Coronavirus: what your country is doing, how you feel & general discussion

[Inara]

Woah, maybe they'll force vaccines on us in the future...

Here is more information about a COVID-19 vaccine on the Virology blog, i.e. much better than my ramblings:
http://www.virology.ws/2020/03/11/sars-cov-2-the-vaccine-landscape/

 

[Inara]

I'd be very interested about your opinions about this doctor's claim:

I'd be interested in arguments that confirm or contradict his claim.

Here's what the virology blog writes about the origin of COVID-19
http://www.virology.ws/2020/01/09/a-new-coronavirus-causing-respiratory-disease-in-china/

The government in Wuhan, China confirmed on 31 December that dozens of cases of pneumonia of unknown cause were being treated in that city. Pneumonia can be caused by viruses (e.g. influenza virus) and bacteria (e.g. Streptococcus pneumonia). These patients had high fever, difficulty breathing, and lesions in their lungs. No deaths have been reported. SARS and MERS coronaviruses, avian influenza viruses, and adenovirus have been ruled out as causative agents of the disease.

I therefore personally view the doctor's argument "They found a new virus, but actually didn't know if these patients really died from it" as disproved.

But:

A scientist leading the investigation of the new agent, Xu Jianguo, has announced that on 7 January 2020 a new coronavirus was identified. Apparently the virus was isolated from a patient and the entire genome sequence obtained. On ProMedMail he is quoted as saying “A total of 15 positive results of the new coronavirus were detected by nucleic acid detection methods” which I presume to be PCR. However it is not clear if this statement means that 15 patients have tested positive for this virus.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Remember I posted pictures of that massive gathering in the UK last week?

Well..

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-ne...theyve-21713032.amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Coronavirus Invades the brainstem, causing respiratory failure/central apnea

The damage to the lungs, and the ultimate respiratory failure, is fairly independent of the invasion of the brain stem, CNS, etc. The virus, being airborne, goes straight to the lungs that inhales the viral shedding, where it saws thru them with alarming speed, creating the signature 'ground glass' patterns on an Xray or MRI and the subsequent respiratory failure.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

I’m still really scared that nothing has been closed down here.
Our PM has only suggested to people to “avoid” pubs
My boyfriend reports London is very busy still, and I saw pictures of rush hour and the tubes are heaving with people.

We are already I think at the point , further past the point actually , when Italy realised something was wrong and had closed everything and locked down. Yet we still haven’t. That means our deaths are going to be much worse than Italy’s in a couple of weeks time. We are not testing people so the cases aren’t the true figure - but the deaths should be. So right now we can only rely on the death rates to tell a true story of what’s going on.

And remember we have one of the lowest intensive care beds in Europe.

this is from 2012. since then we’ve lost 17,000 more beds. So it will be even worse than this now. Germany has 500% the number of critical care beds per person that we have.

People are still going to cafes and restaurants and into work and on public transport everywhere. When I went out yesterday there were so many cars in the road.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240187007088852998

deaths are doubling every two days at the moment. So 32 people died today. And still life is carrying on mostly as normal.

does Boris Johnson want to kill us? All the doctors; nurses, the ill, the elderly, the ones with conditions either underlying or chronic? I’m getting more and more scared every day. Tomorrow there may be another 40 or 50.
We have 100 people dead now. I think Italy locked down when death toll was under 50.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I am totally not against vaccines, but I am against unreasonableness. To me, testing a vaccine directly on humans seems unreasonable having in mind that the probability is not so small that it won't help at all, i.e. risk and benefit don't seem to have a good ratio, and to me that doesn't justify the risk that is put on humans here.

Totally agree. Sadly, no one in a position to make a difference will.

I just think it is made the impression that a vaccine will be the rescuer (and of course, it will sell tremendously), while I don't see why that could be correct.

It's soooooo not correct. But, as above, tho
se in a position to call out the stupidity of that, won't.

Woah, maybe they'll force vaccines on us in the future...

Almost without a doubt. At least they'll try. I think that they, whoever 'they' are, should be forced to be the first to be vaccinated, and allow at least a year for side effects to present before it's forced on the general public.

That won;t happen, either. In fact, 'they'll' probably be the only ones who AREN'T forcibly vaccinated.

Im hoping whoever is doing the vaccines and testing it will be transparent about everything they’re doing and figure out all possible long term side effects.

.... 'cause they have been so often in the past?

In Japan we have a saying, there's no pill for stupid.

We have a similar saying over here: Rust never sleeps, steel don't heal, and stupid is forever ....

