Abilify- Stanford Clinic Patients

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Started pramipexole today... will keep you updated

 

[hmnr asg]

I am reducing my abilify so i can do a reset. I went down from 2mg to 1mg. Its been pretty rough! I think im going to lose two weeks of my life. This pill is too powerful to be monkeyed around with, but I have no choice. Hoping resetting and taking a break will restart the benefits again (going on nothing but pure hope).

 

[jaybee00]

Good luck @Martin aka paused||M.E.

How did you decide on pramipexole versus ropinirole?

 

[Treeman]

Weeks, about four.

Did abilify continue to work after your sleep return to a good state? Thanks.

 

[Jessie 107]

Did abilify continue to work after your sleep return to a good state? Thanks.

Yes

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Good luck @Martin aka paused||M.E.

How did you decide on pramipexole versus ropinirole?

Based on one success story ... that’s all

 

[stefanosstef]

Started pramipexole today... will keep you updated

Maybe you would like to take a look at my journal, as I've experience with this drug.

Considering that you are a bit impatient (totally justified), in your position I would aim for an initial dosage of 2mg, Fawcett's protocol, whole dosage at night.I get there in about 4 weeks, by increasing 0.5mg every 3 days.After that, the brain needs at least 5 days to adapt and start having the benefits.Until then and especially as you increase the dosage you will have more fatigue, it needs patience.

I've found out that adding LDN greatly increases the antiinflammation effects, I am usually taking 2.5-3.5mg once at night, although it may be better if I take that dosage twice per day, because theoretically this is better for the antiinflammation effect, rather than pain management or immune regulation.I have tried this only a couple of times so I can't say if it's better that way.It certainly didn't feel worse though.

 

[choochoo]

@leokitten Yeah I'm doing the Fawcett's protocol. My working dosage is 2.1mg (3x0.7mg) and I believe they way this and Aripiprazole work is by lowering neuroinflammation, a lot.
Unfortunately my recent blood test showed minor increase in liver enzymes and it must be from the pramipexole since it's in its side effects and I'm not taking anything else, apart from LDN.

I'm waiting for my neurologist's opinion but I don't see how I can continue taking it.
I do consider Aripiprazole, it was next in my list after pramipexole anyway, since I've read Hip's thread because his and a couple of others' experiences convinced me.

I am not worried about the side effects of the typical dosage (TD etc). What worries me is its impact on male hormones.

@leokitten you mentioned some videos a few posts back, can you post a link?I can't find them.

Any news on the liver enzymes? Have you considered cutting the dose?

 

[stefanosstef]

Any news on the liver enzymes? Have you considered cutting the dose?

I have, but I consulted 2 other doctors who were quite sure it's from a fatty liver, one is a neurologist who has experience with pramipexole.The endocrinologist said it with doubts, that it may be the pramipexole.
It coincided with some extra weight I've got lately.It's not visible except for my belly, so I tended to ignore it even though I've ripped a couple of trousers and a couple of trouser buttons

I started a more strict diet, I will try to do some aerobic and I also started milk thistle.I will do another blood test in a couple of months, hopefully a few kg lighter.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I have, but I consulted 2 other doctors who were quite sure it's from a fatty liver, one is a neurologist who has experience with pramipexole.The endocrinologist said it with doubts, that it may be the pramipexole.
It coincided with some extra weight I've got lately.It's not visible except for my belly, so I tended to ignore it even though I've ripped a couple of trousers and a couple of trouser buttons

I started a more strict diet, I will try to do some aerobic and I also started milk thistle.I will do another blood test in a couple of months, hopefully a few kg lighter.

When did you notice an improvement and on what dose?

 

[stefanosstef]

1 month in.I am improved at 1.5 to 2.5mg.According to the Fawcett studie the working dosage is at 1.5mg (+-1mg).2mg is a very good dosage to stop and gauge the effects (after 5-7 days).Just remember that as you increase you get a bit more fatigue and sleepiness and when you decreased from an adapted dosage you get more stimulated until you get used to the lower dosage.

