Active B12 Protocol Basics

[Athene*]

@Freddd
Great to hear from you again.

Can you say what doses of minerals you take now you've achieved homeostasis? (That's some achievement).

I think you said you use B-right vits again? Will you be putting up a post on your current protocol?

The reason I ask is that I've been titrating lithium orotate to 20mg daily for almost 3 yrs now and suddenly I seem to be able to use my b12 for longer and don't need to switch between the folate & carnitines so much. Potassium seems more stable.

I'd like to try lowering all the high doses of b12 injections (10mg x3 daily), mfolate (50mg daily) & minerals etc but don't know where to start.

Can't thank you enough for how you've shared your experience. I was bedridden and becoming intermittently paralysed in legs and arms in 2014 and am now walking daily and exercising with weights.

 

[Sophiedw]

Yay @Freddd

 

[Freddd]

@Freddd
Great to hear from you again.

Can you say what doses of minerals you take now you've achieved homeostasis? (That's some achievement).

I think you said you use B-right vits again? Will you be putting up a post on your current protocol?

The reason I ask is that I've been titrating lithium orotate to 20mg daily for almost 3 yrs now and suddenly I seem to be able to use my b12 for longer and don't need to switch between the folate & carnitines so much. Potassium seems more stable.

I'd like to try lowering all the high doses of b12 injections (10mg x3 daily), mfolate (50mg daily) & minerals etc but don't know where to start.

Can't thank you enough for how you've shared your experience. I was bedridden and becoming intermittently paralysed in legs and arms in 2014 and am now walking daily and exercising with weights.

Hi Athene,

Well it has been a while. I started the Lithium about 5 years ago, starting at 5 mg and going to 30 mg daily and then centered in on 20 mg/day. I found several stages of lithium effectiveness. The first one was about 6 months in. I was driving from SLC to Denver by way of the continental divide 2 hours n-east from SLC. I started feeling like I was low on potassium, I was. Having hypokalemia pop up hard in 2 hours was a mystery I had rumn into in studies done in the 50s. Now I know. It is a particular step of cell making that occurs when the lithium "demands" red cells made right now. So one mystery demonstrated. I did early on an N=1000 common language symptoms database from people. About half of them had clusters of low b12 symptoms. Of that 75% taking MeCbl 1000 mcg sublingual had the initial response during the interview. those 75% of responders started responding in 5 to 10 minutes from mouth to brain. Later I found the rest needed different "first nutrient" to start cells being made in 10 minutes or less.

At year 3 I was doing 20mg/day of lithium. I went from MeCbl 10 mg each 8 hours and increased the 2 hours down to 1 injection a day over some weeks. From there I decreased to 3 weeks, 1 day increased between each injection for one injection ranging from 5 mg to 10 mg.

So during 2 to 5 years my liver healed, got rid of non-alcoholic fatty liver, and filled up the TransCobalamin Receptor -Lithium in the liver and my kidneys. My eGFR went from 59% for decades to 79%.. The kidneys are another organ with high levels of TCR-Li. I did thousands of injections through the years of MeCbl. For 10mg injections, plenty of red B12 shows up in the urine in 60-120 minutes. After 4 years of lithium, and 2-3 weeks between injections there is no B12 visible at all until after 8 hours and between 8 to 18 hours before the first visible part of B12 becomes visible and then just a dribble at a time came out over up to about 12 more hours of seeing it coming out slowly.. The TCR-Li passes through the kidneys repeatedly each hour and presumably shedding into the urine whatever the B12 picks up and dumps into the urine. TCR-Li is said to take and clean up all forms of cobalamin where as the haptocorrin is very fussy and only absorbs animal found cobalamins. The TCR-Li strips the ligand each time it goes through the kidney and dumps to urine. That needs to be proved in study and just what it dumps each time through and how it "decides" to dispose of cbl as well after a while.

TCR-Li has a LOT to do with homeostasis, I don't know why or how, but I have experienced it. To make TCR-Li requires cob[ii] which TCR-Li also outputs. In place of cob[ii] one has to have MeCbl and AdoCbl in the right proportion. HyCbl, CyCbl, AdoCbl can all cause methyltrap in place of MeCbl or COB[II].