 

[Inara]

"Die Zeit" writes:

In England, the number of deaths from coronavirus rose by almost 50 percent to 99 within one day. This is communicated by the English health authorities.

https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2020-03/corona-pandemie-virus-covid-19-ausbreitung-live-blog

One has to keep in mind that UK doesn't test... (Germany doesn't really test, too.)

There are several critical voices here in Germany about the "exaggerated" measures which are being taken and the disastrous consequences for the economy. Some look jealously to UK: The UK will have an economic advantage, UK companies might even buy German smaller companies etc.

I agree about the consequences...but if you look to Italy...nobody really knows why this country is so severely affected...if you look to Italy, the economy would break down, too, I'd say.

At this point we cannot say for sure what would be more disastrous...a shutdown or UK's plan...doing nothing. We will see.

After reading the virology blog, I don't agree this virus is "normal" or even harmless. They started out like "this is a harmless virus" and changed that narrative over the time. No catastrophizing and no "such a deadly virus".

Sure, the world could have chosen UK's path...the economy probably would suffer less - or maybe not. We can't say. So why do the other countries go another way?

Honestly, I remain confused about whether this virus is especially dangerous or not. If I look to China, the official numbers aren't so catastrophic as models said - or are they?
If I look to Italy it's really bad.
The numbers in Germany aren't sky rocket high either at this point of time.
So confused...

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I agree about the consequences...but if you look to Italy...nobody really knows why this country is so severely affected...if you look to Italy, the economy would break down, too, I'd say.

I think the reason why Italy exploded with the virus is due to their highly public and enthusiastic pursuit of life in general. The evening pasageata comes to mind, where entire towns turn out in the early evening cool to stroll around, exchanging hugs, gossip, and chats for hours on end.

If I look to China, the official numbers aren't so catastrophic as models said - or are they?

I wouldn;t trust the 'official' Chinese numbers, which might be wildly underestimated for any number of reasons.

It is really confusing.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

"Die Zeit" writes:


https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2020-03/corona-pandemie-virus-covid-19-ausbreitung-live-blog

One has to keep in mind that UK doesn't test... (Germany doesn't really test, too.)

There are several critical voices here in Germany about the "exaggerated" measures which are being taken and the disastrous consequences for the economy. Some look jealously to UK: The UK will have an economic advantage, UK companies might even buy German smaller companies etc.

I agree about the consequences...but if you look to Italy...nobody really knows why this country is so severely affected...if you look to Italy, the economy would break down, too, I'd say.

At this point we cannot say for sure what would be more disastrous...a shutdown or UK's plan...doing nothing. We will see.

After reading the virology blog, I don't agree this virus is "normal" or even harmless. They started out like "this is a harmless virus" and changed that narrative over the time. No catastrophizing and no "such a deadly virus".

Sure, the world could have chosen UK's path...the economy probably would suffer less - or maybe not. We can't say. So why do the other countries go another way?

Honestly, I remain confused about whether this virus is especially dangerous or not. If I look to China, the official numbers aren't so catastrophic as models said - or are they?
If I look to Italy it's really bad.
The numbers in Germany aren't sky rocket high either at this point of time.
So confused...

I can only say what’s happening in the UK atm. I had to go into hospital yesterday, and the anesthesist I saw advised me against a relatively urgent operation I needed to have done, because of the coronavirus. It’s circulating in all our hospitals. Beds are being filled up. And has led to closure of all elective surgeries and procedures, my pain appt next week has to be conducted over the phone, and even GPs won’t see people any more face to face and only over the phone or video call. It’s brought the medical system to its knees. And anyone who ends up with any emergency problems - which will keep happening of course, may well be left to die. Or will pick up coronavirus on the wards.

I think this virus is dangerous. Not harmless at all. All the reports I’m hearing is it’s nothing like the flu. its a lot worse than the flu - even for healthy people.
Yes some people don’t have symptoms. I don’t really know what exactly that is. Something special in their immune system; some type of antibody?
But for other people - they suffer. And often for a long time. People left in intensive care for weeks and months when it goes severe, unable to breathe, needing intubation etc. So I would say definitely it’s more similar to SARS than the flu.

Trust me, Germany does not want to be like the UK. No one should be. I’ve seen the complete tiredness and fear and desperation on doctors faces now. I think this is nothing like they’ve seen before. This is at just 100 deaths. And soon the numbers are gonna get so much worse: that’s what I’m scared for. Without lockdown and the measures China, South Korea have taken and TESTING (of medical staff especially but also community as WHO says) - I don’t know where we will be soon.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@rainbowbluebells
We've all been left at the mercy of our govt's, composed largely of politicians whose primary interest is not their constituents. I exempt Germany from this, altho their response has also been .... kinda odd.

