B2 I love you!

[Dreambirdie]

From my own recent experience, not tolerating B2 and B12 suggests other issues that need to be dealt with first. I avoid saying "detox" because it is not a useful description. Without any further insight, it is always a semantic dead end, an intellectual cop-out. So the hard work is in figuring out what's actually going on.

Knowing my body as I do, and having had fecal heavy metal tests during these type of episodes, that indicated heavy metals coming out in my poop, I will go with what feels right to me intuitively and stick to that: IT WAS DEFINITELY A DETOX.

 

[anne_likes_red]

lI've taken doses of approx 5mg, 3 times yesterday and twice today so far.

After 3 doses I had developed typical (for me) metal detox reactions of twitchy, aggravated feet and ringing in my ears. Despite that I slept an extra two hours last night.
Immediately after the first dose I had a really strong sinus detox reaction - not sure if it's bright yellow Dreambirdie because it's way in the back of my nose/throat and I don't plan on investigating it further. I have the feeling that might be related to your reaction? The sinus thing stayed with me all day yesterday and was accompanied by a mild headache. It's eased a bit today, but my eyes feel dry.

My B complex is very low in B2, and I have been supplementing every other B vitamin individually.

I'm not sure what my hair test indicates, so for now I'm going to ease back to one 5mg dose a day - probably not a therapeutic dose, but might help balance out the others anyway.

Anne.

 

[gu3vara]

I also have a very strong reaction to it, I don't take more than 10 mg so far...

I have had a metal taste in my mouth since I started, which could be unbound iron. My PH feels totally off, tears are burning, I twitch and cramp a lot. It's crazy that something that looks totally harmless give such a strong startup reactions, much stronger than b12 for me. Seems promising.

 

[brenda]

Yes I`m getting occasional abdominal cramps. I started manganese yesterday, 2.5 mg and have added dermal magnesium 12 squirts. I still get the feeling that something else is needed to produce more energy in my cells. My skin is feeling better and better.

 

[aquariusgirl]

I'm wondering about alfalfa to bind the copper that is/may be being dumped...I think I am getting some dumping occasionally.. not every day.
if you google copper, alfalfa ..you'll see it's used in industry to bind copper....& you can buy alfalfa supplements..

 

[brenda]

"Alfalfa leaves are POSSIBLY SAFE for most adults. But taking alfalfa seeds long-term is LIKELY UNSAFE. Alfalfa seed products may cause reactions that are similar to the autoimmune disease called lupus erythematosus.

Alfalfa might also cause some people's skin to become extra sensitive to the sun. Wear sunblock outside, especially if you are light-skinned.
Special precautions & warnings:
Pregnancy or breast-feeding: Using alfalfa in larger than food amounts is POSSIBLY UNSAFE during pregnancy and breast-feeding. There is some evidence that alfalfa may act like estrogen, and this might affect the pregnancy.

Auto-immune diseases such as multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus (systemic lupus erythematosus, SLE), rheumatoid arthritis (RA), or other conditions: Alfalfa might cause the immune system to become more active, and this could increase the symptoms of auto-immune diseases. There are two case reports of SLE patients experiencing disease flare after taking alfalfa seed products long-term. If you have an auto-immune condition, its best to avoid using alfalfa until more is known.

Hormone-sensitive condition such as breast cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, endometriosis, or uterine fibroids: Alfalfa might have the same effects as the female hormone estrogen. If you have any condition that might be made worse by exposure to estrogen, dont use alfalfa.

Diabetes: Alfalfa might lower blood sugar levels. If you have diabetes and take alfalfa, monitor your blood sugar levels closely.

Kidney transplant: There is one report of a kidney transplant rejection following the three-month use of a supplement that contained alfalfa and black cohosh. This outcome is more likely due to alfalfa than black cohosh. There is some evidence that alfalfa can boost the immune system and this might make the anti-rejection drug cyclosporine less effective.

Are there interactions with medications?
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Major
Do not take this combination.

Warfarin (Coumadin)
Alfalfa contains large amounts of vitamin K. Vitamin K is used by the body to help blood clot. Warfarin (Coumadin) is used to slow blood clotting. By helping the blood clot, alfalfa might decrease the effectiveness of warfarin (Coumadin). Be sure to have your blood checked regularly. The dose of your warfarin (Coumadin) might need to be changed.

Moderate
Be cautious with this combination.

