Alternative Non-Surgical Possibilities for Addressing CCI/AAI or Other Serious Neck Issues

[valentinelynx]

Just a thought to all of those who want to try to mechanically stretch their own craniocervical junctions. I actually tried this with one of those inflatable traction things when this CCI concept first reared its head last year sometime. No effect. However, now I've had several PT session for manual cervical traction. In the first session, the PT was at first unable to elicit any movement in my neck with traction. After probably over 20 years of neck tension, my muscles were solidly locked. She was able to overcome this by first apply compression, which allowed the muscles and ligaments to release enough that she could achieve some motion in traction.

I felt incredibly high after this treatment. My point is that if you have CCI, you may not be able to achieve traction on your own, if your neck structures are as rigid as mine were. And I have been getting massage every week or two and doing neck stretches every night for many years; I never would have suspected my neck was so tight. I recommend professional assistance if you are interested in trying traction.

 

[pattismith]

@valentinelynx

I developed a neck stretching physio, to relax neck muscle and stretch neck spine. I believe it is much softer than a true traction, but it is already a traction with the power of your head weight only.
you can do it either standing, either sit;

(I found this when I was looking for a way to relieve my ear plugged:

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/ear-pressure-plugged-ears-clogged-ears.53423/#post-898499
)

it is a bit like that, but with the body and head BETWEEN THE LEGS (this mean legs apart);

You must relax you neck and let your head weight pull your spine toward the floor)

so it is a bit like that, BUT WITH THE ARMS HANGING BETWEEN THE LEGS

 

[PatJ]

electromagnetism might have applications to healing ligaments. However so far he emphasizes the need for the exact right kind of current and right amount of current and I feel like there are a lot of quack devices out there taking advantage of the knowledge that electromagnetism can heal but lacking the specifications to actually work

SOTA in Canada was approved by Dr. Beck for creating devices that were faithful to his specifications. They're also recommended by The Bob Beck Legacy Association (bobbeck.com). Their Magnetic Pulser is a PEMF (pulsed electromagnetic field device) that is unusually strong and is built to last for over 30 million pulses. The magnetic field can reach up to 9 inches into the body on regular mode (6000 guass/0.6 Tesla), or 7 inches on fast mode (2500 gauss). It's currently $380 USD.

It was originally developed to get lymph flowing better and to neutralize pathogens:

"Unlike low-intensity PEMF systems that focus their application more on frequencies and waveform delivery, Bob Beck’s magnetic pulser’s design objective is to generate small electric current (microcurrent) using strong magnetic field pulses, reaching internal organ parts that are usually hard to reach by other electrotherapy approaches (i.e. electric pulser). Bob Beck principle of treatment is to use an inductively coupled magnetic pulse generator for theoretical lymph and tissue pathogen neutralization." (http://pemf.sg/sota/bob-becks-magnetic-pulser/)

I've been using the magnetic pulser for a couple of weeks along my lymph nodes, along with the blood electrifier and a decade-long swollen lymph node in my neck is finally reducing, sometimes almost to a normal size but it fluctuates a lot.

I don't think I have CCI but I do have an old cervical spine injury from a virus that attacked my spinal cord, so I'm going to start using the pulser on my spine to see what happens.

Here is a DuckDuckGo search for 'pemf cervical instability'.

And I will: put on my Rare Earth Magnets....these really help the cervical area. I wear them when I"m in more pain. I think I should wear them: more often.

A PEMF device would probably help even more. They're becoming more well known for relieving inflammation along with increasing blood flow to specific areas to speed healing, and have other benefits.

Dr. Pawluk's site has a lot of PEMF info.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

They're becoming more well known for relieving inflammation along with increasing blood flow to specific areas to speed healing, and have other benefits.

Very interesting......thanks.....

 

[Mary]

First, thanks @Wayne for this thread! I didn't really take notice of it before when you first started it, but after reading so much the last couple of days about JenB and Jeff and Starhild56's progress and neck issues, etc., my antennae are on high alert for these issues! I have some neck issues, nothing as severe as so many people here, but I do have reverse lordosis in my neck, my neck muscles are always tight, I had an Atlas adjustment done which helped the stiffness some, but no other effects. Anyways, I'm beginning to think perhaps I should take it a bit more seriously and see what I can do to help it.

Wouldn't an inversion table create short amounts of decompression in the cervical spine? I was thinking of trying one, not going fully upside down but just enough to feel a decompression effect.