I found that it is more stable with potassium but it goes down slower and eventually you have to keep it up there or you can get in trouble fast after thinking it is stable. I was unable to get a balance of copper and get it higher and prevents low copper cased high MCV.

I'm glad to here that you are doing so much better. All in all there were about 5 stages of TCR-Li, minimal Li was oral absorption of B12 FROM MEAT in 5 minutes. From tablets the oral TCR-Li can absorb 10 mcg of B12 per minute. A 5 mg tablet can absorb 750-1250 mcg from 5 mg tablet in 1 hour. I do one injection a month right now and experiment with tablets at different. I also take the small amount in B-Right daily and I can see some small amount of cbl 4-8 hours after taking my morning B-Right capsule.

Let's of various effects. Different ways of taking, different doses and responses are different in excretion. I started up . with the B-Right again as I would have one pathway close down and need a different form of a nutrient to work. Lots of hypothecizes, lots still to find out and WOW! is what I can say for now.

Be well.

 

[Freddd]

Freddd has volunteered he has some unique genetics not shared by other ME/CFS patients.

And, needs for methylation nutrients can vary quite widely due to both genetic and environmental factors.

There is no substitute for comprehensive nutrient testing like a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval FMV with amino acids.

I wish RichVank was still around and would love to go over the Lithium with him;.. This was the search for the unknown micronutrient that he assured me had to exist and I agreed. When I hit that 75% had response, that was for all intents is the same as CyCbl and HyCbl and MeCbl with 25-35% of people having no response on whatever cbl they try. And it turns out that Lithium in TCR-Li (transcobalamin Receptor-Lithium). Now it appears that the Lithium in TCR-Li appears to be the manager of homeostasis. Instead of electrolytes being all screwed up, Li deficiency causes the problem of unstable electrolytes. This is all hypothesis and observation over 5 years of lithium, and 17 years of MeCbl, etc. I'm mo re than 45,000 hours into research on all this.

With the various pathways shifting around demonstrates something else illustrated by TCR-Li. Having to change to the ONLY carnitine, one at a time, or only copper, or Metafolin is great until it doesn't work at all and suddenly Quatrefolic is great for a while. I am sure there are other such pathway changes. Carmin Wheatly (The Gorilla in the room, complete solution to inflammation ... and HyCbl is a secondary partially acting cbl that leaves lots of loose ends. Be well,

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Sooooooo glad to see you're back, @Freddd ..... a lot of members have bean asking after you, and were worried !!!!

 

[Athene*]

'WOW' indeed! @Freddd
Congratulations, this is such excellent news, and well earned!
I'll have to study all these details again later. Ivaluable. Thanks for sharing.

Can I ask you a few questions while you're here -

How much methylfolate do you need now?

How much copper?
I had to go to 15mg daily to resolve new increase in MCV and some loss of balance a few months ago, as well as skin infections including shingles. All ok now, but I needed iron every few days as well, otherwise I got weak, achy and cold. All that disappeared by adding iron.

Do you still need iron?
I just use 75mg twice weekly like you were doing and it's enough.

I haven't felt so well in years but scared to lower any supplements right now.

How much Adocbl do you need now?
Is it normal that when I take my fortnightly CNS 50mg dose of Adocbl, I still get methyltrap symptoms for the day or two afterwards (slight fingertip peeling- nothing like before, quite bad fatigue, muscle aches, slight headache, very irritable (not as severe as before). I take a 10mg dose of Adocbl for the other weeks in between and I don't notice it much, except for some manageable fatigue next day.

Does this mean I need to stay where I am with the high-dose mecbl injections & supplements for a while yet, while continuing with the lithium 20mg daily?

Do you notice any adocbl methyltrap now you're recycling mecbl so amazingly well? It's really something how little you need now!

 

[Freddd]

'WOW' indeed! @Freddd
Congratulations, this is such excellent news, and well earned!
I'll have to study all these details again later. Ivaluable. Thanks for sharing.

Can I ask you a few questions while you're here -

How much methylfolate do you need now?

How much copper?
I had to go to 15mg daily to resolve new increase in MCV and some loss of balance a few months ago, as well as skin infections including shingles. All ok now, but I needed iron every few days as well, otherwise I got weak, achy and cold. All that disappeared by adding iron.

Do you still need iron?
I just use 75mg twice weekly like you were doing and it's enough.

