Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[Sushi]

I wonder how you'd do on just CB without the supplemental LAB for a few days.

Worth a try--thanks for the idea.

 

[Scarecrow]

What I am saying is there is more than one way to sleep well.

I'd settle for any way of sleeping well.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I'd settle for any way of sleeping well.

1 cap vitamin A just put me back to well-sleeping mode a few days ago
But the movie-like dreaming and recalling is awesome, completely different from just dreaming and recalling.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Just was tagged to look at this thread by a friend today. Am only 1/3 through reading it but am wondering does coconut flour count as Resistant Starch? if not what about green peas? I have only about 9 foods I can actually tolerate now, and am leery of branching out as the effects can be difficult to recover from. Thanks.

Already looks like I can't take Miyarisan due to it containing Microcrystalline Cellulose, Magnesium Stearate, neither of which I tolerate. Also isn't Talc supposed to be bad - based on recent articles about baby powder causing uterine cancer?

This leaves the question about whether the other two probiotic strains in AOR brand are ok for folks w. ME/CFS? Was that question resolved later in the thread?

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Sparrowhawk What can you eat?

 

[Sidereal]

This leaves the question about whether the other two probiotic strains in AOR brand are ok for folks w. ME/CFS? Was that question resolved later in the thread?

AOR was good for some and bad for some. Impossible to say how you'd react.

 

[ahmo]

@Sparrowhawk I couldn't deal with the cornstarch in Miyarisan, so I used 1/2 tab in 1/2 gallon milk + yogurt culture. It might be that culturing it, which will increase the good bacteria, while diluting the mag stearate, will work for you.

 

[Gondwanaland]

yogurt culture

including acidophilus?

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Thanks for the replies so far -- can't do dairy so that's unfortunately out.
I can eat red meat, but react to things like lamb, duck, and now even some chicken -- really can't figure that one out.
Raddichio, squash, some green peas, coconut flour, eggs, coconut oil, and now raw carrots (not cooked) and avocado (but not at night due to histamine reaction). Without the avocado I get into potassium deficit so glad to have been able to add that in the past few months.
No grains, none of the usual carbs work either. @Gondwanaland

 

[Sparrowhawk]

AOR was good for some and bad for some. Impossible to say how you'd react.

I'll keep reading the thread in that case, to see what those folks who reacted badly to it might indicate as similar or dissimilar to my own issues. Thanks.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Sparrowhawk are there probiotics you tolerate/currently taking?

Just recently I read that game meat/fowl are high oxalates, would that make sense to you?

 

[dannybex]

Having said that I agree that people tend to get stuck in their own grooves. I was unaware of Catherine Tomaro but of my own accord came to implement some of what I understand she advocated. Calcium supplementation is a definite no-no for me, as is any form of citrate. I have been taking vit K2 (mk 4) for some time and think it has been helpful.

I'm curious what sorts of symptoms did you get from calcium supplementation @alicec? I've had problems with it as well for years (except from food) but haven't taken any K2.

 

[alicec]

Did anyone switch from AOR Probiotic 3 (which contains C. B.) to Miyarisan? If yes, what dose feels equivalent to one AOR?

Yes I have done that -several months apart. The Miyarisan appears to be much more potent. Strategies in between deliberately targeting the gut could have expanded populations that made the C. butyricum more effective and account for the difference - it is impossible to really know. In any case I have had to cut way back on the miyarisan (1 every second day was too much) while with AOR 3 I took 2 or 3 daily for months.

 

[alicec]

am wondering does coconut flour count as Resistant Starch? if not what about green peas?

As far as I know coconut flour contains lots of prebiotic fibre but little or no resistant starch. As a legume green peas would contain some resistant starch though I don't know how much.

 

[ahmo]

including acidophilus?

Not necessarily. I'd think you would be able to use whatever probies you're using to get a culture going. Although I'm not certain of that, as my starter has initially come from commercial yogurt.

 

[Asklipia]

I could not find out how much C. butyricum there is in a capsule of AOR-3 compared to a tablet (small) of Miyarisan.
Maybe very little? In that case price-wise it is not a very good buy if you are looking for C. butyricum.
I do not think that there is a problem of the AOR-3 being too old or having lost its potency, at leasy for its C. butyricum content, since that is in spores that keep nicely put until they meet your gut.
Maybe the other two probiotics present in the AOR-3 are dampening the oxalate release ? If that is the problem.

 

[alicec]

I read that game meat/fowl are high oxalates

I'd be questioning the source of that info. Proteinaceous foods are very low - it is plants that are the source of oxalate.

 

[alicec]

I haven't taken any miyarisan for 1 week. It was definitely the source of the lightheadedness, sympathetic overactivity and pain/paralysis in the right foot.

I am not out of trouble however. Now it seems that everything I do is zeroing in on the brain; brain fog and blurred vision have become more or less permanent. I recognised the increased acetylcholine production apparently resulting from miyarisan and cut out choline and acetyl carnitine. That helped. I recognised increased lymphatic congestion in the head and employed various strategies to relieve it. That helped. Then I realised that even the small amounts of prebiotics that I had reintroduced, and that once had seemed tolerable, were causing trouble, so I cut them out again.

After a few days, impatience suggested that I try something completely different. Yesterday morning I took 1/16 tsp B. infantis and 1/16 tsp GOS. I spent the day in a total stupor. Today I am better though still not with it.

Several times I have resorted to @Asklipia's vodka therapy and last night needed it badly. I am pleased to report that it definitely helps.

I'll give everything a rest for another few days and will try again - certainly with miyarisan, though a much smaller dose. Other things - well I am considering all this.

I hate to think what is going on in the brain but trust that eventually that whatever is being targeted will be brought under control. It would be nice to be able to think again.

 

[alicec]

I'm curious what sorts of symptoms did you get from calcium supplementation @alicec?

It was so long ago that I don't remember clearly. I think excitatory - sleep disturbance, jitteriness etc.

 

[Asklipia]

@alicec
Apart from Miyarisan and vodka, I have two other secret weapons :
- Brahmi, the herb used, as its name suggests, in India for chess-players and intellectuals who want to stay on top, and to prevent Alzheimers. I take 350 mg a day of the dried leaf.This is Bacopa monnieri. In the first few days it gives all kinds of detox symptoms in the lymphatic ducts of the head rofl:), and soon produces juice from the ears, pimples on jaws. I understand from this that this is targeting something that lives in the head. And that you are more clever without whatever it is.
- Sanum Therapy, slowly but surely getting rid of fungi.
Lots of good wishes!