I went fully upside down thinking I would be okay getting back up right. I was not okay getting back upright.
Took massive amounts of effort that significantly worsed heart symptoms. I did get back up but only just. I had a headache the whole next day. Perhaps only being slightly inclined will be much better.

@BadBadBear - This popped into my head two days ago as a possible treatment though I'm guessing that for someone with severe issues it might not be a good idea. I'm going to do some more reading.
@sb4 - that's one thing I've worried about with an inversion table - getting stuck! I think one would have to go slowly, and definitely start with a slight incline. If I do get a table, I'll make sure that someone else is there the first time I try it to make sure I could manage it on my own - because my cat certainly wouldn't be able to help!

Also, @pattismith 's exercises in her post above look intriguing and definitely worth a try!

 

[Mary]

@pattismith - how long do you hold the positions shown in your illustrations? I tried something similar, but opposite, yesterday - I lay on my bed on my back and let my head and neck hang over the side of the bed, letting the weight of my head stretch my neck. Though I did have to use my neck muscles some to keep it stable - I think your exercises are probably better. But after hanging my head off the side of the bed for only a minute or so, maybe less, I felt/heard some cracking in my neck vertebrae - there was some movement, a little, and it felt good. Ordinarily my neck is way too tight, I think due to a reversed lordotic curve.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I think due to a reversed lordotic curve

There are a number of you tube videos including Physical Therapist types who show some good simple exercises to help strengthen the neck and the "over time" common problem of the curvature, needing to tuck chin and lengthen back of neck and extend skyhook.

Note to self: do more of these exercises....

Been experiencing, here, when I lie down, then get up and lift my neck: its all tied into the jaw, tendons go glitching, feels weird. More: just this whole area.

Note to self: work on lymph also.

 

[Mary]

There are a number of you tube videos including Physical Therapist types who show some good simple exercises to help strengthen the neck and the "over time" common problem of the curvature, needing to tuck chin and lengthen back of neck and extend skyhook.

Thanks @Rufous McKinney, the youtube videos are definitely worth checking out. But I don't think my curve is due to an "over time" progression. I had something very heavy fall on my head when I was 11 - it literally stunned me. I've mentioned this to chiropractors who've taken x-rays which show definite neck problems and they've agreed that could have been the start of it all.

I'm also wondering if my neck is similar to @valentinelynx - it sounds very similar where she says:

After probably over 20 years of neck tension, my muscles were solidly locked.

That's how my neck feels. One chiro said something to the effect that my neck muscles were in the soldier position - rigidly standing at attention (something like that!). I've never had PT for my neck. I'm just starting to explore all these possibilities!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

had something very heavy fall on my head when I was 11

After living a life for a while now: things like: take gymnastics, Go leaping,....well it just does not seem like good advice unless your: really wanting to be an Olympian.

Fallling objects ! Gosh!!

 

[Wayne]

magnesium and vitamin c are both hugely responsible for healing ligaments

Thanks for mentioning this @sunshine44 -- Healing ligaments is really big in my own thinking, and I've tried to get plenty of magnesium and Vitamin C over the years with the health, strengthening, and healing of ligaments in mind. I've also gotten into the habit of consuming plenty of bone broth, which contain a number of good things for collagen, ligament and tendon health.

Something that has really fired my imagination recently, is discovering and learning about a bioidentical peptide called BPC-157 that purportedly has a unique ability to initiate some pretty dramatic healing in ligaments. To give you an idea of how powerful this is, I've read numerous testimonials already by people who've been "floxed" [suffered severe ligament damage from taking a fluoroquinolone antibiotic, such as Levaquin, Cipro, etc.], and were able to experience pretty dramatic improvements as a result.

Of course, I immediately thought of its implications for people with CCI/AAI, and whether its utility could possibly correct it--and perhaps even avoid surgery (or safely postpone it). I also thought about its possible utility in helping heal and strengthen ligaments post-surgery. @jeff_w @JenB.

The more I read about it, the more I became convinced it has the potential to help many people with ME/CFS, not only because of its purported ability to promote healing of ligaments, but of the entire GI tract as well. Interestingly, this peptide is normally made in the body as part of our gastric juices. So people who use this product are often able to heal a wide variety of digestive and absorption disorders.

A simplifed equation that came to mind: -- Better Digestion/Better Absorption = Less Leaky Gut/Better Immune Function. Here's a link to a pretty good article on it: -- BPC 157: An In Dept Review and The Science Behind it
Here's a snippet:

""Research on BPC-157 has been on-going since 1991 and results thereof indicate that the peptide has the ability to repair damaged teeth, bones, muscles, tendons, and even intestines. This data is based on in-vitro lab tests as well as in-vivo studies conducted on both rodents and humans. Some of the human trials involved injecting the peptide under the skin (subcutaneously) and into the muscles (intramuscularly).

