Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

Asklipia

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
I doubt they are dead, they are supposed to be in spores.
Maybe it will take a few days of supplementation to get a result?
Also I suppose that if part of their effect is because they are replacing something else, you might have much less of that bad something else now and the effect is less obvious?
Do report!
I take them now and then, especially when there is a "cold" around. I suspect many people are infected with C. difficile nowadays and happily snort it around. I know it is supposed to be staying only in their gut but nothing surprises me anymore.
Anyway, a few CB do not bring spectacular effects like at first, but I feel well and happy, certainly NOT ready to go back to my former miserable self. So I keep taking them from time to time, 6 a day.
I don't think you can really culture them in milk, not if it does not stay at body temperature, which is when the spores open.
 
S

SherDa

Messages
88
For those struggling with constipation/gut motility:

I haven't tried CB yet, but I've had the issues with colonic motility that seem like really bad constipation and are refractory to the typical constipation aids (like magnesium). When my gut gets "gridlocked," nothing can escape it, whether liquid, solid or gas. Nothing moves.

This post from Rich was extremely helpful, especially these 2 items:
3. Low production of bile and bile acids.
5. Low production of acetylcholine.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...emptying-and-colonic-inertia.2491/#post-59285

I do have to switch things up as the bottleneck changes from 1 nutrient to another frequently, but I've been able to keep things moving.

I strongly suspect that my issue is with acetylcholine (ACh). Taking a 1 or 2 g of choline (and/or lecithin) and acetyl-L-carnitine makes me feel more normal than I have in years. My brain fog disappears so completely that it feels like my brain just opens up and blossoms. It also calms stiff/achy muscles, clears my blurry vision (my pupils can contract!) and as I said above, keeps the GI tract moving. Sometimes, choline and ALCar won't work by themselves and I have to add in manganese, B1 and B5 (needed to produce ACh). Then, when that occasionally fails, I also take electrolytes. Calcium and sodium seem to help me more than magnesium, which is odd because calcium has a reputation for being constipating.

I could elaborate more on my protocol, but I'll wait to see if anyone wants to hear it so I don't create a super-long post :)

I just wonder if the CB is increasing nitric oxide, lowering acetylcholine and thus causing slow gut motility?
 
D

douglasmich

Senior Member
Messages
311
Im dealing with severe slow transit constipation.

i have just ordered Miyarisan. I hope it works.

I do not fart and my colon does not move.

I am trying an RS enema tonight. WIth 2tbsp RS, prescript assist and another probitoic.

Oral probitoics constipate me more.
 
D

douglasmich

Senior Member
Messages
311
SherDa said:
For those struggling with constipation/gut motility:

I haven't tried CB yet, but I've had the issues with colonic motility that seem like really bad constipation and are refractory to the typical constipation aids (like magnesium). When my gut gets "gridlocked," nothing can escape it, whether liquid, solid or gas. Nothing moves.

This post from Rich was extremely helpful, especially these 2 items:
3. Low production of bile and bile acids.
5. Low production of acetylcholine.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...emptying-and-colonic-inertia.2491/#post-59285

I do have to switch things up as the bottleneck changes from 1 nutrient to another frequently, but I've been able to keep things moving.

I strongly suspect that my issue is with acetylcholine (ACh). Taking a 1 or 2 g of choline (and/or lecithin) and acetyl-L-carnitine makes me feel more normal than I have in years. My brain fog disappears so completely that it feels like my brain just opens up and blossoms. It also calms stiff/achy muscles, clears my blurry vision (my pupils can contract!) and as I said above, keeps the GI tract moving. Sometimes, choline and ALCar won't work by themselves and I have to add in manganese, B1 and B5 (needed to produce ACh). Then, when that occasionally fails, I also take electrolytes. Calcium and sodium seem to help me more than magnesium, which is odd because calcium has a reputation for being constipating.

I could elaborate more on my protocol, but I'll wait to see if anyone wants to hear it so I don't create a super-long post :)

I just wonder if the CB is increasing nitric oxide, lowering acetylcholine and thus causing slow gut motility?
Click to expand...


Hi i have colonic inertia. Funny you mention bile acids because i have the worst SNPs for bile acids a few people have ever seen
 
D

douglasmich

Senior Member
Messages
311
Check this out

"The patient was given a pre-treatment of Vancomycin 125 mg twice daily and at one week he was given an orthostatic lavage consisting of picosulfate preparation which flushed out his bowel. He was then given twice daily oral bacteriotherapy consisting of cultures containing living probiotics. These included several bacteroides species, Escherichia coli and non-pathogenic Clostridia such as Clostridium butyricum, Clostridium bifermentans and Clostridium innocuum. Within two weeks the bowel symptoms reversed to normal defecation with soft, formed stool—once or twice per day. Constipation disappeared, eye contact returned over the next six weeks and vocabulary and word use quite dramatically improved, to everyone's surprise. When followed for eight months over 600 words could be counted in the vocabulary with sentences of up to eight words being constructed where previously this was not possible. Some abstract thinking was noted by teachers at the special autism school. Parents in particular noted reduced aggression, greater co-operation, and general increasing ability to develop a more normal relationship with the child. Repetitive action also disappeared."

http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31164
 
S

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
SherDa said:
I just wonder if the CB is increasing nitric oxide, lowering acetylcholine and thus causing slow gut motility?
Click to expand...