Birth control pills (Contraceptive drugs)
Some birth control pills contain estrogen. Alfalfa might have some of the same effects as estrogen. But alfalfa isn't as strong as the estrogen in birth control pills. Taking alfalfa along with birth control pills might decrease the effectiveness of birth control pills. If you take birth control pills along with alfalfa, use an additional form of birth control such as a condom.

Some birth control pills include ethinyl estradiol and levonorgestrel (Triphasil), ethinyl estradiol and norethindrone (Ortho-Novum 1/35, Ortho-Novum 7/7/7), and others.

Estrogens
Large amounts of alfalfa might have some of the same effects as estrogen. But even large amount of alfalfa aren't as strong as estrogen pills. Taking alfalfa along with estrogen pills might decrease the effects of estrogen pills.

Some estrogen pills include conjugated equine estrogens (Premarin), ethinyl estradiol, estradiol, and others.

Medications that decrease the immune system (Immunosuppressants)
Alfalfa might increase the immune system. By increasing the immune system, alfalfa might decrease the effectiveness of medications that decrease the immune system.

Some medications that decrease the immune system include azathioprine (Imuran), basiliximab (Simulect), cyclosporine (Neoral, Sandimmune), daclizumab (Zenapax), muromonab-CD3 (OKT3, Orthoclone OKT3), mycophenolate (CellCept), tacrolimus (FK506, Prograf), sirolimus (Rapamune), prednisone (Deltasone, Orasone), corticosteroids (glucocorticoids), and others.

Medications that increase sensitivity to sunlight (Photosensitizing drugs)
Some medications can increase sensitivity to sunlight. Large doses of alfalfa might also increase your sensitivity to sunlight. Taking alfalfa along with medication that increase sensitivity to sunlight could make you even more sensitive to sunlight, increasing the chances of sunburn, blistering or rashes on areas of skin exposed to sunlight. Be sure to wear sunblock and protective clothing when spending time in the sun.

Some drugs that cause photosensitivity include amitriptyline (Elavil), Ciprofloxacin (Cipro), norfloxacin (Noroxin), lomefloxacin (Maxaquin), ofloxacin (Floxin), levofloxacin (Levaquin), sparfloxacin (Zagam), gatifloxacin (Tequin), moxifloxacin (Avelox), trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole (Septra), tetracycline, methoxsalen (8-methoxypsoralen, 8-MOP, Oxsoralen), and Trioxsalen (Trisoralen).

Are there interactions with herbs and supplements?
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Vitamin E
Alfalfa might interfere with the way the body takes in and uses vitamin E."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/19.html

 

[dannybex]

I was taking Douglas Labs B-complex when DP said to come off them and take only B2 and a small amount of B12 (I use methyl) and had been on them for a while yet I was severely deficient in B2 so much so that I felt a reaction a short while after my first dose. It is also important not to be taking in folic acid or folate especially from fortified foods or milk but also not too much from vegetables. I also had to stop nearly all my supps especially vit c and d but this may have just been for me due to the severity of my shortage. I am also limiting high iron and zinc foods.

Hi Brenda,

This thread is so long, I'm hoping perhaps you can help me cut to the chase, at least in your case: What's the hypothesized connection between riboflavin and vitamin c and d, and also iron and zinc? (My zinc is on the low side, and seem to always have trouble w/vit c).

Thanks in advance,

Dan

 

[brenda]

Hi Dan

Riboflavin is used in the synthesis of vit c and d apparently, iron builds up in the liver as riboflavin is needed to form heme (I think I have that right I am no microbiologist but learning fast) and zinc is - mmm I cant remember that one.

What problem do you have with vit c?

Brenda

 

[Jarod]

Hi Brenda,

This thread is so long, I'm hoping perhaps you can help me cut to the chase, at least in your case: What's the hypothesized connection between riboflavin and vitamin c and d, and also iron and zinc? (My zinc is on the low side, and seem to always have trouble w/vit c).

Thanks in advance,

Dan

Hey Dan. there are two threads on this topic. The other one is in general treatment:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?16781-Hair-Mineral-Testing

both are excellent threads. Member "Dog person" is the member who had made some wonderful posts on the topic of minerals suggesting how they might be affected by correcting one's vitamin B2 status.

Also Dreambirdie mentioned dumping metals in one of her posts after a quick trial of B2. So maybe you can scan(advanced search?) though those threads looking for their commentary without having to wade through everything. This may help you find what you are looking for.