SuppVersity published an article on BPC-157 which showed that the peptide has the following healing benefits:

• Heal’s tendons and bones in a way that rivals conventional surgical methods;
• Stimulates the healing of the bones and ligaments by promoting improved cell survival and cell migration. These results are based on rodent research on mice that were affected by an Achilles tendon rupture. The mice had the peptide administered to them through drinking water;
• It has the ability to offset the gut-damaging effects that you get from taking NSAIDs like Advil and Ibuprofen. Scientists were so amazed at the results that they called BPC-157 an antidote to NSAIDs;
• Mice with inflammatory bowel disease healed within days of orally ingesting the peptide;""

When I started delving into getting some BPC, I noticed a somewhat complex landscape. It's not likely to be extensively tested on humans, as it's not patentable. It's currently available OTC and by prescription. I've noticed it's on Amazon, but it kind of feels like the wild, wild west out there, and don't know whether to trust it.

I ran this by my Physical Therapist, and she immediately saw the potential implications for a number of her clients. I told her I would be interested if she were able to get pharmaceutical grade BPC-157 through her clinic, and at this time is looking into it. My hope is she can secure a high quality product at a reasonable price.

The literature (and videos) I've looked at mostly talk about injecting it directly into ligaments (and muscles and tendons), but it's also mentioned that some people take it orally. It's been believed that injecting it is more effective (and it appears more expensive), but I've also read about surprisingly good results from taking it orally.

With my long-term experience with DMSO (and its remarkable safety profile), I've come to believe applying it transdermally using DMSO would probably be the most effective route for me to go. I've got an appointment with my P.T. next week, and am hoping she has some good news for me on this front.

As I was looking around online for BPC-157 information, I ran across a guy on the RayPeat forum who posted about HIS OWN EXPERIENCE with it. He shared a number of details that would seem relevant to many of us with ME/CFS. -- Since it's just a testimonial, I'll just go ahead and paste a couple of his posts below:

This is a copy and paste of a BPC-157 testimonial that was posted on the RayPeat.com forum

""I’m having great results using BPC 157 for a variety of issues right now. Old lingering muscular injuries, leaky gut and gaba/glutamate issues I.E. anxiety. – So far there’s no doubt it is very effective at accelerating the healing of tendon and ligament.

Old aches and pains have faded quickly. It’s still early but my normal GI issues have been minimal even when getting into stuff I know I shouldn’t because it causes me issues. Dairy, caffeine and grains.

I have had zero negative side effects. I have more energy and honestly havn't felt the mild depression that I experience at times. It usually comes and goes without any reason. I have a good life and nothing to complain about but sometimes just get this down in the dumps feeling.

So far that’s been gone. No risk of toxicity. I don’t see any downsides besides it’s sold as “research purposes only”. I found a US based lab to purchase from. Expensive compared to rest but I trust their product.

However you can find medical centers who will connect you with a doctor and prescribe these peptides. Expensive route to go but great option for those who feel they have tried everything.

Just sharing ""
.........................................................

""I healed my leaky gut. I no longer am suffering from GI issues, brain fog, energy problems and skin issues that I have for years.

Important note: I DO NOT SELL this stuff. – I’m merely sharing my experience because I believe it could help some people. Do your research on this stuff like I did and make an educated decision if you think it could be a game changer like it has been for me.

BPC 157 is a synthetic peptide (peptide is a string of amino acids). This peptide was designed off of our own gastric juices. It has been found to have profound healing benefits. Gut, brain and muscle/tendon.

There are NO side effects reported at all . No toxicity issues at all. This is a bio identical peptide. Synthetic yes but it’s structured like what’s already in our body.

This stuff has blown me away with how helpful it has been with my slew of health issues. It’s completely under the radar, very few health professionals are even aware of it. You can purchase these peptides yourself online. The market is not regulated so that’s where purchasing from a reliable source is important. Again not selling so I won’t even recommend one. Make sure it comes from a 3rd party tested source.

BUT!! – If you have the money you can find medical centers that synthesize this compound and will connect you with a US based doctor. Titan Medical and Tailor Made compounding both do this. I have no doubt it could be pricey.

