B2 I love you!

[triffid113]

Dog Person,

I have been very careful to take a good B Complex all my life. I do not believe I have CFS, my genetic profile means I have to keep fighting it all my life (I've always been like the Red Queen, running to stay in place). I do believe my Aunts, Father, and Grandmother had CFS. So I don't know if your offer was only to look at the hair analysees of people with CFS, but if it is open to anyone, I would love to get my Hair Analyzed. I also have an OATs test if that helps. I do not have brain fog. However I keep on getting anemic and that causes low thyroid hormone and - yes - can be foggy until I fix it...so like this morning I started to get foggy - so - OOP - need iron, sucked down a goodly amount of iron, not foggy anymore, but low blood sugar due to it appears to take longer to improve adrenal function. I would benefit from any release of iron. What do you think - can you check mine for any B2 issue? It won't add to your CFS research.

Triffid P.S. If yes, please tell me how to get it to you? Would I post it here or PM you? Thx.

Hi Brenda,

Thought I'd add too your thread quickly. From my working with B2, I've seen that the other B vitamins rely on B2 to be activated or converted or used correctly. So by taking the B complex and juicing which concentrates nutrientes (but not much B2 in veggies compared to the other B's) you kept slowly depleting your storage locations of B2.

The other bad thing about taking a complex is that you can absorb the several thousands of % of the other B's they put in them. But you can only absorb a fraction of the B2 so the complex itself is unbalanced.

 

[triffid113]

Just to be clear; studies show that a maximum of ~27mg riboflavin can be absorbed at a time (taken orally). So taking a 100mg dose is essentially the same as taking 27mg.

Also, studies show that riboflavin is much better absorbed with meals, so I wouldn't take it half hour before.

The half life of riboflavin is about 1 hour.

Well sh*t (Scuuuuuze mah French!)! -- so how are we EVER supposed to get enough B2???!

(btw, alot of people here have digestive issues and I would bet need a higher dose just because they can only absorb some percent of the whole (so like 27% of 100 is 27mg). It might work that way -- I dunno.)

Trif

 

[Rand56]

According to Dog Person, it can take weeks to build up B2 stores. How long exactly I would guess depends on how depleted one was to begin with.

I'm still trying to find out if someone takes a "coenzymated" B-complex, is this further depleting B2 stores because of it's low absorption compared to the other B's? Has this already been answered and I just missed it or are we still waiting for an answer?

 

[adreno]

According to Dog Person, it can take weeks to build up B2 stores. How long exactly I would guess depends on how depleted one was to begin with.

I'm still trying to find out if someone takes a "coenzymated" B-complex, is this further depleting B2 stores because of it's low absorption compared to the other B's? Has this already been answered and I just missed it or are we still waiting for an answer?

As I understand Dog Person (correct me if I'm wrong), taking any B complex, coenzymated or not, will further deplete B2 stores.

 

[Jarod]

I'm taking a product: Optimox "ATP co-factors" that has riboflavin 100 mg, and niacin as inositol hexanicotinate, 500mg (I take half twice a day)

http://www.allstarhealth.com/f/optimox-atp_cofactors.htm

Anybody think that might be ok to take that one combined? or Maybe I need to get a seperate b2 supplement.

I've increased my dose of this tablet for the last two days and think I might have initially got some minor benefit. However, I need a good trial for a couple weeks to know what's going on and will post anything I learn.

 

[brenda]

The aim is to get riboflavin levels up without further depleting them and anything that does so, is removed from the diet including supplements. This is my understanding. When B2 comes up then one will see where other deficiencies lie.

 

[adreno]

This study does substantiate Dog Person's claim, that folic acid depletes B2:

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Riboflavin (vitamin B(2)) is the precursor for FAD, the cofactor for methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR). MTHFR catalyzes the formation of 5-methyltetrahydrofolate, which acts as a methyl donor for homocysteine remethylation. Individuals with the MTHFR 677C-->T mutation have increased plasma total homocysteine (tHcy) concentrations, particularly in association with low folate status. It has been proposed that riboflavin may act together with folate to lower plasma tHcy, particularly in individuals with the thermolabile MTHFR T variant.

METHODS:

We measured B-vitamin status and plasma tHcy in 126 healthy individuals 20-63 years of age (42 CC, 42 CT, and 42 TT MTHFR genotypes) at baseline and after three interventions (4 months): placebo plus natural diet; daily 400 microg folic acid supplement plus natural diet; and increased dietary folate to 400 microg/day.

RESULTS:

At baseline and after nutritional intervention, lower riboflavin status was associated with increased plasma tHcy concentrations. Plasma tHcy was 2.6 micromol/L higher in the lowest plasma riboflavin quartile compared with the highest (P <0.02) and was 4.2 micromol/L higher in the highest erythrocyte glutathione reductase activation coefficient (EGRAC) quartile compared with the lowest (P <0.001). This effect was not restricted to those with the T allele. Folic acid given as a 400 microg/day supplement appeared to exacerbate a tendency toward riboflavin deficiency, as suggested by an increase in the proportion of individuals with EGRAC > or =1.4 from 52% to 65% after supplementation (P <0.05).

CONCLUSIONS:

Folate and riboflavin interact to lower plasma tHcy, possibly by maximizing the catalytic activity of MTHFR. The effect may be unrelated to MTHFR genotype.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12560354/

But I only see this as a problem with folic acid, not methylfolate.

 

[aquariusgirl]

To anyone trying this B2 thing: can you tell me if you're experiencing any eye symptoms? (itchy, kind of stinging) I can't decide whether it's a histamine reaction or the result of increased vascularisation (google the b2 connection to that). thanks.

