Learner1
Senior Member
- Messages
- 6,305
- Location
- Pacific Northwest
As the article states, nicotinamide mononucleotide, a precursor of NAD+.What is NMN?
Welcome to Phoenix Rising!
Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.
As the article states, nicotinamide mononucleotide, a precursor of NAD+.What is NMN?
I am buying raw powder straight from wholesale manufacturers in China, a friend did a HPLC check on the NADH and is it was pure without additives and impurities, I figured their NAD+ and NMN and NR is probably safe as well.Thanks for the update. Just curious, where does one get injectable NMN?
And were you taking the NMN and NADH through your digestive system or doing it sublingually? It makes a big difference. Through the digestive system may not work because things get broken down before they get to know where they need to go. Sublingually should get straight into your bloodstream
If that doesn't work, you might look into genetic variations. For me I've got two genetic variations that prevent me from using the NR. I don't think they're too uncommon, so I expect others would have the same issue.
To be honest, I started the NAD+ in regards to the "proposed" 7 days I.V that many clinics advertise but which are probably a total waste. So I slowed down to 300mg per day and decided to finally pause it and see if I will notice any ongoing benefits.The only other comment I can make is that is an awful lot of NAD.
The only other comment I can make is that is an awful lot of NAD. I'm wondering why you're not recycling between NAD and NADH. Seems like there's some sort of leak somewhere in the process, which is why you're so needy. Or at least that's my guess. Or...
What is the explanation? I guess another place to look could be the quality of your mitochondrial membranes, and if peroxynitrites had damaged them, and you're short of phospholipids to repair them that would make them leaky and make ATP production less efficient.
I quoted this from another thread as it is pertinent to this discussion. Thank you for finding the article, it makes very good points. @Hopeful2021 @mitoMANIt's interesting to notice that NAD+ which is also a mitochondrial activator and an akt/mTor inhibitor (via sirt1 activation) can have both pro or anti cancer activity, depending of the cell or situation.
NAD+ given at high dose can also be hepatotoxic.
Er, what are your phospholipids like? Phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylserine, phosphatidylinositol, and phosphatidyl ethanolamine? I'll need to be sufficient to make/repair mitochondrial membranes.
And peroxynitrite status? Peroxynitrites will shred mitochondrial membranes and impair complex 1, making for very inefficient ATP production. Perhaps looking into this area, and having sufficient folate, B12, C, and BH4 would reverse the peroxynitrite production and replenishing with phospholipids as Garth Nicholson and Patricia Kane have suggested might improve the quality of your mitochondrial membranes and make your ATP production more efficient, resulting in less need for NADH? I've done a lot of work in this area, and my energy has improved dramatically. Perhaps that's why I need a lot less NAD than you do?
Studies are missing on combining SS-31 with other antioxidants. However according to studies, a higher dose of SS-31 will make up for any other oral supplementation regarding membrane potential, ROS Scavanaging, intracellular Glutathione, antioxidative capacity etc.SS-31 is a mitochondrial antioxidant. Wonder if it would attack the superoxide production which is combining with nitric oxide, which forms the peroxynitrites instantaneously when superoxide radicals are produced? I know SS-31 was the only thing that passed the nanoneedle test, but what exactly is it doing? What is the mechanism? And is there some other combination of antioxidants that would work? The last three articles attached below discuss oxidative and nitrosative stress and mitochondria and use of various substances to tackle it.
I quoted this from another thread as it is pertinent to this discussion. Thank you for finding the article, it makes very good points. @Hopeful2021 @mitoMAN
This is why I have an advocating for only taking as much as one needs, and not taking extraordinarily high doses which could backfire.
I don't know C60. What is it, please?My German labs dont offer subgroups of phospholipids.
The tests I did were limited to
- Malondialdehyd-modified LDL/MDA-LDL
- Nitrotyrosin
- Total Antioxidative Capacity(TAC)
- Glutathionperoxidase (GPx)
- Glutathion intracellular (GSH)
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin E
- Selen
- Zinc
- All other possible minerals and vitamins ofc. No defecit was found
- Homocystein
- CoQ10
- intracellular ATP
I am taking about all possible supplements, including high dose B12 injections of Methyl and Adenosylcobalamin, 5-MTHF etc etc. These didnt bring any subjective improvement.
I have to say that I blieve that the NAD+ didnt bring any short term improvement as well.
It was purely NADH that brings immediate improvement - within 10-30 minutes for several hours per day!
The idea behind SS-31 is to improve my mitochondrial membrane potential and antioxidative capacity by ALOT. No other substance has been shown to be as effective as SS-31. So thats worth a shot.
Also I havent tried C-60 yet. Would you recommend this?
I currently try 400mg Ubiquinol CoQ10 instead of 2g Ubiquinon CoQ10 and see if that helps.
As my CoQ10 level were rather low even tho I supplemented Ubiquinon for 5 months.
Studies are missing on combining SS-31 with other antioxidants. However according to studies, a higher dose of SS-31 will make up for any other oral supplementation regarding membrane potential, ROS Scavanaging, intracellular Glutathione, antioxidative capacity etc.
It has shown to completly restore dysfunctional mitochondria back to Healthy Controls.
Which is extremly promising. And it even were human trials. Not just some mice trials.
I will have a look in my WGS to search for possible NR or NMN metabolism dysfunctions. I havent tested NR yet. But will hopefully find out about injectible NMN soon. I am also planning to try injectible NR if NMN doesnt work.
It would be helpful to know what your phospholipids are doing, but you might look into a product like NT Factor, formulated by Garth Nicholson, which has all of the phospholipids needed for the membranes and the correct ratios to one another. Or you could do IVs of phosphatidylcholine. I believe Lipostabil is a variety that's been available in Switzerland.
The blood lactate-to-pyruvate (L)1 molar ratio reflects the equilibrium between product and substrate of the reaction catalyzed by lactate dehydrogenase. The L
ratio is correlated with the cytoplasmic NADH:NAD+ ratio and is used as a surrogate measure of the cytosolic oxido-reduction state (1). When cellular respiration is impaired, as in hypoxia, pyruvate oxidation is reduced, resulting in lactic acidosis. In such situations, reduced forms of oxido-reduction coenzymes (NADH, FADH2) predominate and L
ratio is increased.
Source: https://academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/53/5/916/5627488