, Issue 4, Pages 905–906.

As the global pandemic gathers momentum we can only hope that public health authorities outside of China will consider using vitamin C therapy as a supplement to more mainstream treatments.
 

Avenger

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Hi Hip,
I am getting ready for the Coronavirus because the fools in Cheltenham UK are holding the Cheltenham Races which regularly brings in 250.000 people to my town, which will host one of the biggest Coronavirus incubation's in history when the punters hit the pubs and clubs. Many punters are coming from Ireland and abroad! This is all about the money again! Anyway...


After reading the articles below, I am going to try to hit my gut and lung with both antivirals and antibiotics as well as using things like Quinine Sulphate that can be used for both Bacterial and Viral Infections, High Vit C, Zinc, Brewers Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is a fungus containing Virus,that is highly beneficial to the Gut and has the potential to destroy Clostridium Difficile and other dangerous Bacteria such as Streprococcus and seems to have Phage properties as Antiviral and Antibacterial) and I will possibly add part of a protocol for destroying Biofilms in D-Lacic acidosis and Bacterial Overgrowth (Interfase Plus, NAC and Serraptase) hopefully rotating these during the incubation period experimentally.

There may be some similarities with Coronavirus related SARS in that the body has to deal initially with two major infection sites in Gut and Lungs. The Virus needs host Bacteria to reproduce, so hitting Bacteria in the Gut and Lungs may help reduce infection by destroying possible hosts.

In Aids the Virus uses Gut Bacteria as a vehicle to break down the mucosal lining to cause permeability...... although diarrhea may not be caused by the Coronavirus, it may still cause Gastrointestinal symptoms where Gut Bacteria host the Coronavirus and compound the assault (I have often wondered if D-Lactic acidosis and other Bacterial Overgrowth's may be due not only to selection through Antibiotic Resistance but also possible Overgrowth due to Viral causes in reproducing within the Host Bacteria which usually remain as part of a balanced symbiosis).

Reports below;

1. Diarrhea is a rare symptom of COVID-19, but gastrointestinal symptoms like nausea and diarrhea could be early clues of infection, a growing body of preliminary research has found. It's also a symptom mostly unique to people with COVID-19 and some children with the flu.

Still, the overlap between symptoms of COVID-19 and those of other common conditions is in part why widespread testing is necessary.

