Clostridium Butyricum - A Game Changer?

[Sushi]

Sushi, you see KDM right? Do you have high D-lactate?

Yes, I see KDM. I just plowed through a few years of tests (written in Dutch!) and didn't see this test though could have missed it if it has another possible name. What section of lab testing would it likely appear in? Or are there related tests from which you could infer this?

 

[Gondwanaland]

did anyone else here have antibiotics known to knock O Formigenes back prior to becoming unwell?

I did. I went to a dr who prescribed me a ton of abx for my polyuria and rosacea (incl cipro and flagyl)

 

[ahmo]

I am sorry to ask you that, but is it painful like oxalate dump?

no, not at all. Just consistency change.

 

[Sidereal]

Yes, I see KDM. I just plowed through a few years of tests (written in Dutch!) and didn't see this test though could have missed it if it has another possible name. What section of lab testing would it likely appear in? Or are there related tests from which you could infer this?

I don't know which way he measures D-lactate (blood or stool or both) but I have seen a couple of other KDM patients refer to their elevated D-lactate so presumably he runs this test routinely.

 

[Asklipia]

You mentioned that C. butyricum is causing pain. Are you thinking this is coming from butyrate upregulating vitamin D receptors or is it something else? (The study was on colon cancer cells...not sure if that makes a difference or not).

Interesting. Any thoughts on butyrate and VDR, @nandixon? Seems safer than using an ARB to achieve the same thing.

My vit D 25OH in blood went up after taking pre and probiotics.

There is this study : Short-chain fatty acids and colon cancer cells: the vitamin D receptor--butyrate connection.
Tributyrin significantly increased VDR-mRNA level (250% vs. control) and VDR binding activity. Butyrate also enhanced VDR protein content in the nucleus in a time- and dose-dependent manner and more potently than other short-chain fatty acids of a related structure. Both butyrate (640% vs. control) and 1,25-(OH)2D3 (350% vs. control) significantly stimulated differentiation, whereas combined treatment with butyrate and 1,25-(OH)2D3 resulted in a synergistic amplification of AP activity (1400% vs. control). In the presence of the VDR antagonist ZK 191732, butyrate-induced differentiation was completely abolished (150% vs. control).

Also I have noticed when I sunbathe, at some point I feel the same pleasant tingling all over as I got from taking a double dose of VSL#3 by mistake once. Does Vitamin D wake up the bacteria? This is different from the Vitamin D kick-in that happens after about 15 minutes.

Maybe we need at the same time the butyrate AND the vit D. Which is why many people cannot stand Vitamin D supplementation, because there is no sun to wake-up the bacteria?
Maybe the butyrate producing bacteria are light sensitive? To do with circadian rhythm and melatonin production?

 

[Rand56]

Thought I'd give an update on my Miyarisan experience since it's been awhile since I've posted about it on here. My stupid mindset of "more is better", got me in trouble with this one. I decided to keep going up in dose at a more rapid rate. Started taking 12 tabs and day, after being on 9 tabs a day for a few weeks, and my depression with added fatigue came back. I forgot who it was on this thread who said that Miyarisan can have a build up effect. If this is true, then my body was telling me I was way into overkill territory with it. It still took me a few days of not taking any at all to start feeling better.

I decided to start all over with it at just one tab per day and experimented taking it at dinner instead of the split doses when I was taking a higher amount. Just on 1 tab per day and taking it at dinner, my sleep is better, with more vivid dream recall. Decided last night for the first time to only take 1/2 tab, with the same better sleep result. Going to try 1/4 tab to see what result I get with this. Less is definitely better with this, which most of you on here have found out yourselves.

 

[Sidereal]

Less is more when it comes to ANY gut related intervention.

 

[Sidereal]

Yes, I see KDM. I just plowed through a few years of tests (written in Dutch!) and didn't see this test though could have missed it if it has another possible name. What section of lab testing would it likely appear in? Or are there related tests from which you could infer this?

I wonder how you'd do on just CB without the supplemental LAB for a few days.

 

[Sasha]

my sleep is better, with more vivid dream recall.