I haven't felt so well in years but scared to lower any supplements right now.

How much Adocbl do you need now?
Is it normal that when I take my fortnightly CNS 50mg dose of Adocbl, I still get methyltrap symptoms for the day or two afterwards (slight fingertip peeling- nothing like before, quite bad fatigue, muscle aches, slight headache, very irritable (not as severe as before). I take a 10mg dose of Adocbl for the other weeks in between and I don't notice it much, except for some manageable fatigue next day.

Does this mean I need to stay where I am with the high-dose mecbl injections & supplements for a while yet, while continuing with the lithium 20mg daily?

Do you notice any adocbl methyltrap now you're recycling mecbl so amazingly well? It's really something how little you need now!

Hi Athene,

The methylfolate is variable. Of the Metafolin I use 45 mg daily, 3 x 15 mg. When it stops working I can take 3-4 days of 2 x 10 mg of Quatrefolic and then go back to Metafolin. I am experimenting still. The amounts and doses per day of Quatrefolic while currently are 2 x 10 mg for me may turn out that 4 x 1 mg or something. It is not optimized yet.

I needed to use the iron when the lithium caused copper to be absorbed and made more effective. Then the iron was needed to work with the copper to correct the balance; I also had an high MCV when needing the iron while my liver was healing. I use 3 mg of copper from 22mg of Copper Sebecate (Source Natural). I only take iron about 2 days a month currently.

The TCR-Li contains cob[ii], the catalytic form of cbl and takes the place of both MeCbl and AdoCbl. COB[ii] fullfills both uses. When the AdoCbl or MeCbl is absorbed by the TCR-Li in the mouth ()sublingual) and responses are sensed in 10 minutes the TCR-Li maintains the catalytic form. When AdoCbl is used without the lithium then both AdoCbl and MeCbl each substitutes for COB[ii]. If AdoCbl is where MeCbl out to be one gets the methyltrap as with CyCbl or HyCbl. I found that titrating the time between doses increases the storage of B12. One "trains" the system to store more b12 by requiring more TCR-lI being grown.\

I don't get any methyltrap any more, not from AdoCbl any way. I am not about to experiment with HyCbl and CyCbl at 72. I don't have time for accidental damage.

I take 10mg once a week of AdoCbl sublingual and that will take hours to start being in urine, just like other cbl forms now. Be well.

 

[Athene*]

Thanks, @Freddd
This is really useful to know. I have the exact same situation with quatrefolic, though I need it for about 6 days.

I look forward to hopefuly being where you are before too long.

Please do continue to update here. I'm sure I'm not the only one following your experience and vast learning on this.

Can you just say how much boron you need now?

I'm still at 30mg daily (Borotab 15mg twice daily) and began it at smaller doses before lithium, then needed to increase it a lot.

Are you still needing Sam-e and TMG?

Have you managed to lower the high does of molybdenum, manganese, selenium, zinc, vanadyl sulfate, gtf chromium?

 

[splusholia]

Thanks, @Freddd
This is really useful to know. I have the exact same situation with quatrefolic, though I need it for about 6 days.

I look forward to hopefuly being where you are before too long.

Please do continue to update here. I'm sure I'm not the only one following your experience and vast learning on this.

Can you just say how much boron you need now?

I'm still at 30mg daily (Borotab 15mg twice daily) and began it at smaller doses before lithium, then needed to increase it a lot.

Are you still needing Sam-e and TMG?

Have you managed to lower the high does of molybdenum, manganese, selenium, zinc, vanadyl sulfate, gtf chromium?

I second this - @Freddd, please do stick around! I’ve been reading your stuff for years, and still learning.

Can I ask both of you who’ve posted about boron... what is the particular significance of this nutrient and why do you need a high dose? Thanks.

 

[Athene*]

I second this - @Freddd, please do stick around! I’ve been reading your stuff for years, and still learning.

Can I ask both of you who’ve posted about boron... what is the particular significance of this nutrient and why do you need a high dose? Thanks.

For me it was because I couldn't get enough magnesium no matter how much I took and I was taking tons of every different form of it including multiple applications of magnesium chloride spray. This magnesium insufficiency was preventing me from tolerating vitamin d.

