Anyone feel BETTER after getting the Covid vax?

[L'engle]

Are there any people who got the AZ or JJ vaccines that had improvements to their long covid, or only with the mRNA varieties?

 

[nyanko_the_sane]

I am certainly not feeling better. I just had my second Moderna dose yesterday and I liken it to an assault on my nervous system. I am so very crashed and in so much pain, But mark my words, I do think it was totally worth it.

 

[2Cor.12:19]

I am certainly not feeling better. I just had my second Moderna dose yesterday and I liken it to an assault on my nervous system. I am so very crashed and in so much pain, But mark my words, I do think it was totally worth it.

I’m sorry 😞. I felt much sicker with my 2nd Moderna shot. 101 fever. By day 3 I felt fine. Hope you spring back in the next few days.

 

[Gingergrrl]

What I mean is....... when the immune system is stimulated (ie by a vaccine) it's not just stimulation of the infection fighting part of the immune system that gets stimulated. Other elememnts of immunity that help to stop immune system over reacting are enhanced.

That theory could possibly explain why some people with ME/CFS and other autoimmune diseases are experiencing improvement of symptoms (at least temporarily) after getting the vaccine.

I am researching this in great detail and was wondering if either of you had any links or citations for what you just stated b/c I would LOVE to read them (and discuss with my doctor).

@andyguitar I agree with the first part of your statement that vaccines are extremely immuno-stimulatory and can stimulate the part of the immune system that fights infections. But I hadn't heard about the second part of your statement (which I bolded above) that vaccines help to stop other elements of the immune system that are overreacting. My understanding (from my doctors and my research) is that it is the opposite and vaccines can create or re-trigger the parts of the immune system that are over-reacting.

@2Cor.12:19 I was curious if you had heard or read of examples of people with known autoimmune diseases that experienced improvement after the COVID vaccine (not ME/CFS or Long COVID but other autoimmune diseases). Thanks!

 

[andyguitar]

But I hadn't heard about the second part of your statement (which I bolded above) that vaccines help to stop other elements of the immune system that are overreacting.

Ok here is a brief example: The Moderna jab induced Type 1 helper T cells (TH 1) responses. TH1 inhibits Type 2 Helper (T2) cells cytokine production. As you might guess at the moment I am trying to find out what vaccine raises/lowers what immune cell. And why that could have an effect on me/cfs. So far it seems effect of Moderna jab is different to the other ones. But it's a long story......

 

[2Cor.12:19]

@2Cor.12:19 I was curious if you had heard or read of examples of people with known autoimmune diseases that experienced improvement after the COVID vaccine (not ME/CFS or Long COVID but other autoimmune diseases). Thanks!

@Gingergrrl I have Hashimoto's if that counts My daughter has several AA's including RA and a rare blood clotting disease - I don't know that she felt any better afterward, but her side effects were minimal.
@vision blue mentioned it here

Awesome! SEveral folks with AI disease (and not CFS) report this as well.
Can you take the poll on vaccine effects if you get a chance? it's called POLL 3...

(maybe it was like kicking the televisioan and you reset some stuck switch...)

 

[andyguitar]

My understanding (from my doctors and my research) is that it is the opposite and vaccines can create or re-trigger the parts of the immune system that are over-reacting.

Yes they can do that but also vaccines can increase levels of T Regulatory cells. This is to stop the immune system getting out of control.

 

[2Cor.12:19]

@Gingergrrl @andyguitar -We’ve got a conversation about this going in the Reddit Autoimmunity community and here’s what 1 person wrote:

“ u/143Benjee avatar
143Benjee
26m
Yes! This is me and I've been trying to figure out well as well. I'm a medical writer and I'm pouring through studies. It seems like from my anecdotal research about 60% of people get short flares with autoimmune disease, 25% no symptoms at all, and 5% actually feel a bit better for 2-3 days. Of the people who respond, I would love to hear what condition you actually have--I'm not sure if this is condition specific but I have a theory that a lot of people with post-viral stuff (chronic fatigue, fibro or an autoimmune disease triggered by a virus) seem to get better even just short term. And whether you had a virus triggering it that you can recall. (Some vaccines kick start your immune system to fight a variety of viruses”

 

[andyguitar]

And whether you had a virus triggering it that you can recall. (Some vaccines kick start your immune system to fight a variety of viruses”

Ah it sounds like this person believes me/cfs is caused by a latent virus and stimulating the immune system will fight the "latent virus". A popular idea in the me/cfs world is that symptoms are caused by a latent virus- herpes, epstein barre and so on.

