B2 I love you!

[B2trail]

@B2trail, it looks like in that study that you linked above is saying that the immune system reaction is to precursors to B2 that are produced by bacteria and fungi, NOT to vitamin B2 taken as a supplement, or even to Vitamin B2 in any form, actually. Maybe someone else can read it and verify that.

@

That looks like it, doesn't it Violeta? Vitamin B2 supps are absorbed in the small intestine (in the jejenum) and absorbed there without a problem but food with the precursors in it that are synthesised into Riboflavin may trigger these T-Cells in the colon. Maybe this is why people who end up with their colon removed don't get vitamin deficient, except perhaps B12 and vit K which are absorbed at the ileum - junction of small and large intestine.

Meanwhile, been reading very interesting stuff about Riboflavin being produced by the bacteria b. subtilis in the colon. This is often in Kefir. I cannot take kefir although lots of IBD people can.

 

[PathogenKiller]

What the researchers haven't figured out, that I think is relevant, is that there is a specific type of pathogen, where regulation of riboflavin synthesis, is handled very differently from other microbial synthesizers of riboflavin. This is something that evolved over millions of years in the host. I consider this yet another clue that the riboflavin perturbations are influenced by this class of pathogenic organisms.

What's the pathogen, @Vegas?

 

[Vegas]

Gram negative bacteria seem to have quite a few distinct characteristics including translational control over riboflavin synthesis.

 

[Violeta]

Gram negative bacteria seem to have quite a few distinct characteristics including translational control over riboflavin synthesis.

What do you mean by translational control over riboflavin synthesis?

Thanks

 

[Vegas]

What do you mean by translational control over riboflavin synthesis?

Thanks

I don't know, I just made that up.

Please don't make me explain translation vs transcription.

Just a different mechanism by which the genes can be readily influenced to turn on or off riboflavin synthesis. The implications extend to how these bacterial organisms interact with host organisms, in this case, us humans and our own need for this micronutrient vs. the bacterial need. Riboflavin is tied to the synthesis of energy and the suppression of oxidative stress.

 

[Violeta]

I don't know, I just made that up.

Please don't make me explain translation vs transcription.

Just a different mechanism by which the genes can be readily influenced to turn on or off riboflavin synthesis. The implications extend to how these bacterial organisms interact with host organisms, in this case, us humans and our own need for this micronutrient vs. the bacterial need. Riboflavin is tied to the synthesis of energy and the suppression of oxidative stress.

I'm sure that explanation is deep enough. Very interesting.

I probably shouldn't ask this because you might think I don't understand your explanation, but would that mean that gram negative bacteria can cause us to be deficient in riboflavin?

Thanks

 

[B2trail]

I'm sure that explanation is deep enough. Very interesting.

I probably shouldn't ask this because you might think I don't understand your explanation, but would that mean that gram negative bacteria can cause us to be deficient in riboflavin?

Thanks

I think that is how I read it. Vegas, would you have any links to research? would love to learn more? In ulcerative colitis there is often a dominance of the Prevotella bacteria, which I believe are gram negative. As I posted earlier, symptoms posted in studies of B2 deprived baboons looked very similar to ulcerative colitis

 

[Vegas]

I think that is how I read it. Vegas, would you have any links to research? would love to learn more? In ulcerative colitis there is often a dominance of the Prevotella bacteria, which I believe are gram negative. As I posted earlier, symptoms posted in studies of B2 deprived baboons looked very similar to ulcerative colitis

I'm not up-to-speed on Inflammatory Bowel Disease, but I did comment about my 15 minute analysis of the recent crohn's-microbiome study, that came out in March, I think. Certain missing species of Bifidobacteria and elevated Proteobacteria was noteworthy to me. I'd link what I said, but I don't know where this is in the PR site.