I looked at the refeeding list of nutrients and figured the issue could be insufficient boron. It can help regulate magnesium. After a few days of high-dose boron I had no more joint pains and had a big increase in energy and sleep so I knew it had been causing a block and once it was there everything else started working again. I was able to reduce magnesium quite a bit though I still take a good amount.

It also increased my estrogen so you might want to monitor that. For example if you have uterine fibroids or other serious implications from estrogen intake - breast cancer etc. I'm fine and welcomed it because I needed a higher level.

I seem to remember @Freddd saying that boron sufficiency is necessary for optimal lithium (*edit, I meant to say copper) absorption but he could tell you more about that.

Hope that helps.

 

[Athene*]

@Freddd

Going by what you said earlier in this thread, I see now I'm not replete with lithium yet:

"The TCR-Li contains cob[ii], the catalytic form of cbl and takes the place of both MeCbl and AdoCbl. COB[ii] fullfills both uses. When the AdoCbl or MeCbl is absorbed by the TCR-Li in the mouth ()sublingual) and responses are sensed in 10 minutes the TCR-Li maintains the catalytic form. When AdoCbl is used without the lithium then both AdoCbl and MeCbl each substitutes for COB[ii]. If AdoCbl is where MeCbl out(ought) to be one gets the methyltrap."

And I just read your post on Quora about AdoCbl and methyltrap.

"I take a single 10mg sublingual once a week about 2 hours after I inject my 10mg MeCbl, and once a month 50 mg sublingually (held for 5+ hours) to get it in all needed CNS locations."
https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186

I think I've got the titration schedule wrong.
After I hold the sublingual AdoCbl 50mg for 5 hours, like you say, I then wait 6 hours until next methylcobalamin injection i.e. 6 hours after the last of the 5 AdoCbl 10mg is absorbed.

Should it be 6 hours from the first AdoCbl instead?

 

[Athene*]

Are you gone, @Freddd ?

Just realised the tap water here is heavily fluoridated, higher than EU recommended levels.

Will I need more than the 20mg daily of lithium orotate I'm currently taking, do you think?

 

[Athene*]

[QUOTE="yukito, post: 2249642, member Hello
As you may have noticed the recommended enzymatic therapy B12 infusion, used in freddd's protocol is now sold under the label Nature's way B12 infusion (customer service says nature's way bought enzymatic )

It has mantained his flavor and shape;but I wonder if it is still exactly the same as the old one?

I usually see small differences from batch to batch and even from pill to pill of the same batch,so it is going to take me some time to figure it out by myself.

If some hypersensitive users could share their impressions about the quality of this B12 Nature'way or have in mind other as effective B12 alternatives ,it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Hi @yukito
You may not still be around, but if you are, did you ever decide on the quality since Nature's Way took over?

I haven't bought it since it was Enzymatic Therapy.

I'm not sure whether I should now I've read your post. Thanks for the heads up!

I used it as an extra with injections because Fred recommends using multiple forms but it's pretty hard to find good stuff.

 

[Freddd]

[QUOTE="yukito, post: 2249642, member Hello
As you may have noticed the recommended enzymatic therapy B12 infusion, used in freddd's protocol is now sold under the label Nature's way B12 infusion (customer service says nature's way bought enzymatic )

It has mantained his flavor and shape;but I wonder if it is still exactly the same as the old one?

I usually see small differences from batch to batch and even from pill to pill of the same batch,so it is going to take me some time to figure it out by myself.

If some hypersensitive users could share their impressions about the quality of this B12 Nature'way or have in mind other as effective B12 alternatives ,it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

Hi @yukito
You may not still be around, but if you are, did you ever decide on the quality since Nature's Way took over?

I haven't bought it since it was Enzymatic Therapy.

I'm not sure whether I should now I've read your post. Thanks for the heads up!

I used it as an extra with injections because Fred recommends using multiple forms but it's pretty hard to find good stuff.[/QUOTE]

Hi Athene,

In a lot of ways the Lithium has changed things a lot. I am no longer hypersensitive on B12. Before lithium needed 3 injections a day or I would feel the onset of each 1 or 2. Not any more. I found several "onset" experiences. In 6 months it was one light onset accompanied with 2 hours of driving onset of hypokalemia going up 2500 feet vertical height. At 3 years, the one hour in urine at 1 hour after injection changed to 8 -18 hours with a once a week injection before the urine has visible B12 in the urine, then another 12 hours to trickle it out. The hours of non excretion varies to how many days between doses. The kidneys gain the ability to recycle the cob[ii] through the TCR-Li over and over again apparently dropping off in the urine whatever the cob[ii] picks up on its trips around the cycle some kind of purification via the catalytic action of TCR-Li.