 

[Dreambirdie]

To anyone trying this B2 thing: can you tell me if you're experiencing any eye symptoms? (itchy, kind of stinging) I can't decide whether it's a histamine reaction or the result of increased vascularisation (google the b2 connection to that). thanks.

I only took the B2 for three days, and I did notices some eye itching.... BUT I am not sure if that was the B2 or spring pollen allergies?

 

[brenda]

My corneal erosions have comeback and I think it is because inflamation has increased due to stopping most of my supplements so I went back on vit E and will take picnogenol tonight. The eyes are not itching though.

 

[justy]

Well. i took half a 20mg tablet of B2 today and two hours later i had a very bright yellow urine. I've read that this means i am taking more than i need. 10mg doesnt seem like that much to me - i was planning on upping it to 20. Any idea on this - have others had this issue - i know its normal with B2, but as i thought i might be deficient i didnt expect it.
All the best, Justy.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Justy--I actually COUGHED UP bright yellow-orange mucous in the middle of the night on the first day I took the B2. (I had taken 3 doses of 12.5 mg that day.) Dog Person's take on this was that it was the result of excess iron being detoxed from my body via the mucous. After that I took one day off and lowered my dose to just 2 doses of 12.5 mg. I had more detox symptoms--feeling wired, insomnia, etc---all the stuff I get when heavy metals start being mobilized from my system. Then I picked up a viral infection and decided to stop the B2.

In my case the B2 was at least as rough as the MB12. Even small doses trigger a detox. I can's handle that right now and am going to try it in a month or so, after the worst of pollen season is over and the trees are done sprouting their catkins.

 

[justy]

Wow dreambirdie - that sounds rough. Hmm, i had a hard time with MB12 at normal doses too, i have finally been able to slowly ramp it up, but still at only half the dose prescribed to me. I'm lucky that i dont suffer with the pollen too much - but late summer when they mow and thresh the hay is awful (dust i think)
Hope the virus clears up soon.
Take care, Justy.

 

[maddietod]

Just to add this information: Those of us taking Douglas Labs' B-Complex are getting 20mg of B2 per capsule. So most people on the active methylation protocol are getting 20-40mg/day.

Madie

 

[brenda]

I was taking Douglas Labs B-complex when DP said to come off them and take only B2 and a small amount of B12 (I use methyl) and had been on them for a while yet I was severely deficient in B2 so much so that I felt a reaction a short while after my first dose. It is also important not to be taking in folic acid or folate especially from fortified foods or milk but also not too much from vegetables. I also had to stop nearly all my supps especially vit c and d but this may have just been for me due to the severity of my shortage. I am also limiting high iron and zinc foods.

I feel great today better than for along long time it is really working and I have tried everything.

I also pee yellow with it. It is normal.

Brenda

 

[maddietod]

Brenda, it might be somewhere on this thread, but....

What is the preferred ratio amongst the B vitamins?

Is there any test for B2 that doesn't require a doctor?

I'm juggling a lot of balls in my healing process, and it wouldn't be smart for me to limit vegetables at the moment, in the absence of tests indicating a related problem. My food choices are already pretty restricted.

 

[brenda]

There is no prefered ratio we have different needs and deficiencies especially if we have using B complexes according to the theory. I am getting the rest of my B`s from my diet which now includes raw milk cheese as giving up dairy also led to my severe deficiency. The hair mineral test shows if B2 is deficient. It is best to go to a lab which does not wash the hair first. My food choices are limited too and I did not think I could do it but I just do my best and not worry about it if I eat too much folate in one day -its the balance over days which counts I think. Im not sweating it and my body even feels more relaxed though I get some bad days.I do worry about the cancer thing though.

 

[fozzaw]

Justy--I actually COUGHED UP bright yellow-orange mucous in the middle of the night on the first day I took the B2. (I had taken 3 doses of 12.5 mg that day.) Dog Person's take on this was that it was the result of excess iron being detoxed from my body via the mucous. After that I took one day off and lowered my dose to just 2 doses of 12.5 mg. I had more detox symptoms--feeling wired, insomnia, etc---all the stuff I get when heavy metals start being mobilized from my system. Then I picked up a viral infection and decided to stop the B2.

In my case the B2 was at least as rough as the MB12. Even small doses trigger a detox. I can's handle that right now and am going to try it in a month or so, after the worst of pollen season is over and the trees are done sprouting their catkins.

My take would be that the yellow is just excess B2 being excreted. If you had excess mucous, that is an interesting result. From my own recent experience, not tolerating B2 and B12 suggests other issues that need to be dealt with first. I avoid saying "detox" because it is not a useful description. Without any further insight, it is always a semantic dead end, an intellectual cop-out. So the hard work is in figuring out what's actually going on.

 

[maddietod]

There is no prefered ratio we have different needs and deficiencies especially if we have using B complexes according to the theory. I am getting the rest of my B`s from my diet which now includes raw milk cheese as giving up dairy also led to my severe deficiency. The hair mineral test shows if B2 is deficient. It is best to go to a lab which does not wash the hair first. My food choices are limited too and I did not think I could do it but I just do my best and not worry about it if I eat too much folate in one day -its the balance over days which counts I think. Im not sweating it and my body even feels more relaxed though I get some bad days.I do worry about the cancer thing though.

I have a hair minerals test from 1999, and there is no information about B vitamins on it. Are tests different now?

 

[brenda]

It is the way minerals are deposited in the hair and the toxin build up which indicate that the processes which need B2 have been disrupted according to the theory.