Jarod

 

[brenda]

I wonder whether rich can help us find out what binds iron or where we can go to find out? rich are you there?

 

[Rand56]

You can go to this site and scroll down most of the page to "Iron Antagonists". I wonder if Dog Person agrees with this guy from this site?

http://www.acu-cell.com/femn.html

 

[Rand56]

This is interesting from the site above....

"Heme Iron from meat is about 10 times more absorbable than iron from all plant / vegetable sources."

I sure do eat a lot of meat. Brenda, did DP tell you to cut back on eating meat?

 

[Pea]

"Please do not supplement anything else from your list. Most important that you not take the vitamin D and Vitamin C you listed.These were dramatically depleting your B2

I am interested in this relationship also, or does this only apply to Brenda's particular situation?

 

[Rand56]

Could be another reason why I felt worse taking higher dosages of Vitamin C. Here I thought it was maybe only from lowering cortisol levels. Could have been a double whammy for me.

 

[brenda]

No Rand she only said limit iron foods which I guess does not mean chicken or turkey so I took that to mean eggs too. I will keep off beef though.

The link is very interesting thanks. It says milk thistle but I cant take that.

Pea, I guess that the more iron one has stored the stricter one must be. I am supposing that you will know if you respond pretty quickly.

 

[Rand56]

No Rand she only said limit iron foods which I guess does not mean chicken or turkey so I took that to mean eggs too. I will keep off beef though.

The link is very interesting thanks. It says milk thistle but I cant take that.

Pea, I guess that the more iron one has stored the stricter one must be. I am supposing that you will know if you respond pretty quickly.

OK Brenda but maybe you should get DP's advice first before you start altering things too much. I don't know if this guy from this site knows what DP knows, although I would think he is smarter than the average Joe since he deals with cellular analysis as opposed to serum measurements.

I only pasted that site do bring this into further discussion.

 

[brenda]

B-Complex raises total cholesterol and triglyceride levels, and aggravates preexisting high bile acid-related
complaints, but it would be advantageous for those whose levels are on the low side. (Total cholesterol or
total triglyceride levels are not to be confused with atherogenic aspects and their role in heart disease).

http://www.acu-cell.com/bx.html

Wow I never knew this.

 

[brenda]

Is anyone in touch with DP?

 

[Dog Person]

Disclaimer: It is understood that nutritional balancing therapy is not intended as a diagnosis or prescription or to treat, cure or prevent any disease or health condition, physical or mental. Any nutritional balancing information offered should be considered as general information only. Nutritional balancing information offered is also not intended as a substitute for regular medical care. See your health care provided for diagnosis and treatment of any medical concerns you may have, and before implementing any diet, supplement, exercise or other lifestyle changes. Nutritional balancing is to be used at your own risk. Any alterations, changes or substitutions made to nutritional balancing suggestions are taken at your own risk.

 

[Rand56]

This guys take on B-complex is very interesting and from understanding what DP has said, I'm thinking she would be in agreement with these quotes.....

http://www.acu-cell.com/bx.html

"So-called B-Stress Formulations are designed to presumably help people handle stress better, howevermany people end up feeling more stressed out after taking them. Starting in the '80s, when "Stress Tabs"became popular, a large percentage of patients I had seen came with medical symptoms exclusively relatedto excessive Vitamin B intake (see further below). Ironically, whoever came up with the notion that largeamounts of B-Vitamins reduced stress had it all backwards, nevertheless a lot of self-styled nutritionistsperpetuated that myth, and Vitamin Companies quickly jumped on the bandwagon with each producing theirown brand-specific "Stress Formulations," consisting mainly of high-potency B-Complex vitamins, withvarying amounts of Vitamin C and zinc added to enhance that "stress-fighting" effect."

"When amounts at, or moderately above RDA / DRI levels are consumed, B-Vitamins positively support manymetabolic functions, including carbohydrate, fat and protein metabolism, proper nervous system function,food to energy conversion, red blood cell / hemoglobin formation, and they help improve mood and memory,while providing a better stress-coping ability.However when doses multiple times the recommended daily intake are supplemented, B-Vitamins - like othernutrients - produce stronger therapeutic effects that can vary considerably from one individual to another.Subsequently, depending on age, genetic background, and preexisting medical conditions that impact thebody's ability to cope with 50 mg, 75 mg, and 100 mg+ B-Complex formulations, negative results can easily outweigh the benefits that B-vitamins would otherwise provide when supplemented at much lower amounts."