Coronavirus: what your country is doing, how you feel & general discussion

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Right now I just want Johnson to get on with it and do things properly.

Don't be waiting standing up. It could take a while .

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Don't be waiting standing up. It could take a while .

Yep.
So fed up, upset and angry.
And nurses and medical staff now being told surgical masks and gloves are enough to treat coronavirus patients.
chief scientific adviser on TV saying we need to be “proportionate” when discussing how much medical equipment doctors need.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1239902281333694464

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1239912257695424514

Disgusting behaviour from those who lead us in the UK. One of the richest countries in the world and cannot even invest in the health system.

 

[Inara]

Can somebody explain why a vaccine against viruses makes sense, having in mind that viruses mutate (different viruses mutate with different rates; corona and influenza viruses mutate faster) and the vaccine will always lag behind in time?

I.e. virus with DNA1 shows up.
Vaccine against DNA1 is produced one year later.
Then virus has mutated to DNA2.

I see that the vaccine against DNA1 will be helpful if DNA1 and DNA2 share similarities so that the existing antibodies against DNA1 will help against DNA2.

But in all other cases it's useless?

And a vaccine against DNA2 will take again a year, when DNA3 might be there.

So I don't get it...

 

[Inara]

Disgusting behaviour from those who lead us in the UK. One of the richest countries in the world and cannot even invest in the health system.

People will die, people in central positions, too, not only "worthless" lives. If everything falls apart let's see what they'll say. I find the UK behavior so obviously ridiculous - but I can't laugh. It's ridiculous because they propagate obviously incorrect, dumb information as serious truth. The ENTIRE world can't be wrong. Sometimes, indeed, if everybody else is approaching from the front, you might be the ghost driver.

I think they don't care about worthless lives...Governments are HAPPY if they have less people with pensions or other state payments. Governments want people who contribute to profit maximization. Great that there exist "natural disasters" that reduce the old and sick...
Cynisism.

I have a really bad feeling that the corona crisis will be used on the long run for other interests.

 

[Inara]

I'd be very interested about your opinions about this doctor's claim:

I'd be interested in arguments that confirm or contradict his claim.

 

[frozenborderline]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.25728
Coronavirus Invades the brainstem, causing respiratory failure/central apnea... meaning it could be more of a problem for people with cci or me/cfs in general
@Hip

 

[Hip]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmv.25728
Coronavirus Invades the brainstem, causing respiratory failure/central apnea... meaning it could be more of a problem for people with cci or me/cfs in general
@Hip

I saw that paper. SARS can infect the brainstem, but I'm not sure if we know yet whether SARS-CoV-2 can do this.

I think the ability of SARS to infect the brainstem could explain why there were many cases of a chronic ME/CFS-like disease appearing in the SARS survivors (known as chronic post-SARS syndrome). The brainstem is implicated in ME/CFS.


There's also the occassional reports of the SARS-CoV-2 virus reactivating in some patients, which suggests this virus is capable of creating lingering infections in some people. I wonder if that might create a chronic illness?

 

[Wally]

@Inara - Not sure if you have seen this thread at https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...ovel-coronavirus-covid-19.79428/#post-2263195

I am personally concerned with the frenzy that seems to have been created in the race to develop a vaccine for COVID-19. The thread linked above was created, so people would be aware of what is happening with vaccine development and research for the novel coronavirus. The video in that thread (post/reply no.3) identifies some concerns that well known vaccine proponents (physicians/researchers) have about the time frame that will be allowed for safety and efficacy studies, especially because of the complexity of this particular virus.

I also don’t know if people understand that the first vaccine out the door for human trials is not being developed using traditional techniques. The “Moderna”vaccine which the NIH is a partner in developing, is a new type of vaccine that centers around messenger RNA.

