Coronavirus: what your country is doing, how you feel & general discussion

[rainbowbluebells]

That's something I don't really understand either; most probably something very human is behind that behavior: the assumption it won't hit me.

Yes but that doesn’t make sense either, because by not trying, they’re making sure that it probably will hit them; since it’s going to spread to 80% and kill many.

 

[Inara]

Yes but that doesn’t make sense either, because by not trying, they’re making sure that it probably will hit them; since it’s going to spread to 80% and kill many.

I mean before the coronavirus came to Europe, it was in China, and probably Europe simply assumed "it won't hit me - this is a Chinese problem". Then when it came to Italy the others still thought "This won't hit me" or "This won't be bad", i.e. they underestimated the problem in an irrational manner. (Irrational because there was knowledge about coronaviruses before this pandemic and from what happened in China, and because there is knowledge about this global world.)

 

[rainbowbluebells]

I mean before the coronavirus came to Europe, it was in China, and probably Europe simply assumed "it won't hit me - this is a Chinese problem". Then when it came to Italy the others still thought "This won't hit me" or "This won't be bad", i.e. they underestimated the problem in an irrational manner. (Irrational because there was knowledge about coronaviruses before this pandemic and from what happened in China, and because there is knowledge about this global world.)

Oh yes I see. Yeah that definitely was a problem. To be honest, even I was thinking it wouldn’t come to the UK very much( as I assumed our leaders would do something before it got too bad).
Problem is they were probably thinking the same thing!

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Seattle :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1239290389963714562

 

[ebethc]

I think they have figured out this will score them: a huge profit from the deaths. What if 1 out of 10 older folks..for instance...succomb? Thats quite a lovely profit to add to the bottom line.

It occurred to me that IF this was an engineered virus (and I don't think it is b/c it appears to be from bats), the GOP probably engineered it to get rid of the most "expensive" u.s. citizens and other "undesirables" i.e., vulnerable populations deplored by GOP = elderly (medicare/social security), immunocompromised*, prison populations**, people held at border**, etc. Just as I was musing about this (not seriously, but more out of morbid curiosity), a certain prominent, far right politician said the virus was engineered by the chinese ... the first thing I thought is that maybe my idea is not crazy after all b/c PROJECTION... ha!


* not sure current GOP can calculate the complex economics for the immunocompromised, ie, lots of expensive drugs (good for big pharma) BUT will surely bankrupt insurance companies as immune illnesses keep escalating... pharma is in a race to make as much $ as possible before gene therapy... who knows
** these ppl are managed by private companies mostly (not in california, Go Guv Newsom!) so I could be wrong about these populations... ie, they are profitable and therefore they ARE useful to GOP

disclaimer: not looking for an ideological debate; I loathe most politicians now. Just super curious about the Hunger Games geo-political machinations...

 

[Wayne]

I haven't been reading this thread, but thought I'd post something I found interesting. Apparently, If the Chinese would have started preventative measures only a week earlier, it's estimated the total infection number would have been 67% less in China. Also, apparently, between the first coronvirus cases in China, and the first coronavirus case in the U.S., 250,000 Chinese nationals had come to the U.S. to visit.

If the U.S. had responded much more appropriately when the virus first started showing up in this country, instead of wasting valuable weeks of downplaying the risks and not doing nearly enough on the ground, things wouldn't be nearly as severe as they are now. -- Below is a link to a 5-minute Fareed Zakaria video which gives a good description of those early timelines:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2020/03/14/exp-gps-0315-fareeds-take.cnn

 

[pattismith]

wonderful…. France made so many effort not to test people that the numbers are now under Spain and Germany. Trump cannot longer point his finger to Macron, what an achievement!

This morning on radio, and auditor wisely pointed that with such low confirmed cases numbers in our country, how french people could be aware of Corona as a really dangerous problem necessitating all the country blockage??
Good question!
NOBODY on TV is speaking about the real numbers....
How many serious suspected cases in hospitals needing emergency care??

The professor answer was that we have to multiply x 100 the ill people to have an idea of how many infected people we have already (with or without symptoms), ie 500 000 positive...

