B2 I love you!

[Little Bluestem]

I have not yet started the B2, but Christine told me that if I felt worse one day to cut back on the B2 the next day. She said that feeling bad was not a good thing. Something about too much iron in the bile recirculating in the blood, and oxidative stress and free radical damage (are those last two more or less the same?) and I sure wish Christine was here to explain this.

I think, but do not know, that the reason she has people cut out the B-complex, vitamin C & D, fortified foods and whatever else is to keep the metabolism from going too haywire when it first gets the B2. She seem to favor the start low, go slow approach. I am a poor source of information, at best. Any of you who have a way to communicate directly with Christine would probably do well to do so.

 

[brenda]

Apparently it does not matter which type of riboflavin you take. I take the 5-phosphate as mine is in a capsule and easier to split. This past week I have not taken much as I have been dealing with salmonella. I had it before so knew what it was when it was starting - lower abdominal cramping and heart pounding - as well as having a chicken in the fridge I had been eating this week. The next symptom would have been severe diahorrea but I caught it in time.

I took action immediately, which is to use sliced garlic cloves which I taped to the soles of my feet - yes I know it sounds weird, but garlic has been used in the past for things like plague, it is a very powerful pathogen destroyer - and I needed to prevent the start of vomitting. The skin absorbs things very quickly, garlic can be detected on the breath soon after it is applied to the skin.

Next I looked up some salmonella frequencies to type into my `rife` device. Yes I know that sounds too way out for most people but the little battery powered sort of `zapper` I bought in Germany is actually a certified medical device used mainstream for all sorts of things (but bigger more powerful machines are needed for such things as cancer).

I have had success with it regarding a few things the most significant being pleuricy which went in a few days. I use it for Lyme but think it might just be controlling it. I need a bigger machine.

It took two days before I could say it was gone, and the two days were pretty rough. I stopped all my supplements and drank more water.

I am getting back into routine now and back on the B2 and manganese which has made a big difference to my stools which were very pale then suddenly went dark which is great news.

I have changed my probiotic which I take at night and am now on a one which contains colostrum. I started back on vit E because of the nightly rips of corneal erosions which are under control. I still feel uneasy about stopping vit C.

Apart from much better sleep and more relaxed muscles, I am continuing to come out of relapse. Before, I was having trouble coping with much contact with people, even one phone call a day was too much at times. I was doing pretty badly mentally but have improved a great deal and most days am dealing with much more though this week has been a set back.

So now I will be building up the B2 and getting my diet organised better to reduce the things Christine told me to limit and chocolate is the main thing. I had got back onto it a year ago and was making my own from organic raw cocoa powder, organic raw cocoa butter and lacuma powder for sweetner so it was healthy(ish) but the zinc and iron are a no no.

I am still in awe at the difference B2 has made.

 

[Hanna]

Hi Brenda,
I am glad you're getting better and that salmonella is behind you.
On my part, it has been only three days that I stopped all supps that are not "B2 protocole" oriented and I can feel some shift (weird one): though I am able to walk a little bit more, I am far more exhausted on standing (more O.I ?). But for the moment it is doable... Good luck to everyone on this path and on the other ones too!

 

[aprilk1869]

I thought I'd bump this for those who've been getting bad symptoms.

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to help you understand what is occurring. When you now have taken the B2 (any kind), without adding lots of other supplements that normally depleted it and did not allow you to see any observable effect from B2, you now are seeing effects. The first thing your body did was convert it to an enzyme, release iron from the liver storage, send the iron to the bone marrow to start manufacturing new RBC's with hemoglobin, instead of zinc and lead. The body always wants to do life critical things with vitamins first. Oxygenating tissues and iron used in the vision cycle and antioxidant systems and immune systems is considered life critical. But using B2 for fatty acid synthesis needed for soft skin, is not life critical. So, since you now have iron out, lead and zinc released, the lead needs to be quelched with radical quelching systems (requires B2), the zinc asks more of B2 as you wrote in a precious email, and the iron that is now constantly being put into RBC's, used and recycled again wants more B2 to keep this process going. So your skin, especially the hands will show that you now have even less B2, even though you took more B2 than previously before starting. It's because what you took, started a process, a chain reaction that now wants more B2. But since the liver is not functioning adequately enough yet to keep up with the demands that any additional amount of B2 would be given, (like when Brenda was sweating or Dreambirdie got all congested), there is always a lag - which reveils the B2 deficiency. Hope that helps you understand little. Just go slower if you have adverse symptoms, by taking less of each dose or less doses per day or take a day off. You seriously do not want adverse symtpoms. You want to move forward comfortably so you know you are not placing oxidative stress on your body.

