Coronavirus: what your country is doing, how you feel & general discussion

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Roy S

The lack of adequate testing in the US is inexcusable.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240379898465828868

OUCH !!!!

 

[Roy S]

Is there another thread this should also go in?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240477341740138497

 

[Roy S]

Other clever medical supply solutions hashtag-

https://twitter.com/hashtag/macgyvercare?src=hashtag_click

 

[rainbowbluebells]

For a reality check you could monitor http://www.euromomo.eu/slices/map_2017_2020.html, which reports weekly if there have been excess deaths.

Yes I’ve been checking the numbers every day. The deaths are doubling every two days. Which is a lot faster than some other countries. And this is due to government inaction.

Also in Italy, they are running out of morgue space so are putting bodies in churches and having to build morgues? And are having to take bodies to nearby towns and cities when they run out of space? And in the UK, morgues are being extended to deal with the number of more deaths that will come? I find it very unlikely that there are or will be no excess deaths this year. As this is on top of what people are dying from due to other conditions.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Is there another thread this should also go in?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240477341740138497

Yes !!!

Good call ... I'll be back in a sec with the link, hang on ....

@Inara started athread on self-made protective face masks. This will be PERFECT !!! I was trying to remember where I'd read about the anti-bactrial and possibly anti-viral fabric that's used to make surgical masks .... maybe it''ll be covered in your link ....

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/self-made-face-masks.79476/

 

[pamojja]

For a reality check you could monitor http://www.euromomo.eu/slices/map_2017_2020.html, which reports weekly if there have been excess deaths.

Yes I’ve been checking the numbers every day. The deaths are doubling every two days. Which is a lot faster than some other countries. And this is due to government inaction.

At that link you see week 10 (2nd to 8th of March, now 11 days ago) of 2020 in a map of Europe with NO excess mortality in any of the European countries indicated. At that time the mortality of Covid-19 in Italy already started spiking. But no increase on overall mortality in Italy at all during that week!

That could change soon. But till now I do have the hypothesis that all that usually causes of death during this time (heart attacks, cancer, car-accidents, etc.) now die of Corvid-19 instead, and thereby NOT at all increasing total mortality.

Or to you have other statistics, which do keep an eye on TOTAL MORTALITY EXCESS!

Other than only looking hypnotized on only Covid-19 mortality, without taking usual total mortality without any excess in consideration at all?

 

[rainbowbluebells]

@pamojja I have a feeling perhaps that the stats on it might change soon as the outbreak gathers pace in other countries in Europe now, as well as the US. But another thing to remember is that the impact of coronavirus is not just on death. It’s also the people spending weeks and months under intubation due to not being able to breathe on their own. It’s the pneumonia. It’s the long term lung scarring and damage that has occurred in individuals. It’s the fact that in many countries, all other operations have had to be stopped so even for people like me, I am unable to have a surgery that was urgently set up for me, because the wards are overrun by coronavirus and if I catch it after my surgery I could die. And doctors and nurses don’t know if they have it so they are passing it onto vulnerable patients who are undergoing chemotherapy, or people who are in for strokes and urgent care may not even get beds. In London our intensive care facilities are full now and we are only just into the outbreak.

And remember also. Yes it may look like the deaths are “small”. But this is with a HUGE worldwide lockdown, basically life completely grinding to a halt. If nothing had changed; and no social distancing no treatment etc this would have infected the worlds population by a few months leaving many many millions dead. So the perspective on this is, this IS a big deal.

 

[pamojja]

Of course there is widespread suffering all over the world. And of course we should do everything to ellaviate it as much as we can.

But spreading fear and panic from a total excess mortality, which hasn't manifested up to 11 days ago even in the worst hit place as Italy, is immetiately aggravating suffering! Please stop spreading unfounded fears.

 

[Roy S]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240521475217596416

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Of course there is widespread suffering all over the world. And of course we should do everything to ellaviate it as much as we can.

But spreading fear and panic from a total excess mortality, which hasn't manifested up to 11 days ago even in the worst hit place as Italy, is immetiately aggravating suffering! Please stop spreading unfounded fears.

I’m not spreading unfounded fears. If you have no interest in reading about it, I’m not sure why you’re reading my posts on this thread?

I know the situation that’s happening in London. I live there. I visited hospital recently.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

@Roy S



OUCH !!!!

Jeez. I have no idea why people do this. It’s terrible. They think as long as they don’t get it, or only get mild symptoms, it’s ok. But that’s not the case. They don’t realise even by being asymptomatic (or even when they have symptoms), they can spread it to others , who will then spread it to others etc..who would get very ill or might die. There seems to be no sense of responsibility at all, in those people.

I saw a similar video in the Uk - people in some gyms; saying the virus wasn’t so serious and they’ll just “take it on the chin” (exact same words our prime minister said).