I don't know whether the ex ENZY or any other is very effective or not anymore. With the stored TCR-Li I store at least a couple of weeks of B12, The TCR-Li in the sublingual absorption appears to collect 1-10 mcg per minute from meat and/or tablets. That compares to the very complicated and slow. stomach, IF, Intestine collects about 10 mcg per day . It appears from early 1950's trials that people with higher lithium level also has half the measurable serum amount of B12. It appears that perhaps the stored cob[ii] in TCR-Li isn't measured as serum level of cbl.

The AdoCbl has changed too. For me it appears to be just as easily stored as MeCbl. With enough lithium TCR-Li MeCbl and AdoCbl are both the same, cob[ii], after going through the catalytic TCR-Li.

With the fluoride situation of spoiling the TCR-Li so it is no longer catalytic. It takes more fluoride to clean out the TCR and refresh it. I found a lithium of 5 or 10 mg cleans up existing tcr-lI IN MORNING BEFORE taking any more fluoride. I am approximating my experiences with fluoride before Li or before Li and mostly very approximate. I know it makes a difference but nothing even approximately detailed. I'll probably be gone before you folks figure it all out. I experiment until I find something interesting and then try to repeat it or prevent repeating the results and have it predictable.

I get a few hundred mcg daily in B-Right. Right now I am trialing with the 5000 mcg MeCbl Kirkland B12. It dissolves very fst so doesn't last long for much absorption. But when I take 1 tablet at a time keeping one going for an hour or two, whether it takes 2 tablets or 20 tablets one at a time, it is mostly time related.
once or twice a week, I have the kidney retention and recycling on 8 tablets similar to one injection a week. If I take the B-Right daily I take it in the morning and the small visible amount is seen 4-8 hours later.

What I can tell you the injection of 10 mg makes no difference to mouth absorbed going straight to brain in 5-10 minutes. Then it goes through the kidneys and keeps cycling.

For somebody to have pernicious anemia (IF missing) a person also needs a lithium deficiency. If the lithium is working 90% of the B12 is absorbed anyway as an approximation. .

Learn much. Pay attention. You may go deficient in a different nutrient from oral TCR-Li compared to injection and give different next items needed in a different order.

Be well. Good to hear you, , Athene, doing so well.

 

[Athene*]

For somebody to have pernicious anemia (IF missing) a person also needs a lithium deficiency

Thanks, Fred! Please can you clarify the above quote.

My husband has pernicious anaemia, diagnosed after a severe hpylori infection. I gave him1mg MeCbl injection daily for a year and now he only needs it a few times per week or less, self-injected.

The thing is he began to recover miraculously after just a few months on MeCbl (plus once weekly 10mg AdoCbl) a mineral supplement and a vitamin supplement.

But he never took lithium (we weren't aware of it) and I've just checked - it's not in his mineral supplement.

He was withering away in front of my eyes before this (big weight loss, muscle atrophy, lowered kidney function and lymphocytes, yellow looking in the face, frequent infections) and the GP was only offering one hydroxocobalamin injection every 3 months.

He's completely recovered now and he says to pass on big thanks to you!

He doesn't have any of your (or mine) odd genetics around b12. Just straightforward pernicious anaemia.

His psoriasis hasn't improved much, but it was never severe. He takes 1mg metafolin daily and there's a little copper with zinc in the mineral supplement.

He drinks the same fluoridated tap water as I do. And he puts too much toothpaste (fluoridated) on his brush!

Should he take a small dose of lithium do you think? I worry if anything happens to me (though I'm still in remission) that he won't keep up the injections etc. Maybe with lithium he would be able to inject less frequently.

Isn't it interesting how well he's done without lithium, even with our awful tap water?

Could he be getting lithium from something else? He has a more varied diet than I do - he's not coeliac like me, and doesn't have any trouble with vegetable folic etc.