That would be my guess. Whatever the cause, CB caused severe gastroparesis for me. It's a pity because it was helping my other symptoms.
 
C

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
I didn't find any evidence for Clostridium Butyricum producing or inducing NO, but, it does produce a lot of Hydrogen.

If someone's gut has a lot of Hydrogen utilizing microbes, such as Methanogens, then their growth could cause constipation.

Nitric oxide producers are usually Lactic Acid Bacteria and Enterobacteria. Their overgrowth could be associated with gastroparesis, because excess NO can reduce gastric contractions.
 
O

Oci

Senior Member
Messages
261
douglasmich said:
Is this safe to use in an enema?

Oral probiotics seem to worsen my constipation.
Click to expand...
From my reading, it seems that constipation is caused by IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) and that there is a connection to SIBO which is Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth.
I have SIBO and it is made worse by probiotics...they cause a huge amount of brain fog. My doctor says that I need to get the overgrowth of bacteria under control before taking any more probiotics. Probiotics are just feeding the bacteria.
 
Owl42

Owl42

Psychedelic bird
Messages
53
Location
Mexico
WOW, 51 pags... so have you guys come to a conclussion, is this worth trying? I'm currently on bifidobacterium lactis, lactobacilus acidophilus, lactobacilus plantarum and lactococcus lactis. Will this really make a change? I'm mostly feeling cognitive and vision problems right now. You think any of the probiotics I'm taking could be making it worse?
 
O

Oci

Senior Member
Messages
261
Owl42 said:
WOW, 51 pags... so have you guys come to a conclussion, is this worth trying? I'm currently on bifidobacterium lactis, lactobacilus acidophilus, lactobacilus plantarum and lactococcus lactis. Will this really make a change? I'm mostly feeling cognitive and vision problems right now. You think any of the probiotics I'm taking could be making it worse?
Click to expand...
I went off all probiotics and the complex carbs, increased fiber etc that I had added and now feel hugely better. Brain fog much improved.
 
dannybex

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,576
Location
Seattle
Sidereal said:
Well, AOR3 as you know contains a species of strep. No problemo for normal people but strep and I go way back. I developed a root canal tooth after AOR3 which cleared up after stopping the supplements and a month or so of herbal antimicrobials. If you look at the literature this species of strep is commonly found in root canal teeth. Most people will have no problems with this probiotic though.

Gastritis, as in this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastritis
Click to expand...

@Sidereal -- what herbs did you use as antimicrobials? My teeth are in terrible shape and have noticed a little sensitivity lately in one area, and dread ABX use, as I think it helped kill off oxalate degrading bacteria a few years ago.

Thanks in advance.
 
S

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
dannybex said:
@Sidereal -- what herbs did you use as antimicrobials? My teeth are in terrible shape and have noticed a little sensitivity lately in one area, and dread ABX use, as I think it helped kill off oxalate degrading bacteria a few years ago.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Triphala. I crushed the tablet and used it as a mouthwash.
 
S

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
D

douglasmich

Senior Member
Messages
311
SherDa said:
For those struggling with constipation/gut motility:

I haven't tried CB yet, but I've had the issues with colonic motility that seem like really bad constipation and are refractory to the typical constipation aids (like magnesium). When my gut gets "gridlocked," nothing can escape it, whether liquid, solid or gas. Nothing moves.

This post from Rich was extremely helpful, especially these 2 items:
3. Low production of bile and bile acids.
5. Low production of acetylcholine.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...emptying-and-colonic-inertia.2491/#post-59285

I do have to switch things up as the bottleneck changes from 1 nutrient to another frequently, but I've been able to keep things moving.

I strongly suspect that my issue is with acetylcholine (ACh). Taking a 1 or 2 g of choline (and/or lecithin) and acetyl-L-carnitine makes me feel more normal than I have in years. My brain fog disappears so completely that it feels like my brain just opens up and blossoms. It also calms stiff/achy muscles, clears my blurry vision (my pupils can contract!) and as I said above, keeps the GI tract moving. Sometimes, choline and ALCar won't work by themselves and I have to add in manganese, B1 and B5 (needed to produce ACh). Then, when that occasionally fails, I also take electrolytes. Calcium and sodium seem to help me more than magnesium, which is odd because calcium has a reputation for being constipating.

I could elaborate more on my protocol, but I'll wait to see if anyone wants to hear it so I don't create a super-long post :)

I just wonder if the CB is increasing nitric oxide, lowering acetylcholine and thus causing slow gut motility?
Click to expand...


Please elaborate on your protocal.

I am the same. I dont pass gass . I could probabaly go a month without a bowelmovement. I am doing enemas 3x a week.

I have ordered ox bile and i am taking 350mg choline. Maybe i needmore?

Help is much appreciated. I am very hopeless from this. I cant eat any fiber at allbecause ofit./
 
JES

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,374
Just beware that for me (and it seems for quite a few others here as well), CB actually causes constipation. I don't normally suffer much from that issue and never has a probiotic before caused that for me, but after trying a formula containing CB for a week I had bad constipation/gastroparesis (or who knows what) that lasted for almost a month. It ruined my summer holiday.
 
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