2. Crossing barriers: infections of the lung and the gut
Mucosal Immunology volume 2, pages100–102(2009)Cite this article
Abstract
Although known as respiratory pathogens, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and its sister coronaviruses frequently cause enteric symptoms. In addition, other classically non-enteric viruses (such as HIV and influenza) may also have enteric effects that are crucial in their pathogeneses. These effects can be due to direct infection of the gut mucosa, but can also be because of decreased antibacterial defenses, increased mucosal permeability, bacterial translocation, and systemic leak of endotoxin.
Coronavirus Colds and Enteritis
Molecular detection methods show that picornaviruses (rhinovirus and enterovirus) cause approximately 60% of common colds in older children and adults. The next most common are the coronaviruses, causing about 15% of colds. Human coronaviruses are classified genetically into three groups. One of the group 2 viruses, OC43, shows remarkable antigenic and genetic similarities to a common bovine coronavirus that probably first mutated and transmitted to man in the 1890s.1 Although now transmitted from person to person via the respiratory tract, OC43 causes gastrointestinal symptoms in up to 57% of infected people, along with various combinations of rhinitis (36.6%), pharyngitis (30%), and bronchitis or bronchiolitis (26.6%).2 Therefore, gastrointestinal symptoms can be as prominent as respiratory symptoms in coronavirus colds, often labeled “gastric flu”
In veterinary practice, coronaviruses are also notorious for causing infection of either the gut or lung and for sometimes moving between sites. Porcine transmissible gastroenteritis virus (TGEV) is a coronavirus related to the 229E strain of coronavirus (another cause of common colds in man). TGEV was a major cause of severe gastroenteritis in domesticated pigs, causing significant morbidity and mortality throughout worldwide.
However, in 1984 spontaneous deletions caused a new strain to emerge transmitted via the respiratory route and causing predominately upper respiratory symptoms, and often mild or inapparent infection. This new virus was sufficiently antigenetically similar to TGEV to cause cross-protection,3 so that the new strain virtually wiped out the parental strain. Therefore, the respiratory version of the coronavirus acted as a natural vaccine, eliminating TGEV as a significant veterinary problem.
SARS
When SARS broke out in the winter of 2002–2003, the world was gripped by a well-founded fear that it would become a lethal pandemic. The acronym resonated with the public, helping to focus attention not only on the virus but also on its transmissibility and global potential. The original animal reservoir of the SARS coronavirus appears to be wild bats, although it probably adapted to infect nocturnal pine civet cats before moving in to man.4 Although SARS was dubbed “respiratory” the virus was clearly not just a lung pathogen—it also affected the gut.
The emerging epidemic came to the attention of virologists when it began to spread in Hong Kong in early March 2002. One of the first major outbreaks was in a hospital, triggered by a “superspreading” event following the admission of a doctor who had acquired the infection while working with patients with atypical pneumonia in Guangdong Province of mainland China. In all, 70 hospital staff became infected in this one outbreak; this same index case apparently infected visitors to the hotel where the doctor stayed, one of whom flew to Hanoi, was admitted to hospital and there led to an outbreak in which 63 hospital staff were infected. Events in the same hotel probably led to the transmission of infection to Toronto, where a major outbreak also occurred.
The major community transmission in Hong Kong occurred in a tower block complex named Amoy Gardens. In this case, the evidence points to transmission from soil pipes and sewage which appears to have led to aerosolization of SARS coronavirus, and to inhalation and transmission to approximately 331 new individuals. This alarming ability to swop between being a respiratory and a gastrointestinal pathogen was one of the features made SARS so potentially devastating.
SARS was characterized by intense systemic symptoms and triggering of exuberant host immune responses.5 Detailed pathological studies showed that SARS coronavirus could infect not only the respiratory epithelium, but also surface enterocytes in the small bowel. Although infection caused diffuse alveolar damage, the changes in the gut are more subtle6 and might include an increase in intestinal permeability to lipopolysaccharide (LPS) and transmigration of intestinal bacteria (Figure 1c).
Figure 1