The article you linked was actually new to me and very interesting. I suggested a regimen of B2, 5-MTHF, zinc, Mg, Amylopectin, High-Dose Omega 3, to a friend with UC, but I will basically suggests this to anyone with inflammatory disease, along with properly fermented foods. Any thoughts about what you think would be beneficial for UC?

(he is taking VSL and an Rx med with good results, but I am encouraging that him to correct what is surely marked by an underlying bacterial imbalance).


Anyway, here is your source:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC8QFjAB&url=http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/14/3141.full.pdf&ei=B6RNU4PqMcakyATH_IHgDA&usg=AFQjCNHZ1f86NiVre6Je_wrEOHWZ91nKIg&bvm=bv.64764171,d.b2I

 

[girlfromeurope]

Is it normal to pee yellow after b2 if you have signs of b2 deficiency?
I have been taking about 25-50 mg a day for a couple of days now and my pee is yellow, that's a sign my body is getting rid of the exess, but I still have symptoms.

 

[B2trail]

Is it normal to pee yellow after b2, if you have signs of b2 deficiency?
I have been taking about 25-50 mg a day for a couple of days now and my pee is yellow, that's a sign my body is getting rid of the exess, but I still have symptoms.

sorry can't help with that question. I know I people commonly pee yellow but what that says about how your levels are, I don't know. I think you might need an organic acids (urine) test to tell you more about your metabolism of the vit

 

[B2trail]

I'm not up-to-speed on Inflammatory Bowel Disease, but I did comment about my 15 minute analysis of the recent crohn's-microbiome study, that came out in March, I think. Certain missing species of Bifidobacteria and elevated Proteobacteria was noteworthy to me. I'd link what I said, but I don't know where this is in the PR site.

The article you linked was actually new to me and very interesting. I suggested a regimen of B2, 5-MTHF, zinc, Mg, Amylopectin, High-Dose Omega 3, to a friend with UC, but I will basically suggests this to anyone with inflammatory disease, along with properly fermented foods. Any thoughts about what you think would be beneficial for UC?

(he is taking VSL and an Rx med with good results, but I am encouraging that him to correct what is surely marked by an underlying bacterial imbalance).


Anyway, here is your source:

View attachment 7072

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC8QFjAB&url=http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/14/3141.full.pdf&ei=B6RNU4PqMcakyATH_IHgDA&usg=AFQjCNHZ1f86NiVre6Je_wrEOHWZ91nKIg&bvm=bv.64764171,d.b2I

Thanks Vegas, will have to do some work to understand the chemistry on that!

 

[B2trail]

Meanwhile, on the supplements for Crohns, hope it is OK on this thread - well, I am no expert on Crohns because I am a UC person and although the diseases can look really similar, they have some stark differences too. The bacterial balance is different. It's the firmicutes that proliferate and Larry Smarr talks of "mass extinction" of the other bacterial families - this video is a must for Crohn's

I am anti-supplements now having got more ill from them, you need to try and do it with diet if you can I believe, although that is hard in IBD and hard for all of us with our "Frankenstein Food". Sorry to say Vegas but that combination sounds like it would be pretty disastrous for colitis. As I say, not looked in to it for Crohns. You have got to be really careful about folate supps with colon probs as there are many studies on risk for bowel cancer with folic excess and it is not clear if methylfolate is any safer. Several of us from colitis forum flared up badly on methylf. For omega 3 you have to look at your genetics. Some do well on it and some, like me, feel worse, my genetics show difficulty with fish oils. Zinc and mg are cortisol depressing and immune system activating - usually the last thing an IBD person needs, so quantities need to be only as much as needed, blood testing should be done to check mineral levels. Not to mention that taking zinc without copper will release copper into the bowel and copper is extremely irritating to the mucous membrane. Amylopectin - bad probably, it is a substance used to induce colitis in mice for research studies. Polysaccharides generally seem to overload IBD bodies, hence many do well with SCD diet based on monosaccharides.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1641579

 

[Violeta]

@B2trail, when you said,
"I am anti-supplements now having got more ill from them, you need to try and do it with diet if you can I believe"

do you mean you don't take meds, either?