I always thought that vivid dream recall was a sign of poor sleep because in order to recall a dream, you have to have woken up after it (or so the research used to say, I think). But it sounds as though that's not your experience, and quite a few people on RS were welcoming these vivid dreams, which I doubt they would have if they'd wrecked their sleep.

Don't know what to make of that!

 

[Rand56]

I always thought that vivid dream recall was a sign of poor sleep because in order to recall a dream, you have to have woken up after it (or so the research used to say, I think). But it sounds as though that's not your experience, and quite a few people on RS were welcoming these vivid dreams, which I doubt they would have if they'd wrecked their sleep.

Don't know what to make of that!

Well, who knows, you could even be right about the vivid dream recall is a result of poor sleep, idk. I have noticed that I fall asleep faster. Typically I'd be tossing and turning for awhile before I eventually nod out. Also, and it's still too early to tell, but I have woken up feeling a "bit" more refreshed. I think this is all a good sign, but time will tell. I can't even remember that last time I felt totally refreshed waking up after a night's sleep, so for now I'll take a "bit" LOL.

 

[adreno]

Higher acetylcholine will give you more vivid dreams (and lighter sleep).

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Sasha magnesium had the same effect on me as the one reported by RSers = better sleep + increased dreaming and recalling.

@JPV @adreno @Rand56 I am noticing a different reaction pattern in males (more positive).

I wonder how you'd do on just CB without the supplemental LAB for a few days.

That is a VERY GOOD question.... b/c my plan is to get an oxalate reducing blend of LAB+BIF and then go back to CB.

 

[Rand56]

Higher acetylcholine will give you more vivid dreams (and lighter sleep).

Do you think the vivid dreams could also be a result of additional vitamin B-6 being produced from gut bacteria?

 

[adreno]

Do you think the vivid dreams could also be a result of additional vitamin B-6 being produced from gut bacteria?

It's possible; they could both increase REM sleep, at the cost of slow wave sleep. However I believe the effect of ACh is much stronger than that of B6.

 

[Scarecrow]

I always thought that vivid dream recall was a sign of poor sleep because in order to recall a dream, you have to have woken up after it

Well, who knows, you could even be right about the vivid dream recall is a result of poor sleep, idk. I have noticed that I fall asleep faster. Typically I'd be tossing and turning for awhile before I eventually nod out. Also, and it's still too early to tell, but I have woken up feeling a "bit" more refreshed. I think this is all a good sign, but time will tell. I can't even remember that last time I felt totally refreshed waking up after a night's sleep, so for now I'll take a "bit" LOL.

Higher acetylcholine will give you more vivid dreams (and lighter sleep).

I suppose that 'vivid' is a relative concept.

If you aren't recalling your dreams at all - or very much - and suddenly you can, you might refer to them as vivid in a positive way. But if your sleep is normal and you already have decent recall and then you refer to your dreams becoming more vivid, it could be a negative sign.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I suppose that 'vivid' is a relative concept.

If you aren't recalling your dreams at all - or very much - and suddenly you can, you might refer to them as vivid in a positive way. But if your sleep is normal and you already have decent recall and then you refer to your dreams becoming more vivid, it could be a negative sign.

I beg to disagree. From the 1st post of the RS challenge thread:

— improved sleep (deep and "movie-like" vivid dreams)

 

[Sasha]

Has anyone else found they've got more lactic acid in their muscles since starting CB?

 

[Scarecrow]

Also, re dreams. Normal sleep involves several cycles of about 90 mins. Part of each cycle involves slow wave or deep sleep. I think it's the case that immediately after the deep sleep, you move into REM sleep and that over the course of the night, the proportion of REM sleep increases so that by the morning you are more likely to wake during or shortly after REM and therefore, you're more likely to recall your dream.

 

[Scarecrow]

I beg to disagree. From the 1st post of the RS challenge thread:

Actually, you are agreeing with me.

I would love to dream more and I associate it with a good nights sleep.

But I think that you can also get too much of a good thing. In other words, there may be more than one way of sleeping badly.

 

[Gondwanaland]

there may be more than one way of sleeping badly.

What I am saying is there is more than one way to sleep well.