Alternative mechanisms of mucosal viral–bacterial interactions. (a) In the normal gut, intestinal flora are kept from invasion by the intact mucosa, even in the follicle-associated epithelium that specializes in transportation of antigen into the Peyer's patch. (b) If the submucosal lymphoid tissue is damaged by infection (e.g., with HIV11), the mucosa becomes permeable to bacteria and to bacterial products. Translocation of bacteria and bacterial products from the intestinal lumen cause systemic innate stimulation, leading to malaise and other systemic symptoms. (c) If a virus is tropic for the intestinal epithelial cells, it causes cell damage and loosens the normally impermeable barrier that keeps bacteria in the intestinal lumen.
PowerPoint slide
Full size image
Remarkably, the onset of diarrhea in SARS infected patients usually peaked on days 4–9, by which time the fever had subsided. However, the coronavirus copy number in some studies showed an increase between day 5 and day 10, so that maximal infectivity followed the fever,7 leading perhaps to a false sense of security amongst those caring for SARS patients. Although virus copy number in the pharyngeal aspirates dropped significantly between days 10 and 15, many patients still had SARS coronavirus present in the stool at day 21, by which time under 50% had virus present in the nasopharyngeal aspirate. Therefore, late transmission by contact with stool was a particular unappreciated risk.
Interactions Between Viruses and Bacteria
Infection with porcine respiratory coronavirus or porcine reproductive and respiratory syndrome virus has a synergistic effect with bacterial products, demonstrated by enhanced inflammation induced by LPS from Escherichia coli. LPS caused potentiation of disease, with enhanced production of tumor necrosis factor, interleukin-1, and interleukin-6.8
It has been known for many years that healthy people often carry pathogenic bacteria (such as Neisseria meningitides or Streptococcus pneumoniae) in the upper respiratory tract, but may only develop invasive disease during coinfection with respiratory viruses. The reason for these interactions are incompletely understood, but intriguing recent study show that influenza and respiratory syndrome virus are both capable of causing a persistent inhibition of the innate response to bacterial superinfection, and therefore to increased bacterial replication and disease.9
Intestinal Effects of HIV Infection
Although dual tropism for both the lung and gut may be an obvious and clear reason to consider the gut in respiratory infection, links can also be more subtle and complex. HIV targets CD4-expressing T cells and macrophages, thereby leading to immunosuppression. However, the symptoms of progressive HIV infection sometimes include profound weight loss (“slim disease”), and evidence of systemic immune activation. Indeed, this immune activation may assist fresh infection by HIV of activated T cells, so enhancing the viral life cycle.
The reasons for this immune activation seems to include the fact that HIV infects intestinal mucosal lymphocytes, including those in the Peyer's patch and especially Th17 cells that normally keep bacteria in check10 (Figure 1b). This leads to enhanced gastrointestinal permeability to microbial products, causing increased levels of circulating LPS,11 further activating the innate and adaptive immune system. An additional intriguing possibility is that the distribution of FoxP3+ regulatory T cells is affected by HIV infection,12 and that the balance between proinflammatory and antiviral effects is disturbed13 thereby contributing to immune activation, malaise, and cachexia in HIV-infected patients.
Intestinal Infection by Influenza
Highly pathogenic strains of influenza also cause intense systemic symptoms, sometimes associated with gastrointestinal disease. In waterfowl, influenza is mostly an enteric pathogen, transmitted via the feces in the lakes and waterways, and efficiently transmitted to other birds feeding and breeding on the same water. When these viruses spread to man, viral replication can trigger hypercytokinaemia.14
It therefore seems possible that the gut (known to be susceptible to infection with highly pathogenic strains of influenza)15 might also become permeable to intestinal LPS in severe influenza infections (Figure 1c), or that bacterial translocation through the gut wall could contribute to systemic symptoms, cytokine release and circulatory collapse.
Conclusions
In the era of integrative systems biology and holistic medicine, it is not only timely but also essential to view the gut and the lung as a continuous surface with distinct but overlapping susceptibilities. In addition, viral and bacterial infections should not be regarded as isolated events but viewed both in the context of intercurrent infection and of previous infection history. Studies of single infections are certainly revealing, but in reality the secret to understanding variations in responses to infections must include an awareness of what else is present on a rich polymicrobial landscape.

Brewer's yeast is a kind of yeast that is a by-product of brewing beer. Dietary supplements containing brewer's yeast often contain non-living, dried yeast. People use brewer's yeast to make medicine.

Brewer's yeast is taken by mouth for respiratory problems, including the common cold and other upper respiratory tract infections, influenza, seasonal allergies, and swine flu. Brewer's yeast is also taken by mouth for diarrhea, swelling of the colon (colitis) due to the bacteria Clostridium difficile, high cholesterol, loss of appetite, acne, premenstrual syndrome (PMS), recurring boils on the skin (furunculosis), type 2 diabetes and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). It has also been used as a source of B vitamins, chromium, and protein.

How does it work?
Due to the chromium content of brewer's yeast, there is interest in using it for lowering blood glucose in people with diabetes. Chromium may help the body use insulin more effectively. This can lower blood sugar levels.

Additionally, brewer's yeast seems to increase enzymes in the intestine that could help relieve diarrhea.

Brewer's yeast might help fight bacteria that cause infections in the intestine and improve the body's defenses against viral lung infections such as flu and the common cold.
 