 

[rainbowbluebells]

People in the UK are really confused right now. Because we have no clear plan from the govt as to what strategy we are even following. Some people think herd immunity, some people think suppression. We are definitely not following what Italy or China is doing, that’s for sure.

Yesterday we heard news that London would go into lockdown and some tube lines would be stopped. So people in London were panicking. And this morning lines outside supermarkets as people were panic buying (the shelves are still empty in lots of supermarkets) as they thought they’d be in lockdown. Now we hear through the news that there would be no restrictions on travelling in and out of London. So it’s not really a lockdown is it?

We always get news through people who act as unofficial govt spokespeople - so they’re not even held accountable for the press releases they say. Literally there doesn’t seem to be a proper plan. The govt does U turns and then says it’s following the science. So Im constantly anxious, watching the news, seeing if anything new is going to happen.. it’s quite funny as right now even the backbenchers of the Political Party that our PM is a part of, also are really angry with him.. and can’t believe we have not followed what the rest of Europe has done in terms of supporting workers during this crisis. And people from the opposite political party are also angry too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240591133060796419

 

[Roy S]

There are other stories of getting ventilators from outpatient and veterinary clinics as well as military and "obsolete" stockpiles.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240076083707490304

 

[pamojja]

I’m not spreading unfounded fears. If you have no interest in reading about it, I’m not sure why you’re reading my posts on this thread?

I know the situation that’s happening in London. I live there. I visited hospital recently.

If you say without any source - that total-mortality is in excess when it is not - then you're spreading unfounded fears.

I've very much interest about squashing irrational fears. Because first of all, you don't seem to be aware what disastrous health-effects this has on your endocrine and immune system - and finally mental health. And that of all others reading. I'm actively interested is quelling such self-harm, and by hintering its spread, harming all others.

Then as someone working in critical infrastructure, because of this unfounded fears I'm not allowed too! (PAD, COPD and T2D diagnosis - though all in remission - makes me appear specially at high risk) - And therefore certainly wont take your advise to remain silent about your contributions.

Last but not least, I do support all self-isolation meassure experiments, because this indeed could cause in fact a decrease of the major infectious diseases. In other and even this year, nobody gives a shit, or cares about:

1. Coronary Heart Disease: 8,727,670
2. Stroke: 6,221,072
3. Influenza and Pneumonia: 3,177,204
4. Lung Disease: 3,162,054
5. Lung Cancers: 1,683,893
6. Diabetes Mellitus: 1,570,100
7. Alzheimers/Dementia: 1,533,855
8. Diarrhoeal diseases: 1,388,418
9. Tuberculosis: 1,372,855
10. Road Traffic Accidents: 1,339,206

These are the major annual killers worldwide in order of their severity. Alone the hygiene meassurements could save 4 millions from the usual flu and tuberculosis infections alone. Trafic and flight pollution coming down could decrease a further 4 million in lung afflictions. Etc...

While the ecconomic downturn is completely unpredictible. Now it looks like sozialism is back even with the most conservatives. But in the long run unemployment and poverty, which are already now the major factor for infectious diseases, could make everything worse again.

What ever we do now. Let us not do it with fear from things not proven. Like a exceeding total mortality not existing anywhere.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

If you say without any source - that total-mortality is in excess when it is not - then you're spreading unfounded fears.

I've very much interest about squashing irrational fears. Because first of all, you don't seem to be aware what disastrous health-effects this has on your endocrine and immune system - and finally mental health. And that of all others reading. I'm actively interested is quelling such self-harm, and by hintering its spread, harming all others.

Then as someone working in critical infrastructure, because of this unfounded fears I'm not allowed too! (PAD, COPD and T2D diagnosis - though all in remission - makes me appear specially at high risk) - And therefore certainly wont take your advise to remain silent about your contributions.

Last but not least, I do support all self-isolation meassure experiments, because this indeed could cause in fact a decrease of the major infectious diseases. In other and even this year, nobody gives a shit, or cares about:



These are the major annual killers worldwide in order of their severity. Alone the hygiene meassurements could save 4 millions from the usual flu and tuberculosis infections alone. Trafic and flight pollution coming down could decrease a further 4 million in lung afflictions. Etc...

While the ecconomic downturn is completely unpredictible. Now it looks like sozialism is back even with the most conservatives. But in the long run unemployment and poverty, which are already now the major factor for infectious diseases, could make everything worse again.

What ever we do now. Let us not do it with fear from things not proven. Like a exceeding total mortality not existing anywhere.

When did I say “total mortality is in excess”? I have never claimed anything like that, I’ve never even looked at total mortality, until you sent me the link. I said I will be very sceptical if that continues to be the case, even as time goes on, with the outbreaks in other countries gathering momentum; and with the fact morgues are being built.