 

[ebethc]

@pattismith

did you see that the gov of ohio said that at least 100k ppl are infected, based on their state health dept's estimates?? the numbers are way under reported

 

[AnnieT]

Scotland have 170 .... waiting for that number to fly!

The UK doesn't seem to have a concentrated area ... it has really spread to all corners of the country.

I heard some one say multiply the reported numbers by 100.

 

[Inara]

Oh yes I see. Yeah that definitely was a problem. To be honest, even I was thinking it wouldn’t come to the UK very much( as I assumed our leaders would do something before it got too bad).
Problem is they were probably thinking the same thing!

I was traveling at that time via airplane, and tbh I was a bit concerned. I thought "People can travel from China to...you name it...and here are no tests or checks, i.e. those people maybe walk around you and could infect others." At that point I didn't know what symptoms a coronavirus infection might cause, I just thought it's maybe not so good that an infection can spread so freely.

Btw, I wasn't aware that the coronaviruses are RNA viruses.

 

[Bergkamp]

So our Prime Minister (Netherlands) just announced that we are also going down the herd immunity path. He said the old & weak in our country have tough times coming. Great.

I really really wonder how people with ME react to Covid-2. With the rate it's going at right now, it shouldn't be too long before a first case is reported, I guess.

 

[splusholia]

I have some more info regarding UK plan.

Martha Clokie and her department think the science behind UK is sound and they’re doing the right things. This was a private conversation but she’ll be doing a video q+a at some point for Agile Rabbit (Exeter organisation).

They’re drip feeding the public that essentially this is not just going to be a few weeks of disruption.

(I’m making no judgements. I’m not a Tory, just reporting what I hear!)

 

[rainbowbluebells]

So our Prime Minister (Netherlands) just announced that we are also going down the herd immunity path. He said the old & weak in our country have tough times coming. Great.

I really really wonder how people with ME react to Covid-2. With the rate it's going at right now, it shouldn't be too long before a first case is reported, I guess.

Why on earth are they doing that. Why do other countries keep taking advice from the UK?

 

[splusholia]

I have some more info regarding UK plan.

Martha Clokie and her department think the science behind UK is sound and they’re doing the right things. This was a private conversation but she’ll be doing a video q+a at some point for Agile Rabbit (Exeter organisation).

They’re drip feeding the public that essentially this is not just going to be a few weeks of disruption.

(I’m making no judgements. I’m not a Tory, just reporting what I hear!)

... just to add... I’m also a severe ME patient at risk due to the schools still being open.

 

[splusholia]

I do see some logic to us being slower and ‘drip feeding’ it though. My friend in Spain freaked out when I mentioned we might be in lockdown for three months. She thinks it’ll be weeks. This drip feeding will get people used to the extreme length of time they may have to isolate for. But who knows if it will work.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

I have some more info regarding UK plan.

Martha Clokie and her department think the science behind UK is sound and they’re doing the right things. This was a private conversation but she’ll be doing a video q+a at some point for Agile Rabbit (Exeter organisation).

They’re drip feeding the public that essentially this is not just going to be a few weeks of disruption.

(I’m making no judgements. I’m not a Tory, just reporting what I hear!)

From what I’ve seen, some British academics are saying they think the science is sound. But many do not. I don’t really trust anyone saying it’s sound until they release the models and the science. So far they’ve said they would but have not given any specific date. With the governments track record of “releasing reports” (ie never), I will only believe it when I see it.

Another weird thing though. As there’s been so much pressure on them to release the plans, from all quarters: scientists, behavioural scientists, doctors and nurses, teachers, opposition political party; my mum says just now they came on TV and said: their old plan (herd immunity) would be too much of a “burden”. And it would have caused 250,000 deaths. So because of that they are changing to a “newer model” so they can try to go the way of China.

So.. maybe things really may change. Still too little too late at the moment.

So far, it seems to me to be all “advice” rather than concrete suggestions. Don’t go to gatherings pubs clubs etc but they haven’t actually closed any of them down. I can imagine some people going to them still. And to try to work from home remotely. And vulnerable people to self isolate for 12 weeks. But those vulnerable people will still be coming into contact with others?

no school closures.

still no concrete measures on community testing and NHS doctors nurses testing yet. So we don’t know who has it and who doesn’t.