Hip

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I am getting ready for the Coronavirus because the fools in Cheltenham UK are holding the Cheltenham Races which regularly brings in 250.000 people to my town, which will host one of the biggest Coronavirus incubation's in history when the punters hit the pubs and clubs.
At the moment, there are only around 500 SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus cases in the UK, and with a population of 66 million, that means only one person in every 132,00 is infected. So very few infected will be present in this event, maybe only one or two, if that.
 

pamojja

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I have not yet seen any results from the Chinese clinical trials of IV vitamin C for coronavirus, which is strange. Given that China has had 80,000 cases to work with, you would have thought some results would be in by now.
IV vitamin C is at least already mentioned at:

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/bF2YhJKiOfe1yimBc4XwOA

Expert consensus on comprehensive treatment of coronavirus disease in Shanghai 2019
Shanghai Medical Association 1 week ago
[Editor's note]​
On March 1st, the Chinese Journal of Infectious Diseases, which was hosted by the Shanghai Medical Association, pre-published the "Expert Consensus on Comprehensive Treatment of Coronavirus in Shanghai 2019" (http://rs.yiigle.com/m/yufabiao/1183266 .htm), which has attracted widespread attention in the industry. Shanghai TV also reported on the news last night. This consensus was reached by 30 experts representing the strongest medical force for the treatment of new-type coronavirus pneumonia in Shanghai. Through the study and summary of more than 300 clinical patients, and fully learning from the treatment experience of colleagues at home and abroad, the "Shanghai Plan" was finally formed. At the end of the article, the list of 30 subject experts (18 writing experts and 12 consulting experts) from various medical institutions in Shanghai is attached.​
translated with google and attached as .pdf

Well worth reading, since Shanghai had only 346 confirmed cases, 324 already recovered, 19 active and only 3 deaths.
 

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Wally

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I have not yet seen any results from the Chinese clinical trials of IV vitamin C for coronavirus, which is strange. The trial you linked to was started a month ago. Given that China has had 80,000 cases to work with, you would have thought some results would be in by now.
@Hip - See the linked video below at minute marker 1:25, video published on 3/5/2020.. Dr. Cheng states that he had a conversation with the principal investigator of this trial and the investigator told him that
. . . preliminary results look promising . . . shows significant reduction in inflammation . . .
 

Wally

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For those not following on the thread titled anti-virals effective against the coronavirus located here - https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/antivirals-effective-against-coronavirus.79014/ . There have been many posts about Vitamin C including posts about China’s Vitamin C trials that you might be interested in reviewing. Dr. Cheng, an American doctor, visiting in China (Shanghai), since the third week in January 2020, has been attempting to post video updates on his Youtube Channel about his conversations with healthcare providers, researchers and patients located within China about the virus and Vitamin C. Some of the videos had been removed by Youtube, but it appears that a number (if not all) are back up on his channel.

Linking all the videos from his channel that are available as of 3/13/2020. I am linking them in the chronological order that they were uploaded on his channel.

Published on 2/17/2020

Published on 2/21/2020

Published on 3/5/2020

Published on 3/5/2020

Published on 3/5/2020

https://youtu.be/QvXpgY8scqw
Published on 3/13/2020 - *note Dr, Cheng’s comment in the comment section of the video states that an incorrect Vitamin C dose appears in the video. Dose was suppose to have appeared on the video as 5000 to 10,000 milligrams or 5 to 10 grams

*Edit
 
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Prevention and treatment of cytokine storm: large doses of vitamin C and unfractionated heparin are recommended. Large doses of vitamin C are injected intravenously at a dose of 100 to 200 mg / kg per day.
For my weight the maximum dose would be 16g a day. I've consumed 12g a day, by mouth, of buffered C before.