I agree .... this is a very serious virus, and should be responded to accordingly. Each of us will have to figure out, absent any other input from official sources, what that means to us, and act to protect ourselves and our loved ones the best way we can.

 

[ljimbo423]

Anybody heard why 80% of cases are mild and that children have mild, to very mild symptoms?

80% of cases are mild
Based on all 72,314 cases of COVID-19 confirmed, suspected, and asymptomatic cases in China as of February 11, a paper by the Chinese CCDC released on February 17 and published in the Chinese Journal of Epidemiology has found that:

• 80.9% of infections are mild (with flu-like symptoms) and can recover at home.
• 13.8% are severe, developing severe diseases including pneumonia and shortness of breath.
• 4.7% as critical and can include: respiratory failure, septic shock, and multi-organ failure.
• in about 2% of reported cases the virus is fatal.
• Risk of death increases the older you are.
• Relatively few cases are seen among children.

SOURCE

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Anybody heard why 80% of cases are mild and that children have mild, to very mild symptoms?

Maybe the melatonin theory?

Yesterday was a discussion that the younger immune system is "more creative" and can respond better to new things...than our older immune system.

 

[ShepherdK]

So I developed a dry cough on Friday that has gotten progressively worse. It's now deep, dry, and constant. Tightness in the chest, fatigue, and headaches started yesterday. The fatigue definitely isn't my typical ME/CFS fatigue - "wired but tired" - but instead is just an oppressive sleepiness. No fever. I thought it was allergies at first, but the lack of any sinus congestion with the worsening cough ruled that out.

Doctor said that I won't be able to get tested until: 1) I have a fever, and 2) can show that I had direct contact with a confirmed case. Wife has started showing the first signs of the same symptoms today.

I started some immune boosting supplements that tend to provoke my ME/CFS (reishi and yeast extract), and stopped taking curcumin. Surprisingly this hasn't triggered my ME/CFS at all over the last two days. Bronkaid (ephedrine+guaifenesin) seems to keep the cough and chest tightness to manageable levels.

 

[ljimbo423]

Doctor said that I won't be able to get tested until: 1) I have a fever, and 2) can show that I had direct contact with a confirmed case.

You might be interested in this-

HENRICO COUNTY, Va. (WRIC) — A pop-up testing site was set up Wednesday at Dorey Park in Henrico County in order to test people who have mild symptoms of the novel coronavirus but don’t meet the requirements to be tested through the state lab. The facility, organized by the Virginia Department of Health and Central Incident Management Team, is meant for people who have already been in contact with the health department, not the general public.

SOURCE

 

[Heartl]

@ShepherdK wishing you a speedy recovery. Please keep us updated.

 

[ShepherdK]

You might be interested in this-



SOURCE

THANK YOU!!! I had no idea. I'll call and see if I can get tested then.

 

[ljimbo423]

Maybe the melatonin theory?

Yesterday was a discussion that the younger immune system is "more creative" and can respond better to new things...than our older immune system.

From what I have read from the experts. You are basically saying the same thing.

 

[Inara]

So, maybe I now understand...

This article helped:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/c...mal-business-right-wrong-heres-why-2020-03-09

MAYBE the problem is not SARS-Cov-2 alone, but that right now we have influenza, H1N1 and other viruses, too? PLUS SARS-Cov-2 is brand new, while the human has known influenza for a long, long while?

 

[Inara]

Best wishes @ShepherdK for you and your wife! If possible, can you keep us updated?

P.S.: I don't get fevers anymore. I've had the flu the past 3 weeks, and my temperature actually dropped while feeling feverish and having night sweats.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Anybody heard why 80% of cases are mild and that children have mild, to very mild symptoms?

SOURCE

Yes.

There's a thread on it, I'll come back and post a link in a minute.

The article, pooh-poohed good-naturedly by nonbelievers in anything not BigPharm, states that several studies have determined that it's because children produced HUGE amounts of melatonin (a hormone produced by the pineal gland that has more effects than just regulating the sleep/wake cycles) up until about age 10, at which point it starts to slowly decrease. And women in the late second or the third trimester of pregnancy also seem to escape the virus. Reason? They also produce huge amounts of melatonin.

Back in a flash with that link.

EDITED ..... for usual idiot ypos ... uh, typos ....