Self isolate for 7 days if you get cough fever (no test), if you live alone. 14 days if you’re in a family. But again no one knows if any of you have it or not. Why 7 days? WHO advice is way more.

My absolute biggest worry is the issue of no community testing. This is *crucial*. Like the WHO said. If you don’t know where it is, you can’t trace,, you can’t isolate, you can’t treat.

If death increases go in current trend of last 4-6 days; then by end of next week; we will have 3600 deaths (doubling every 2 days). This assumes no change though. So with the changes hopefully much less.

 

[splusholia]

From what I’ve seen, some British academics are saying they think the science is sound. But many do not. I don’t really trust anyone saying it’s sound until they release the models and the science. So far they’ve said they would but have not given any specific date. With the governments track record of “releasing reports” (ie never), I will only believe it when I see it.

Another weird thing though. As there’s been so much pressure on them to release the plans, from all quarters: scientists, behavioural scientists, doctors and nurses, teachers, opposition political party; my mum says just now they came on TV and said: their old plan (herd immunity) would be too much of a “burden”. And it would have caused 250,000 deaths. So because of that they are changing to a “newer model” so they can try to go the way of China.

So.. maybe things really may change. Still too little too late at the moment.

So far, it seems to me to be all “advice” rather than concrete suggestions. Don’t go to gatherings pubs clubs etc but they haven’t actually closed any of them down. I can imagine some people going to them still. And to try to work from home remotely. And vulnerable people to self isolate for 12 weeks. But those vulnerable people will still be coming into contact with others?

no school closures.

still no concrete measures on community testing and NHS doctors nurses testing yet. So we don’t know who has it and who doesn’t.

Self isolate for 7 days if you get cough fever (no test), if you live alone. 14 days if you’re in a family. But again no one knows if any of you have it or not. Why 7 days? WHO advice is way more.

My absolute biggest worry is the issue of no community testing. This is *crucial*. Like the WHO said. If you don’t know where it is, you can’t trace,, you can’t isolate, you can’t treat.

If death increases go in current trend of last 4-6 days; then by end of next week; we will have 3600 deaths.

Theatres have just closed with immediate effect. I’m watching with interest. I’m desperate for school closures. I find the politics behind this fascinating (+ the reality terrifying). I think they’re going to try and enforce things without enforcing them. Less drastic measures than Europe because they’re scared of riots. I think we can expect more closures to follow.

 

[rainbowbluebells]

Theatres have just closed with immediate effect. I’m watching with interest. I’m desperate for school closures. I find the politics behind this fascinating (+ the reality terrifying). I think they’re going to try and enforce things without enforcing them. Less drastic measures than Europe because they’re scared of riots. I think we can expect more closures to follow.

Is it the theatre companies themselves? As the govt has left it up to the industries to do it. The sad thing about it is that these companies can’t now claim their loss of earnings back through insurance, because the govt isn’t officially closing them.

Yes it seems to be based on the whole nudge theory stuff. I agree with you it’s interesting to it but also really scary to be living in it. I worry because according to the WHO and what we’ve seen in Italy etc is every single day counts. Even a week can change the trajectory of the deaths. And we’ve already left it too late. I think everything should’ve been put on lockdown already. Our rate of death increase is steeper than any other country so far and our trajectory looks set to be even worse than Italy and China.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1239523274285092866

Im hoping in a few days time schools will close. And other things get closed too and properly enforced. For example Glastonbury announced a few day’s ago they were going ahead! I hope those things will just decide by themselves not to do that anymore.

 

[Bergkamp]

Why on earth are they doing that. Why do other countries keep taking advice from the UK?

I don't think we are following advice from the UK, we have experts and scientists too, we're not that small of a country

 

[rainbowbluebells]

I don't think we are following advice from the UK, we have experts and scientists too, we're not that small of a country

But UK came up with herd immunity first (or at least seemed to be talking about it first) and it seemed like we were the only country saying it before..

But I guess your country has some weird scientists too like us too.