I don't have much confidence that I could convince local physicians of the efficacy of IV Vitamin C. But I'm gonna push bowel tolerance at the first signs of infection. :D
 

pamojja

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Since I failed to get tested with symptoms of a severe cold after coming back from vacations in India. I considered the instruction of titrating to bowel-tolerance also useful for possibly being diagnostic. For example: if reached that for severe pneumonia (ie. 200+ g/d of ascorbic acid - my 'normal' bowel-tolerance is at 50 g/d,probably due to hayfever).

I failed badly to even reach my bowel-tolerance after 6 days of trying. Taking a teaspoon of ascorbic acid in water every 20 minutes is really challenging, even for me who used the last 11 years in average 24 g/d of ascorbic acid as part of Pauling's therapy. The most I got to was 62 g one day (in avg. 54 g/d the last 6 days) - still without any liquid stool. But I will keep on trying. By now I'm certain I 'only' got a severe cold, seemingly confirmed by the table in above linked bowel-tolerance article. And guess I anyway would have mentioned a viral pneumonia by now.

However, that high doses have kept all symptoms of my severe cold at bay for the last 6 days. Less the few hours I was out and about, and missed the doses for those hours. Starting to cough again.
 

Wally

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@pamojja - I am trying out liposomal Vitamin C from LivOn for myself and some family members. Just started taking 1 gram a day (may move that up to 3 to 5 grams per day). I also have a large quantity of liposomal Vit C and sodium ascorbate powder to mix and match should I want to try taking even higher doses of Vit C.

The study that you posted about in this thread - https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/vitamin-c-liposomal-or-not.56383/page-3#post-2194549 , discussed bowel intolerance when healthy individuals took 36 grams of Liposomal Vit C, but not at 20 grams. The study investigators believe that dividing up the large doses of liposomal Vit C could reduce the chance of experiencing bowel intolerance. It would be interesting to see if a dose of say 60+grams, taken in divided doses of approx. 20 grams at 5 to 8 hours intervals, would allow for the high dose to be tolerated without experiencing any bowel intolerance. Using the LivOn liposomal Vit C at 60 grams a day would cost approx. $60..

The average cost of IV Vitamin C infusions in the area where I live is approximately $250. Of course, the powdered ascorbate acid taken orally is the most economical form of taking Vit C. But for ease of use, the liposomal Vit C has been the easiest to take just because you can gulp it down in one swallow (I take it with a shot glass of juice because any product that lingers on my tongue tastes pretty nasty),. I also wanted to try the liposomal Vit C to see if this would prevent any G.I. discomfort that might be caused if very high doses were used.

Do you know if a large doses of IV Vit C (50 grams to 200+ grams) given over a short period of time can cause symptoms of bowel intolerance? I have not seen any information about high dose IV Vit C causing bowel intolerance. So, I was wondering if this is because the dose is usually delivered over a longer period of time and/or it is usually only given to someone who is very ill and for some reason in that state of illness it will not cause a lower G.I. reaction?

In the China Vit C study they are giving 12 grams twice a day by IV.. I wonder how fast the 12 grams will be delivered? For instance will it be given over a 12 hour period or a shorter period of time? Trying to gauge what might be the optimal time period to try to divide doses of either powdered sodium ascorbate or the liposomal form.

The ME/CFS community would be an interesting group of patients to follow to see how different subgroups might be effected by the coronavirus. (I fall into the EBV/HHV-6//enterovirus subgroup.). I do plan to keep track of my family’s supplemental Vit C intake during the next 3 months. It may not have any impact on prevention of an infectious illness such as COVID-19,, but if we do come down with any type of viral or bacterial infection during this time period, it will be interesting to see if symptom relief can be effected by increasing the daily dose.
 

pamojja

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It would be interesting to see if a dose of say 60+grams, taken in divided doses of approx. 20 grams at 5 to 8 hours intervals, would allow for the high dose to be tolerated without experiencing any bowel intolerance.
Well, thats what I took the last 6 days without any side-effects or bowel intolerance! (ok. admittedly some monster farts, but without distention or flatulence, and while 'socially distancing', of course). But everyone has different tolerances. Increasing greatly with a condition, like for me now with a severe cold.