The technology that has allowed Moderna to craft an experimental vaccine so fast has not yielded a single immunization that’s made it to market so far. It’s a trendy idea: Instead of injecting people with a weakened pathogen or proteins from the surface of a pathogen, so that our bodies will learn to fight off such infections in the future, scientists are betting on a kind of genetic hack, a lab-made concoction that gets the body to produce its own virus-like bits which it will then train itself to combat.

At the center of it all is a molecule called messenger RNA, or mRNA. Inside of us, its normal function is to transmit the instructions contained within our DNA to the cellular protein-making factories that carry them out. In Moderna’s recipe, the mRNA is synthetic, programmed with the goal of getting our inner machinery to produce certain coronavirus-like proteins — the very proteins that the pathogen uses to gain entry into our cells. Once those homemade dummy virus particles are there, the thinking goes, our bodies will learn to recognize and clobber the real thing.

The method’s greatest advantage is its speed. . . .

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11...s-vaccine-trial-without-usual-animal-testing/

In theory this sounds like it could be a good thing when faced with a virus that is very virulent and fast spreading. But how will we know if this new technology will be safe not just a year or two from now, but what about over a much longer period time? As far as I am aware there is no new technology to be able to remove or deactivate what a vaccine deposits or re-codes inside of your body.

Legislation to “mandate” vaccine use is a hot topic right now and I would be concerned if fear drives this or another new vaccine on to a mandatory vaccine list without a lot more public discussion. History has shown that what may first look like a great new vaccine product, introduced to the world with great optimism and hubris, does not always look so wonderful as time goes by.

 

[Tammy]

Legislation to “mandate” vaccine use is a hot topic right now and I would be concerned if fear drives this or another new vaccine on to a mandatory vaccine list without a lot more public discussion. History has shown that what may first look like a great new vaccine product, introduced to the world with great optimism and hubris, does not always look so wonderful as time goes by.

Feel the same

 

[pamojja]

I'd be very interested about your opinions about this doctor's claim:

I'd be interested in arguments that confirm or contradict his claim.

Just did a quick and rough calculation.

Total populations: https://www.laenderdaten.de/bevoelkerung/einwohner.aspx
Flu and pneumonia mortality (2017) per 100000: https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/
Covid-19 mortality: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

For a fast calculation divided the yearly usual flu mortality into 4 = the 3 months this 'epidemic' exist. And compared it to the actual mortality from this alledgedly new virus:

The only epidemic till today seems to be happening in Italy. But if Italy just drew the bad luck this year, as the UK did in 2017 with 23.01 flu-deaths per 100000, then still nothing out of the ordinary. Soon we'll know.

 

[Roy S]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240031436004118541

 

[Inara]

I also don’t know if people understand that the first vaccine out the door for human trials is not being developed using traditional techniques. The “Moderna”vaccine which the NIH is a partner in developing, is a new type of vaccine that centers around messenger RNA.

I know there are several companies worldwide working on a vaccine. In a post above someone linked to a trial that was started some days ago, testing a new vaccine on humans.

I share concerns, especially also re. usage of mRNA, but sadly I don't know enough to substantiate these concerns.

I am totally not against vaccines, but I am against unreasonableness. To me, testing a vaccine directly on humans seems unreasonable having in mind that the probability is not so small that it won't help at all, i.e. risk and benefit don't seem to have a good ratio, and to me that doesn't justify the risk that is put on humans here.

Also, in general, I find virus vaccines unreasonable (having in mind how viruses work, see above), but I simply may not understand something, so I am open to explanations and arguments pro and against it.

I just think it is made the impression that a vaccine will be the rescuer (and of course, it will sell tremendously), while I don't see why that could be correct.

And although I do not believe in a conspiracy here, let's not forget the money that pharma companies have made with vaccines in the past, e.g. the swine flu vaccine (that circulates right now, too, it seems; a friend was tested positive, and he developed pneumonia). They may think now their time has come...

 

[Inara]

For a fast calculation divided the yearly usual flu mortality into 4 = the 3 months this 'epidemic' exist. And compared it to the actual mortality from this alledgedly new virus:

Assuming the numbers are correct, which we know they aren't.