I know I said I'd only post on the hair thread, but hope this was ok to reply here. I want you to under stand what I've seen and work with every day.

 

[Hanna]

Thanks Aprilk1869, good reminding it.

 

[froufox]

Hi Rusty, Im another one who had a very similar response to you when i first started taking the B2, apart from the dizziness, all the other symptoms u mention got a lot worse for me too. Although I did experience some benefits at the same time...eg moments of feeling more relaxed... I also experienced both deeper & longer sleep some nights, but very poor sleep other nights. Things are a lot better for me now, generally....still having some days when i am very tired for a few hours....depends a lot on keeping my gut in order too. In general, I'm definitely feeling better than usual, and getting a more consistently good nights sleep. Also taking manganese like others. I think that my initial bad reaction was partly because I started off on too high a dose of B2. Glad you're feeling better now, hope it keeps up

About 3 weeks ago I added B2 to my regime of glutathione and B12 (plus zinc, D, B complex, mag, potassium). I had a very bad time of it for about a week, both physically and mentally crashing. For the first time in six years I had to call in sick for the whole week for my part time job (only 2hrs a day for 3 days). I felt frustrated and despairing - symptoms I usually associate with a crash. I usually only get these crashes or storms for about 24 hours, but this one went for a week. This has never happened before.

My symptoms were inability to focus, inability to read, dizziness (couldn't drive), extreme fatigue, increased OI, decreased muscle strength, more frequent headaches, inside my head felt thick, depression, alternating nights of disturbed sleep and longer sleep. I did not experience panic or increased anxiety, which seems at odds with most other responses.

The crash, I am pretty sure, was due to the B2. However after that first week I have slowly gained some equilibrium and had a pretty good day today - slightly above average.

There could be a number of reasons for the crashing and for the variation between patients, I don't think it is that easy to determine, just guessing. However I thought I would post this to urge those with a similar negative experience to try to persist for a few weeks. If you know what to expect then it helps a little to ride it out.

One of the odd things about this illness is that when I crash it is very hard to keep perspective. It's as though my memory plays tricks on me. I feel that the crash is the norm and I can't remember what it is like when I am not crashing, that things can get better. Yet it happens time and time again. I think I will put posters around my room which remind me that better days are always ahead.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar range of symptoms on taking the B2, in addition to the other vits.

 

[Asklipia]

Nice to hear you are getting some improvement with B2!
How much manganese are you people taking?

 

[froufox]

Asklipia, I'm taking 10mg of manganese a day in divided doses....so about 3.3mg with every meal.

 

[Asklipia]

Thank you! I just posted on the thread "Two most effective treatments" http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...most-effective-treatments&p=252992#post252992 in case you are interested.

 

[Hanna]

Just began with it with a baby dose of 1 mg/day. I intend to double it (RDA range)

 

[Dreambirdie]

I am envious of the people who are sleeping better on the B2. My sleep has been godawful lately, and B2 is still very hard for me to take. Today I am trying out about 7 mg to see how that will work. Oh sleeeeeeep would be such a joy!

WHen I spoke with Christine, she said methyl B12 was the worst B12 to take. She actually takes the cyano B12, which I found very odd, and she takes tiny doses, spread out through the day. Did anyone else talk to her about this?

Also, I thought B6 drained B2... and wasn't a good idea to take.

I am very confused about a lot of this. It would be good to get more clear info.

 

[justy]

I tried 5mg of B2 again for two days, but got the lower left back pain again, which i'm presuming could be kidneys not coping? have stopped again.

Am taking MB12 by injection daily and irts having very good effects - i'm really not going to stop something which is the only thing that has helped me so much.
All the best to everyone, Justy.

 

[gu3vara]

I don't have the kidney pain but my stools has been paler than usual since I started b2, my liver seems a bit overwhelmed... For the moment I'm pushing through it as my liver is normal according to blood tests I feel it can handle some load.

Also, my sleep isn't the great now, I wake up often. Something is definitely happening with b2, all we need to know is if it's for our own good or it's just stirring crap like many "treatments". Time will tell, I don't intend to stop.

 

[Boost]

Boost: I'm also not far from Brisbane. Unfortunately MCS has forced me to move to Russell Island. Still in the vicinity though.

There's seems to be a lot happening on the forums lately to do with B2. I haven't really been following it and the threads are sooooo loooooong. I'll have to try and find the motivation and focus to go through them.

What sort of dosages are people taking of B2 above their usual B Complex/Multi? Are most taking straight riboflavin or riboflavin 5 phosphate (only brand I can find of this contains aspartic acid as a filler)?

Russell Island looks like a good set up for a recluse like myself. How were you "forced" there?