Using the LivOn liposomal Vit C at 60 grams a day would cost approx. $60..
60g x 30days = 1.8kg = $1800,- a month? Not sustainable! I just paid €16,- for the same weight of pure ascorbic acid. Also absolutely not neccessary to waste so much money. A recent study by Dr. Levy even showed that equal amounts of regular oral sodium ascorbat compared to liposomal produced equal serum levels, same with intracellular levels. Where only the area under the curve was 50% higher with liposomal. https://isom.ca/article/the-levels-...ion-taken-without-and-with-iv-hydrocortisone/

Levy still maintains liposomal would be 10 times more effective, merely on account of speculating liposomal would enter cells without energy-demand. But not based on any studies, and he is still paid consultant of LivOnLabs liposomal vitamin C. The infact more than 100 times higher price for liposomal must really pay off.

Do you know if a large doses of IV Vit C (50 grams to 200+ grams) given over a short period of time can cause symptoms of bowel intolerance?
On the contrary. IV vitamin C (always in the form of sodium ascorbate!) does increase bowel-tolerance. Therefore most Vit-C IV docs recommend to take higher amounts of oral ascorbic acid along with the IV. Only stopping shortly before the end of the drip. When bowel-tolerance suddenly drops again. IV-vitamin C doesn't cause bowel intolerance, since it never even touches the bowels, but is straight delivered to the vains. And from there saturates cells and tissues first.

it will be interesting to see if symptom relief can be effected by increasing the daily dose.
It just showed in my trial of the last 6 day of titration. You don't have to waste that much money though, with sodium ascorbate (5 times more expensive where I life) or liposomal (out of a ordinary human's financials reach).


Code:
                               GRAMS ASCORBIC ACID      NUMBER OF DOSES     

CONDITION                  PER 24 HOURS           PER 24 HOURS

normal                       4 -  15              4 -  6

mild cold                   30 -  60              6 - 10

severe cold                 60 - 100+             8 - 15

influenza                  100 - 150              8 - 20

ECHO, coxsackievirus       100 - 150              8 - 20

mononucleosis              150 - 200+            12 - 25

viral pneumonia            100 - 200+            12 - 25

hay fever, asthma           15 -  50              4 -  8

environmental and                                       

food allergy              0.5 -  50              4 -  8

burn, injury, surgery       25 - 150+             6 - 20

anxiety, exercise and                                   

other mild stresses        15 -  25              4 -  6

cancer                      15 - 100              4 - 15

ankylosing spondylitis      15 - 100              4 - 15

Reiter's syndrome           15 -  60              4 - 10

acute anterior uveitis      30 - 100              4 - 15

rheumatoid arthritis        15 - 100              4 - 15

bacterial infections        30 - 200+            10 - 25

infectious hepatitis        30 - 100              6 - 15

candidiasis                 15 - 200+             6 - 25
 

Wally

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3/19/2020 - Update from China (via Dr. Cheng’s Youtube Channel) re *high dose IV Vitamin C. Results continue to look positive. *Note this report is not for the clinical trial, but is a report by a treating physician iof hospitalized patients (diagnosed with COVID-19) at one of the largest hospitals in Shanghai, China.


@Hip, @Wayne

Edit - Dr. Cheng’s video has a link to a survey/questionnaire re Vitamin C. See, https://www.wjx.cn/m/65273635.aspx
 
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This article may be reprinted free of charge provided 1) that there is clear attribution to the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, and 2) that both the OMNS free subscription link http://orthomolecular.org/subscribe.html and also the OMNS archive link http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml are included.