 

[2Cor.12:19]

Ah it sounds like this person believes me/cfs is caused by a latent virus and stimulating the immune system will fight the "latent virus". A popular idea in the me/cfs world is that symptoms are caused by a latent virus- herpes, epstein barre and so on.

I’m not sure if they were saying that. I think they were just referring to chronic illnesses that began with a virus- like my ME/CFS began with an acute Epstein Barr infection- and some believe MS mat be linked as well.
But who knows?

 

[MrTwoToedSloth]

Just wanted to report back and say that after 5 days of feeling much better than average after my first jab of Moderna, I hung out with some friends, crashed hard and subsequently have been in a fatigue rut.

Looking forward to the second jab. Maybe I'll get some brief relief again.

 

[andyguitar]

Have any of the benefits stayed with you @MrTwoToedSloth ?

 

[vision blue]

So far it seems effect of Moderna jab is different to the other ones. But it's a long story......

Hard not to want to hear an elaboration of this...YOu can always just paste in the link if its too time consuming and effortful to summarize?

 

[vision blue]

@MrTwoToedSloth I know this is off topic so moderators please forgive me, but find myself really wanting to know why you went with the two toed sloth rather than the three toed sloth?

 

[andyguitar]

Hard not to want to hear an elaboration of this...YOu can always just paste in the link if its too time consuming and effortful to summarize?

I haven't found much worth posting yet. But the attached might be of interest. It shows some differences in how Mrna and the adeno jabs work. Has a helpful diagram.

 

[andyguitar]

Are there any people who got the AZ or JJ vaccines that had improvements to their long covid, or only with the mRNA varieties?

Yes there has been a small study in Bristol UK. Improvement was the same for both Pfizer and Astrazen jab.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Gingergrrl I have Hashimoto's if that counts

It's definitely an autoimmune disease and I have Hashimoto's, too. If it was my only diagnosis and no other autoimmunity or MCAS, I would 100% get the vaccine. My concern is about the B-cell driven autoantibodies that I spent 3-years of infusions to suppress and eliminate.

My daughter has several AA's including RA and a rare blood clotting disease - I don't know that she felt any better afterward, but her side effects were minimal.

Was she in remission from her RA, blood clotting disease, and other autoimmune conditions but still felt it was worth risking her remission to get the vaccine?

Yes they can do that but also vaccines can increase levels of T Regulatory cells. This is to stop the immune system getting out of control.

I don't understand what this means?

I'm not sure if this is condition specific but I have a theory that a lot of people with post-viral stuff (chronic fatigue, fibro or an autoimmune disease triggered by a virus) seem to get better even just short term. And whether you had a virus triggering it that you can recall. (Some vaccines kick start your immune system to fight a variety of viruses”

I think if someone recently had a virus that was chronically re-activating (like chronic EBV or another post-viral condition) than this makes sense that the vaccine might improve their symptoms due to stimulating the immune system. But I would think it would be the opposite for someone w/a progressive autoimmune disease over the course of many years (meaning someone who was long past the post-viral stage even if their illness was initially triggered by a virus). I don't know if I explained that where it makes sense?

 

[andyguitar]

Yes they can do that but also vaccines can increase levels of T Regulatory cells.

T Regulatory cells are also called Suppressor Cells. So they regulate the immune response when you get an infection or have a vaccine.

 

[Strawberry]

Vaccine round #1 definitely didn’t help me. I feel awful. And this probably describes me well.

But I would think it would be the opposite for someone w/a progressive autoimmune disease over the course of many years (meaning someone who was long past the post-viral stage even if their illness was initially triggered by a virus). I don't know if I explained that where it makes sense?

 

[Gingergrrl]

T Regulatory cells are also called Suppressor Cells. So they regulate the immune response when you get an infection or have a vaccine.

But wouldn't this assume that the person getting the vaccine has a normal functioning immune system to begin with (in order for their T-reg cells to properly regulate the immune response when they get a vaccine)? In someone w/a history of severe autoimmunity, their immune system does not function normally at baseline and vaccines are extremely immuno-stimulatory. I don't know anything about T-reg cells but I would assume they do not behave appropriately in regulating the immune system in someone with autoimmunity?