I find his arguments sound plausible, but he doesn't give proofs for his claims; except the point that there seems to be a certain "amount" of viruses in a human, and if one virus gets "killed" another takes its place (which makes sense, too). And this is a problem...

He's also right in saying we don't know how dangerous this new coronavirus is (we're observing), we have no comparisons (that is not a reason why a virus is not dangerous), and we actually don't know if these people die because of this coronavirus because they are not tested for other viruses (which is the best argument in my view). The reliability of the corona PCR test is a problem, too. I have 70% in my mind - on the other hand, isn't that the normal number you gind in other tests, too (like HIV test), so you need to repeat several times (what's not happening re. corona)?

Now, Drosten is a scientist, and I find it hard to believe he would "sell" sth of which he knows it might be "crap". And I think deveoping virus tests is a "standard" today?

Re. the swine flu, not everything was "kosher" there. But...we had the swine flu, and even if it's not the deadly virus, it's still the flu, i.e. not harmless.

Independently from his arguments, I already said above that I fear this situation will be used in the future to cut human rights...and to do other stuff.

 

[Inara]

Woah, maybe they'll force vaccines on us in the future...

 

[pamojja]

Independently from his arguments, I already said above that I fear this situation will be used in the future to cut human rights...and to do other stuff.

As the optimist and pragmatist I am. If it all comes out, how does everyone doesn't loose face?

My suggestion to all experts and politics: Make it appear it was an act of compassion, for this final act to curb the 3th leading cause of preventable deaths: 3,177,204 yearly deaths from influenzia and pneumonia. In fact increasing world-life expectancy, since this cause of death mostly concerns the elderly.

I already now do breath easier. Due to decrease of pollution since the shut-down started here..

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Thanks for the discussion on vaccines @Inara and @Wally . I do not know enough about vaccination and RNA’s to be able to give my view. But that’s interesting and Im hoping whoever is doing the vaccines and testing it will be transparent about everything they’re doing and figure out all possible long term side effects.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Meanwhile in the UK,
No one is testing GPs.
No one is testing doctors and nurses at the hospital.
No one is testing paramedics, or hospital staff.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240200758378676225

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240057043861594112

I was due to have a relatively urgent surgery next week. I’ve been advised not to go ahead with it because no one knows who is in infected without symptoms, my surgeon; my anesthesist, other doctors could all be infected. People are picking up coronavirus in hospital from other patients and doctors. People are dying even though they came into hospital with something else. Doctors nurses don’t have protective equipment. And not tested. It’s unbelievable.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

I received a delivery today from Sagawa. The driver was sneezing violently, coughing, and sniffling, without wearing a mask.

I'm trying to figure out how to find his manager, and kick him firmly in the nuts.

I washed my hands thoroughly, sprayed the package and the door with Pasteurizer 77. In Japan we have a saying, there's no pill for stupid.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

I received a delivery today from Sagawa. The driver was sneezing violently, coughing, and sniffling, without wearing a mask.

I'm trying to figure out how to find his manager, and kick him firmly in the nuts.

I washed my hands thoroughly, sprayed the package and the door with Pasteurizer 77. In Japan we have a saying, there's no pill for stupid.

oh my god
Why do people do this.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

People will die, people in central positions, too, not only "worthless" lives. If everything falls apart let's see what they'll say. I find the UK behavior so obviously ridiculous - but I can't laugh. It's ridiculous because they propagate obviously incorrect, dumb information as serious truth. The ENTIRE world can't be wrong. Sometimes, indeed, if everybody else is approaching from the front, you might be the ghost driver.

I think they don't care about worthless lives...Governments are HAPPY if they have less people with pensions or other state payments. Governments want people who contribute to profit maximization. Great that there exist "natural disasters" that reduce the old and sick...
Cynisism.

I have a really bad feeling that the corona crisis will be used on the long run for other interests.

This is how I feel as well. They won’t care. Until it hits them personally.