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, Mar 18, 2020

Successful High-Dose Vitamin C Treatment of Patients with Serious and Critical COVID-19 Infection
by Richard Cheng, MD, PhD
(OMNS Mar 18, 2020) A group of medical doctors, healthcare providers and scientists met online March 17, 2020, to discuss the use of high dose intravenous vitamin C (IVC) in the treatment of moderate to severe cases of Covid-19 patients. The key guest was Dr. Enqian Mao, chief of emergency medicine department at Ruijin Hospital, a major hospital in Shanghai, affiliated with the Joatong University College of Medicine. Dr. Mao is also a member of the Senior Expert Team at the Shanghai Public Health Center, where all Covid-19 patients have been treated. In addition, Dr. Mao co-authored the Shanghhai Guidelines for the Treatment of Covid-19 Infection, an official document endorsed by the Shanghai Medical Association and the Shanghai city government. [1]

Dr. Mao has been using high-dose dose IVC to treat patients with acute pancreatitis, sepsis, surgical wound healing and other medical conditions for over 10 years. When Covid-19 broke out, he and other experts thought of vitamin C and recommended IVC for the treatment of moderate to severe cases of Covid-19 patients. The recommendation was accepted early in the epidemic by the Shanghai Expert Team. All serious or critically ill Covid-19 patients in the Shanghai area were treated in Shanghai Public Health Center, for a total of 358 Covid-19 patients as of March 17th, 2020.

Dr. Mao stated that his group treated ~50 cases of moderate to severe cases of Covid-19 infection with high dose IVC. The IVC dosing was in the range of 10,000 mg - 20,000 mg a day for 7-10 days, with 10,000 mg for moderate cases and 20,000 for more severe cases, determined by pulmonary status (mostly the oxygenation index) and coagulation status. All patients who received IVC improved and there was no mortality. Compared to the average of a 30-day hospital stay for all Covid-19 patients, those patients who received high dose IVC had a hospital stay about 3-5 days shorter than the overall patients. Dr. Mao discussed one severe case in particular who was deteriorating rapidly. He gave a bolus of 50,000 mg IVC over a period of 4 hours. The patient's pulmonary (oxygenation index) status stabilized and improved as the critical care team watched in real time. There were no side effects reported from any of the cases treated with high dose IVC.

Among the international experts who attended today's video conference were: Dr. Atsuo Yanagisawa, formerly professor of medicine at the Kyorin University, Tokyo, Japan, and the president of the International Society for Orthomolecular Medicine; Dr. Jun Matsuyama of Japan; Dr. Michael J Gonzalez, professor at University of Puerto Rico Medical Sciences, Dr. Jean Drisko, professor of medicine, and Dr. Qi Chen, professor of pharmacology, both at the Kansas University Medical School, Dr. Alpha "Berry" Fowler, professor of pulmonary and critical care medicine, Virginia Commonwealth University, Dr. Maurice Beer and Asa Kitfield, both from NutriDrip and Integrative Medical NY, New York City; Dr. Hong Zhang of Beijing; William T. Penberthy, PhD of CME Scribe, Florida; Ilyes Baghli, MD, president of the Algerian Society of Nutrition and Orthomolecular Medicine (SANMO); Drs. Mignonne Mary and Charles Mary Jr, of the Remedy Room, New Orleans; Dr. Selvam Rengasamy, president of SAHAMM, Malaysia. I, Richard Cheng, MD, PhD of Cheng Integrative Health Center of South Carolina, and Senior Advisor to ShenZhen Medical Association and Shenzhen BaoAn Central Hospital, coordinated this conference.

Albeit a brief meeting of less than 45 minutes due to Dr. Mao's limited time availability, the audience thanked Dr. Mao for his time and sharing and wished to keep the communication channel open and also able to talk to other clinicians working at the front line against Covid-19.