I can't speak for everyone but the few I have chatted to are not taking B complexes as some B's can interfere with B2 absorbtion, they are just taking B2 on it's own or with B1. So it's not just a matter of taking excess B2 on top of the rest, that's what I gathered.

 

[dannybex]

I am envious of the people who are sleeping better on the B2. My sleep has been godawful lately, and B2 is still very hard for me to take. Today I am trying out about 7 mg to see how that will work. Oh sleeeeeeep would be such a joy!

WHen I spoke with Christine, she said methyl B12 was the worst B12 to take. She actually takes the cyano B12, which I found very odd, and she takes tiny doses, spread out through the day. Did anyone else talk to her about this?

Also, I thought B6 drained B2... and wasn't a good idea to take.

I am very confused about a lot of this. It would be good to get more clear info.

These are just guesses here, but I got the same impression -- that Christine doesn't like the methyl form -- I think -- emphasize 'think' -- because according to my barely legible scribbled notes, "the body has to "uncovert" it (in the process of digestion?) and then convert it back (in the liver?)" -- both of which require b2. If b2 is already low, then one will end up using twice as much, depleting low b2 even further. ??????

Perhaps Rich can comment on this?

Also, again, just a guess -- but perhaps those who are doing better on the b2 have higher stores of manganese? She emphasized on the forums how they work together and are each needed for each other in order to work. Maybe DB, if you haven't started any low-dose manganese -- maybe that's part of the issue? Or maybe you'll need to start with very tiny doses of b2.

And I have a note here that b6 depletes manganese -- so perhaps if our stores are low, then that's why some of us have been told to avoid b6 for now. I was told this by another doc due to my CBS upregulation, so it works for me, and maybe -- again maybe -- the low manganese might be the missing link. Or one of them.

zzzzzzzzzz........klunk.

 

[dannybex]

I don't have the kidney pain but my stools has been paler than usual since I started b2, my liver seems a bit overwhelmed... For the moment I'm pushing through it as my liver is normal according to blood tests I feel it can handle some load.

Also, my sleep isn't the great now, I wake up often. Something is definitely happening with b2, all we need to know is if it's for our own good or it's just stirring crap like many "treatments". Time will tell, I don't intend to stop.

From page 18, post 180:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?16901-B2-I-love-you!/page18

"I will tell you that I undertook trying to correct my high levels of iron using very high levels of B2 supplements every hour all day and half of the night. At first I noticed I could not fall asleep until late at night..."

"...and finally their stools turned completely yellow. This is a sign that they were not putting enough bilirubin into the stools and/or not converting the bilirubin in the intestines to dark brown due to low manganese. It took a couple of days supplementing 200% of their daily requirement for manganese to bring them back to my happy dogs."

Hope this helps..........back to bed for me.

 

[Shellbell]

Thanks Danny for the info. A lot of this is beginning to make sense now!

 

[Dreambirdie]

I was feeling like hell all last night (many reasons: pollen, viral activation, NO sleep). I took 8 mg of B1 and about 250 mcg of B12 at 3 am, and at 8 am I took 7 mg. of B2. Over the next few hours it made me feel worse...again. Agitated, with lots of pressure in frontal brain. Then I took B6 just an hour ago (which I had stopped completely the last 2 weeks), and after that I feel a bit better. My nerves drank it in like it was elixer of nerve juice.

The B2 protocol is WAY TOO CONFUSING for me to experiment with and figure out right now. Every time I take the B2 I end up feeling worse. I can;t afford that. I am going back to doing what I did before, and if I ever feel stable again I will attempt the B2. Maybe by then, you all will have mastered how much, how long and with what to take it. I will be watching.

 

[brenda]

Christine doesn't like the methyl form -- I think -- emphasize 'think' -- because according to my barely legible scribbled notes, "the body has to "uncovert" it (in the process of digestion?) and then convert it back (in the liver?)" -- both of which require b2. If b2 is already low, then one will end up using twice as much, depleting low b2 even further. ??????

Dan if you take it sublingually then it goes straight to the bloodstream and misses the digestive system. Its the one I take and I told Christine that and she did not say anything.

Once you get your hair results DB and hear from Christine perhaps you will be able to find out what is happening. Hope so

 

[justy]

I have known for over a year that i have a significant manganese deficiency and have been taking manganese daily for that amount of time - so for me it cant be a problem.

I Don't really see this as a protocol, after all Chrisitine looked at individuals charts and advised them as individuals. Brendas account of taking B2 alerted me to seeing wether it could be an important vitamin to take as well asall the other supplements. So far my experience has been deeper sleep, but kidney area pain, which has made me stop taking it again due to concerns as it is contraindicated in kidney problems - i havent had mine checked rcently so am just being cautious.
Besr wishes, Justy