 

[Athene*]

PS
Fred
Just checked his blood tests. His diagnosis of pernicious anaemia was based on parietal cell antibodies (high level), atrophic gastritis per OGD (gastroscopy), and low serum b12.
Can't find IF result, but I guess there's no intrinsic factor left with his level of atrophic gastritis which was pretty bad - tiny focal point of intestinal metaplasia too, which he will be always monitored for.

 

[Freddd]

PS
Fred
Just checked his blood tests. His diagnosis of pernicious anaemia was based on parietal cell antibodies (high level), atrophic gastritis per OGD (gastroscopy), and low serum b12.
Can't find IF result, but I guess there's no intrinsic factor left with his level of atrophic gastritis which was pretty bad - tiny focal point of intestinal metaplasia too, which he will be always monitored for.

Hi Athene,
I have been titrating lithium for the last 5 years. I started at 5 mg of lithium orotate daily, went to 30 mg and backed off to 20 mg, when there was no difference perceivable.

There are 3 systems for absorbing B12, The best known one is what many think is the nearly only one is the haptocorrin in saliva to stomach to IF to be absorbed in the small intestine and absorbed there up to 10 mcg per day. The next best known is the 1% passive absorption in intestines. If a person takes 1000 mcg tablet that means a person can absorb another 10 mcg a day.. There are also some examples of absorbing B12 from meat itself in mouth.

Then comes a little known absorption that disappeared in the 1950's as the research got started and fluoride plugged up the TCR-Li ruining the catalyst form of B12 [cob[ii].

With thousands of trials of sublingual B12 I found that the oral sublingual absorption I found that the mouth can deliver 1 to 10 mcg per minute. In one hour with a 5 mg MeCbl is equivalent of a 1 mg of MeCbl injection with from 750 - 1500 mcg absorbed by TCR-Li in the mouth in one hour. A high percentage of people find that they have a noticeable effect from MeCbl in 5 to 10 minutes for absorption by TCR-Li and transported to the Cerebral spinal fluid and brain.

Increase methylfolate until all the deficiency symptoms are gone. Heals the stomach too. Look at the lists of symptoms in the listing.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186

A test you can do. Assuming you are taking an IM injection, 1 mg will show lots of B12 in urine in one hour. That indicates a lack of TCR-Li in the kidneys. It took me 2-3 years to build up enough TCR-Li in kidneys. Now if I take one hour absorption of MeCbl, where it is one long dissolving tablet or 10 quick dissolve one at a time for the hour, 1-10 mcg (or more) per minute can be absorbed. 1200 mcg is 20 mcg absorbed per minute. Then after absorbing it when there is enough TCR-Li my experience is that no B12 shows up in urine at all from 4-18 hours depending upon how often the b12 is taken. Then the b12 may trickle out over another 4-12 hours, whether injected or sublingual During the 8-18 hours of recycling of the cob[ii] through the kidneys many times per hour. Each piece of "junk" that the cob[ii] catches onto while recirculating dumps the "junk" in the urine and goes out for more without losing any B12 until recycling is done and then excess B12 is excreted.

So instead of 20 minute serum half life after injection and goes to 18 hour retention, the serum halflife may easily be 24 hours which is 72 times longer than without the TCR-Li. That changes equilibriums very much and part of that is the homeostasis effect of the lithium (TCR-LI?)

The description is pragmatic and reasoning is hypothetical. Be well.

 

[Athene*]

Hi Athene,
I have been titrating lithium for the last 5 years. I started at 5 mg of lithium orotate daily, went to 30 mg and backed off to 20 mg, when there was no difference perceivable.

There are 3 systems for absorbing B12, The best known one is what many think is the nearly only one is the haptocorrin in saliva to stomach to IF to be absorbed in the small intestine and absorbed there up to 10 mcg per day. The next best known is the 1% passive absorption in intestines. If a person takes 1000 mcg tablet that means a person can absorb another 10 mcg a day.. There are also some examples of absorbing B12 from meat itself in mouth.

Then comes a little known absorption that disappeared in the 1950's as the research got started and fluoride plugged up the TCR-Li ruining the catalyst form of B12 [cob[ii].

With thousands of trials of sublingual B12 I found that the oral sublingual absorption I found that the mouth can deliver 1 to 10 mcg per minute. In one hour with a 5 mg MeCbl is equivalent of a 1 mg of MeCbl injection with from 750 - 1500 mcg absorbed by TCR-Li in the mouth in one hour. A high percentage of people find that they have a noticeable effect from MeCbl in 5 to 10 minutes for absorption by TCR-Li and transported to the Cerebral spinal fluid and brain.