In a separate meeting, I had the honor to talk to Sheng Wang, M.D., Ph.D., Professor of Critical Care Medicine of Shanghai 10th Hospital, Tongji University College of Medicine at Shanghai China, who also served at the Senior Clinical Expert Team of the Shanghai Covid-19 Control and Prevention Team. There are three lessons that we learned about this Covid-19 infection, Dr. Wang said:

1. Early and high-dose IVC is quite helpful in helping Covid-19 patients. The data is still being finalized and the formal papers will be submitted for publication as soon as they are complete.

2. Covid-19 patients appear to have a high rate of hyper-coagulability. Among the severe cases, ~40% severe cases showed hyper-coagulability, whereas the number among the mild to moderate cases were 15-20%. Heparin was used among those with coagulation issues.

3. The third important lesson learned is the importance for the healthcare team of gearing up to wear protective clothing at the earliest opportunity for intubation and other emergency rescue measures. We found that if we waited until a patient developed the full-blown signs for intubation, then got ready to intubate, we would lose the precious minutes. So the treatment team should lower the threshold for intubation, to allow proper time (~15 minutes or so) for the team to gear up. This critical 15-30 minutes could make a difference in the outcome.

Also, both Drs. Mao and Wang confirmed that there are other medical teams in other parts of the country who have been using high dose IVC treating Covid-19 patients.

For additional reporting and information on China's successful use of intravenous vitamin C against COVID-19:
 

overtheedge

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Do you guys, ( @Hip and any others who know their way around studies ), know of any treatments backed up by studies that are good in general against infections, coronavirus, cold, and flu for instance? I hear vitamin c and sometimes other antioxidants mentioned for this purpose but don't know if there is anything to that and at what kind of doses
 

Hip

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Wayne

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Others are learning from China:
Thanks much for posting @pamojja. Below is the introduction to the article:
By Lorena Mongelli and Bruce Golding - March 24, 2020 | 5:04pm | Updated
Seriously sick coronavirus patients in New York state’s largest hospital system are being given massive doses of vitamin C — based on promising reports that it’s helped people in hard-hit China, The Post has learned.​
Dr. Andrew G. Weber, a pulmonologist and critical-care specialist affiliated with two Northwell Health facilities on Long Island, said his intensive-care patients with the coronavirus immediately receive 1,500 milligrams of intravenous vitamin C. -- Identical amounts of the powerful antioxidant are then re-administered three or four times a day, he said.​
Each dose is more than 16 times the National Institutes of Health’s daily recommended dietary allowance of vitamin C, which is just 90 milligrams for adult men and 75 milligrams for adult women. -- The regimen is based on experimental treatments administered to people with the coronavirus in Shanghai, China, Weber said.​
“The patients who received vitamin C did significantly better than those who did not get vitamin C,” he said. -- “It helps a tremendous amount, but it is not highlighted because it’s not a sexy drug.”​
A spokesman for Northwell — which operates 23 hospitals, including Lenox Hill Hospital on Manhattan’s Upper East Side — said that vitamin C was being “widely used” as a coronavirus treatment throughout the system, but noted that medication protocols varied from patient to patient.​

So while some people might be given IV vitamin C, unfortunately we don't know at this stage if it helps.

:bang-head::bang-head::bang-head::eek::eek::eek:o_Oo_Oo_O:xeyes::xeyes::xeyes::jaw-drop::jaw-drop::jaw-drop::(:(:(:aghhh::aghhh::aghhh::headslap::headslap::headslap:
 

Hip

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“The patients who received vitamin C did significantly better than those who did not get vitamin C,” he said. -- “It helps a tremendous amount, but it is not highlighted because it’s not a sexy drug.”
You forgot to quote this bit:
The vitamin C is administered in addition to such medicines as the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, the antibiotic azithromycin, various biologics and blood thinners, Weber said.
So that makes it sound like patients are being given a whole raft of speculative treatments, not just vitamin C. Thus if the doctor anecdotally feels that patients given these treatments are doing better, then it cannot be put down to the vit C alone.

But where are the hard figures? If this doctor is administering these meds, doesn't have any data to offer? Like the death rates in the treated and untreated groups?
 
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