I’m pretty much sharing this information with all the groups I discuss health with. A number of people have reported similar benefits. Read anecdotal reports on this stuff they are overwhelming positive. Good luck on your health journey everyone!! ""

Yeah, I was thinking something like THIS. It's a non invasive halo vest.

Thanks @sb4 --Looks very interesting! Thanks for posting that link.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Thank you for sharing this: very interesting!!!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

but I do have reverse lordosis in my neck, my neck muscles are always tight

FYI: here is this other spinal issue I was not aware of....until recently.

Sheuermann's kyphosis (in Germans, maybe others). This leads to uneven growth of the thoracic lumbar region....(but also can affect the neck above). It causes a rounded upper back, sometimes a more barrel chest (not here).

So: I probably have a mild form of SK; plus mild scoliolis, and lordosis. And now: neck unravelings.

Cousin King Richard.

 

[sunshine44]

Very interesting Wayne! Thank you for sharing and starting this thread.

I agree its a large piece of the puzzle, healing these ligaments, etc.

 

[Mary]

@Rufous McKinney - so it sounds like you have several neck/spine issues. Have you looked into any sort of treatment? Based on what I've been reading here, it might help with ME/CFS symptoms.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

@Rufous McKinney - so it sounds like you have several neck/spine issues. Have you looked into any sort of treatment? Based on what I've been reading here, it might help with ME/CFS symptoms.

Its just so interesting how these issues: erupt, cluster, spread, congeal, subside, rest, erupt again.

I've had none of those types of tests, and perhaps I should, just to better understand what is going on. When I return from a trip to see my new grandaughter...I would like to: find out more.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

so it is a bit like that, BUT WITH THE ARMS HANGING BETWEEN THE LEGS

How long do you typically hang out in this position? Do you increase the time spent?

 

[rel8ted]

that's one thing I've worried about with an inversion table - getting stuck

They are designed for the table to aid you in getting back up when you are ready. If it is set properly. The table should “lift” you when you start to shift your weight toward the foot end. In other words, if you wven act like you want to get up, it will make sure you can.

 

[frozenborderline]

BPC 157 is a synthetic peptide (peptide is a string of amino acids). This peptide was designed off of our own gastric juices. It has been found to have profound healing benefits. Gut, brain and muscle/tendon.

There are NO side effects reported at all . No toxicity issues at all. This is a bio identical peptide. Synthetic yes but it’s structured like what’s already in our body.

This stuff has blown me away with how helpful it has been with my slew of health issues. It’s completely under the radar, very few health professionals are even aware of it. You can purchase these peptides yourself online. The market is not regulated so that’s where purchasing from a reliable source is important. Again not selling so I won’t even recommend one. Make sure it comes from a 3rd party tested source.

BUT!! – If you have the money you can find medical centers that synthesize this compound and will connect you with a US based doctor. Titan Medical and Tailor Made compounding both do this. I have no doubt it could be pricey.

I am very curious about this. My doctors office has started offering people thymosin alpha 1, an immune stimulating bio identical peptide, from tailor made pharmacy. I talked to them about bpc-157 and they were interested in possibly ordering this. Im almost just commenting on this to remind myself about it. Gotta keep thinkinng about possible non surgical solutions here, even though I’m sick enough that surgery would be warranted. Because I would hate to miss something that could help, before getting surgery

 

[frozenborderline]

I use an inversion table. It is helpful and i don’t get the rebound effect I get with traction, so maybe it’s like gentler traction applied more evenly? Only downside is if you don’t use some kind of harness it will fuck up your ankles

 

[frozenborderline]

Just a thought to all of those who want to try to mechanically stretch their own craniocervical junctions. I actually tried this with one of those inflatable traction things when this CCI concept first reared its head last year sometime. No effect. However, now I've had several PT session for manual cervical traction. In the first session, the PT was at first unable to elicit any movement in my neck with traction. After probably over 20 years of neck tension, my muscles were solidly locked. She was able to overcome this by first apply compression, which allowed the muscles and ligaments to release enough that she could achieve some motion in traction.

I felt incredibly high after this treatment. My point is that if you have CCI, you may not be able to achieve traction on your own, if your neck structures are as rigid as mine were. And I have been getting massage every week or two and doing neck stretches every night for many years; I never would have suspected my neck was so tight. I recommend professional assistance if you are interested in trying traction.

I had a similar result. My PT says that when there’s instability, the muscles guard by becoming overly tense. Sometimes negative traction results are for this reason I’m convinced. When I take muscle relaxers it helpssome of my symptoms but some of the neurological symptoms get worse, and I can feel my vertebrae being too loose, it’s very odd