Increase methylfolate until all the deficiency symptoms are gone. Heals the stomach too. Look at the lists of symptoms in the listing.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186

A test you can do. Assuming you are taking an IM injection, 1 mg will show lots of B12 in urine in one hour. That indicates a lack of TCR-Li in the kidneys. It took me 2-3 years to build up enough TCR-Li in kidneys. Now if I take one hour absorption of MeCbl, where it is one long dissolving tablet or 10 quick dissolve one at a time for the hour, 1-10 mcg (or more) per minute can be absorbed. 1200 mcg is 20 mcg absorbed per minute. Then after absorbing it when there is enough TCR-Li my experience is that no B12 shows up in urine at all from 4-18 hours depending upon how often the b12 is taken. Then the b12 may trickle out over another 4-12 hours, whether injected or sublingual During the 8-18 hours of recycling of the cob[ii] through the kidneys many times per hour. Each piece of "junk" that the cob[ii] catches onto while recirculating dumps the "junk" in the urine and goes out for more without losing any B12 until recycling is done and then excess B12 is excreted.

So instead of 20 minute serum half life after injection and goes to 18 hour retention, the serum halflife may easily be 24 hours which is 72 times longer than without the TCR-Li. That changes equilibriums very much and part of that is the homeostasis effect of the lithium (TCR-LI?)

The description is pragmatic and reasoning is hypothetical. Be well.

Cheers, Fred.
For myself I notice the pink wee far less now, except for day after AdoCbl (methyltrap) then I always see it, but less than before the Lithium titration.

Yes, I gave my husband methylfolate 1mg daily and his IBS which he had for decades on-and-off has completely disappeared as well other minor skin irritations, and he never needed another polyp removed (since the first OGD two yrs ago when they removed a large one). He still takes 1mg.

I would never have known about any of this if it wasn't for you. I had been following UK sites before I found your protocol and did myself a lot of damage using hydroxocobalamin and folic acid for several months and b complex with cyanocobalamin & folic acid for decades, desperately trying to feel better.

At least he was able to benefit early in his progression from what I learned from you.

This urine test will be a useful guide for him.

He uses subcutaneous MeCbl injection 1mg, not IM- will that make a difference to the colour test?

 

[Vance]

One can become copper toxic pretty fast. Most supplements come in 2mg.

Copper supplements, in general, aren't absorbed properly by the body. Some of it bypasses the liver, turning into "free" copper in the blood (i.e., unbound by ceruloplasmin). Copper in your water supply does the same thing.

It's probably not enough to cause Wilson's disease, but it's enough to become a source of oxidative stress, which none of us needs. And, according to this paper, it predisposes someone toward neurological disorders like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, over the long term.

Through some fluke, I discovered this effect in my own blood results, then found this paper as an explanation. I say 'fluke', because most labs don't calculate free copper in their results. My copper/ceruloplasmin were both normal, on their own. But you can use the equation/calculator at the Wilson's Disease Assoc., entering your serum copper/ceruloplasmin numbers. My free copper was very high, like 55 in a range of 5-15, from taking something like a 2mg/day copper supplement

Having high free copper is probably better in the short term than copper deficiency, so I'm not necessarily countering your guidance. But the way to address free copper is food-bound copper -- like liver (perhaps a desiccated liver supplement).

 

[Freddd]

Freddd said:
"For somebody to have pernicious anemia (IF missing) a person also needs a lithium deficiency"
@Athene - "Thanks, Fred! Please can you clarify the above quote."
Pernicious anemia was simply untreatable anemia,. It is a disease of inadequate B12. Over time "Pernicious anemia" became equal to "insufficient" "the Intrinsic Factor." rather than AN intrinsic factor. As far as macrocytic anemia goes, it doesn't matter whether injected B12, sublingual TCR-li, or a sublingual, passively absorbed B12 intestine they all supply B12 and either there is enough to not have high MCV or insufficient B12 having high. MCV.

Its like calling all folates are the same as "folic acid". That could be fatal for some people.

I was simply trying to draw attention that the specific cause of anemia is different than the very specific one cause.