I would increase 0.5mg every 3 days, stop at 2mg for a week.If the effects is not enough I would try then at 2.5mg to see if it gets better.If the 2mg is enough I would try at 1.5mg to see if it's the same or less.That's the logic.I highly recommend LDN along with it,There is also another member here that found out that LDN greatly improves aripiprazole benefits so I think we might be on to something.

 

[jaybee00]

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2015.15060788

This is the Fawcett study?

 

[stefanosstef]

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2015.15060788

This is the Fawcett study?

Yes

 

[leokitten]

@stefanosstef have you contemplated trying a selective MAO-B inhibitor instead? Like rasagiline or selegiline. They have far fewer side effects, don’t require titration, and they don’t result in horrible DAWS. They’re both generic too.

 

[stefanosstef]

@stefanosstef have you contemplated trying a selective MAO-B inhibitor instead? Like rasagiline or selegiline. They have far fewer side effects, don’t require titration, and they don’t result in horrible DAWS. They’re both generic too.

Sure, but it wasnt comparable, as it wasn't levodopa or wellbutrin.As if said many times, I don't believe it's the dopaminergic effect itself that creates the benefit, it's anti-inflammatory in some way.

 

[leokitten]

Sure, but it wasnt comparable, as it wasn't levodopa or wellbutrin.As if said many times, I don't believe it's the dopaminergic effect itself that creates the benefit, it's anti-inflammatory in some way.

MAOIs are also likely to have anti-inflammatory effects, I believe this is just an aspect that is understudied. One obvious anti-inflammatory effect is that they dramatically lower the production of ROS by inhibiting the oxidative breakdown of monoamines by MAO enzymes.

ROS like H2O2 are always created during MAO function, though mostly neutralized by antioxidants under normal conditions. But in ME it could very well be that there is oxidative stress of some kind in the dopamine system. ROS triggers an inflammatory cascade if too much is being generated and not neutralized.

 

[stefanosstef]

MAOIs are also likely to have an anti-inflammatory effects, I believe this is just an aspect that is understudied. One obvious anti-inflammatory effect is that they dramatically lower the production of ROS by inhibiting the oxidative breakdown of monoamines by MAO enzymes.

ROS like H2O2 are always created during MAO function, though mostly neutralized by antioxidants under normal conditions. But in ME it could very well be that there is oxidative stress of some kind in the dopamine system. ROS triggers an inflammatory cascade if too much is being generated and not neutralized.

Hmmm now that you said it, i kinda remember that they are antioxidant due to less MAO.It's been 2 years that I've tried selegiline.I may try it again if I quit pramipexole.Nothing to lose and I can judge the effects at 2 weeks if I remember correctly.

 

[leokitten]

Hmmm now that you said it, i kinda remember that they are antioxidant due to less MAO.It's been 2 years that I've tried selegiline.I may try it again if I quit pramipexole.Nothing to lose and I can judge the effects at 2 weeks if I remember correctly.

Selegiline has some anti-inflammatory and at least one proinflammatory effect, so this compound might be equivocal in that regard. But rasagiline is currently known to only have anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective effects, though the generic is still more expensive than selegiline.

 

[stefanosstef]

Selegiline has some anti-inflammatory and at least one proinflammatory effect, so this compound might be equivocal in that regard. But rasagiline is currently known to only have anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective effects, though the generic is still more expensive than selegiline.

You are right, rasagiline seems superior.Only a few anecdotal reports but it looks somewhat promising and also seems to be inhibiting MAO B even with microdosing, ie 0,25mg every 3 days.

 

[leokitten]

You are right, rasagiline seems superior.Only a few anecdotal reports but it looks somewhat promising and also seems to be inhibiting MAO B even with microdosing, ie 0,25mg every 3 days.

Thank @Hip for that, we had private convo about MAOIs and he mentioned selegiline increasing IL-1B or one other proinflammatory cytokine. With drugs there appears sometimes to be no rhyme or reason each one can cause different cytokines to go up and down.