I said people are dying and doctors and nurses will die, due to govt inaction - this is true.
People are dying due to coronavirus, who wouldn’t have had to die, if the govt had got it’s act together - that’s true.
If the coronavirus situation hasn’t happened, then these people who had died from the coronavirus, wouldn’t have died right now from the coronavirus - obviously true.

Here in this country our country has a policy of herd immunity. This is true.

Please do not continue to say I am telling falsehoods when I am not, and tell me to stop what I’m posting and shut me down.

Im honestly not sure what your issue here is. I will continue to talk about what’s happening in my country, in my city, with our awful govt policies. If it is upsetting you, and it is affecting your health, that’s fine, and that’s understandable, because it is a very upsetting topic and even I need time away from it sometimes, but you do not need to read it. I have not written a single untruth in any of my posts.

I also follow through social media: scientists, researchers, journalists at the leading papers in my country, ex-WHO officials, doctors in my country, and many of them are calling for the same thing and talking about the same things as I am.

 

[pamojja]

I have not written a single untruth in any of my posts.

When you replyed:

Yes I’ve been checking the numbers every day. The deaths are doubling every two days. Which is a lot faster than some other countries. And this is due to government inaction.

Upon my assurance there isn't yet any excess mortality at all:

For a reality check you could monitor http://www.euromomo.eu/slices/map_2017_2020.html, which reports weekly if there have been excess deaths.

It made the impression you did carefully check for excess total mortality!

But thanks for that clarification now. And I will of couse engage you in future clarifications, if you aren't careful to not give such misleading impressions yourself. After all, being not allowed to work I have the time now to counter such maybe unintentional but counterproductive panic spreading

 

[rainbowbluebells]

When you replyed:


Upon my assurance there isn't yet any excess mortality at all:


It made the impression you did carefully check for excess total mortality!

But thanks for that clarification now. And I will of couse engage you in future clarifications, if you aren't careful to not give such misleading impressions yourself. After all, being not allowed to work I have the time now to counter such maybe unintentional but counterproductive panic spreading

I was talking about the numbers of people dying in the UK, from the coronavirus. That is doubling every 2 days. I wasn’t referring to the link. I said “yes I’ve been checking the numbers every day”, because before that you had written, “for a reality check, you can see this link..”, and so I was replying in general, yes I have seen numbers, and I was referring to total numbers of deaths from coronavirus.

The excess mortality, while it is interesting, doesn’t have any bearing on my feelings about coronavirus, and I didn’t feel it really helped to bring any perspective to me: as I said in another post, from my perspective, the situation IS big.

 

[pamojja]

For me in the possition having experienced remission with natural medicines and life-style intervention, the major killer of CVD and stroke is the biggest.

Through having had pneumonia at birth, treaded with tetracycline injections not done to new-born anymore, because it causes calk-teeth - as it did in me with only 12 teeth left at age 28 - ist the second biggest. By its inclusion of the corona-viruses family also being contributed to by COVID-19.

Since pneumonia at birth is a huge risk factor for COPD, again already in remission in me with natural medicines, lung-diseases and cancer is the third and fourth.

T2D in control with diet and natural medicines in my case the fifth and so on. Almost as reflected in the extent as how many people are unneccessarily killed by these major afflictions every year.

1. Coronary Heart Disease: 8,727,670
2. Stroke: 6,221,072
3. Influenza and Pneumonia: 3,177,204
4. Lung Disease: 3,162,054
5. Lung Cancers: 1,683,893
6. Diabetes Mellitus: 1,570,100
7. Alzheimers/Dementia: 1,533,855
8. Diarrhoeal diseases: 1,388,418
9. Tuberculosis: 1,372,855
10. Road Traffic Accidents: 1,339,206

as I said in another post, from my perspective, the situation IS big.

You're entitled to your opinion. But from a bigger perspective untill now, COVID-19 is not even a blip. The meassurements will however have unforeseeable consquences for years to come. Which in part I even do welcome. But please, without the missplaced panic. Millions of people have been dying needlessly every year before, and nobody really cares about even today.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

I know your feelings on this matter - we’ve talked about it before. But keep in mind this is a coronavirus thread. And the title and my first posts of the thread are about what your govts are doing, how you’re feeling about it and so on. So I am feeling panicky. and I am talking about what my govt is doing. That’s literally what the thread is about.

The situation with coronavirus is unique. For example, with heart attacks and cancer, whole wards don’t get closed down and all other operations and appts don’t get cancelled, doctors and nurses don’t have to live apart from their families because they might infect them, schools don’t get closed and work shut down...this is a something else. So we are free to discuss this. Yes many people dont care about the other deaths, I agree. But how do you know I personally don’t care? Especially about things like road accidents? I used to be involved in political work to try to make roads safer, before I got ill. I try to keep up to date with Alzheimer’s and cancer research as I know someone with it. Yes those things happen, they need more funding and help and awareness, but that doesn’t detract from what’s going on here.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240634013959761921