 

[B2trail]

@B2trail, when you said,
"I am anti-supplements now having got more ill from them, you need to try and do it with diet if you can I believe"

do you mean you don't take meds, either?

Oh, no, I have had to make peace with using meds as IBD is a nasty, dangerous disease when in flare and C Diff pretty damn nasty too! Have managed to stay off the ones with the worst side effects so far and have had a much better time of it than many with IBD. However, I won't take meds that clearly make me worse such as happened for me with acid blockers.

When I say supplements I am meaning, I am sorry to say, vits and minerals, because people are not monitored for levels so you have to shell out a lot of money to get private testing here in the UK to check levels of things such as B2 or Zinc or whatever unless you can make a really good case to your NHS doctor. I paid for instance for private testing for zinc level after taking a supplement remedy for colds (sambucol) and was over safe range.

I went for a B2 blood test this week at the local hospital. They said I was the first one they even remembered doing...and it looks like the sample has been messed up.

Meanwhile, back on topic, have I already posted that bread in the UK is fortified with calcium, iron, B1 and B3 but no B2. I guess they think enough will be in the yeast but I wonder...because here is the last line of the summary of a document discussing folic acid fortification in UK flour (oh, how I hope this does not happen now I know my MTHFR status)
22.
The prevalence of poor vitamin B2 (riboflavin) status in the UK population needs to be addressed
http://www.sacn.gov.uk/pdfs/summary_of_sacn_report_to_cmo_19_october_2009.pdf

 

[PeterPositive]

Is it normal to pee yellow after b2 if you have signs of b2 deficiency?
I have been taking about 25-50 mg a day for a couple of days now and my pee is yellow, that's a sign my body is getting rid of the exess, but I still have symptoms.

I think it is, especially if you're taking it in high doses like you do.
I was pretty much deficient years ago after having lost lots of weight due to GI issues. I was put on 20mg/day R5P (active B2) and my pee was indeed super yellow. I think the body takes what it can use and dumps the rest.

 

[girlfromeurope]

how long does it take to restore levels?
I still have some symptoms.
Been supplementing for a week now.

 

[PeterPositive]

how long does it take to restore levels?
I still have some symptoms.
Been supplementing for a week now.

Not an easy question. It depends on how deficient you are, how much you are taking and how much you are actually absorbing. Typically, as with most vitamin supplements, it may take 3-6 week to see major and stable improvements, maybe more depending on each case, and how long you have been dealing with symptoms.

The fact that it's already working for you after a week it's good sign
Which symptoms are improving, if I can ask?

cheers

 

[girlfromeurope]

Not an easy question. It depends on how deficient you are, how much you are taking and how much you are actually absorbing. Typically, as with most vitamin supplements, it may take 3-6 week to see major and stable improvements, maybe more depending on each case, and how long you have been dealing with symptoms.

The fact that it's already working for you after a week it's good sign
Which symptoms are improving, if I can ask?

cheers

My symptoms were sore throat and chapped lips.
Today my throat is less sore than other days so I hope it's working!
Still have some painful lips.

 

[girlfromeurope]

I have bought some sublingual active b2.
Does someone have experience with this?
Does it work better than regular b2?

 

[PeterPositive]

I have bought some sublingual active b2.
Does someone have experience with this?
Does it work better than regular b2?

I take sublingual active B2, aka Flavin mononucleotide, or riboflavin-5′-phosphate (R5P)
My dose ranges from 25 to 50mg/day.

It is supposed to work better than inactive oral B2 because it skips the digestive tract and it's already in the coenzymated form. Judging from the color of my pee it is well absorbed. I illuminate the whole bathroom

If you have never taken it before you can start at a lower dose, say 5-10mg, see if it helps and maybe increase the dose gradually. B2 is generally considered very safe, but starting gradually it's always a good idea.