Hi,
I know this is an old thread, and not sure if anyone is going to reply, but thought I'd add my experience so far with Methlyation and possible potassium deficiency.
I have MTRR++ defect. I require Methyl-B12. I was taking about 1000-2000mcg of dry capsule form, which seemed to help a little. I thne moved to high dosage sublingual which has 4000mcg Methylcobalamin and 1000mcg of Adenosylcobalamin. Wow what a difference that made!!! I started feeling quite a bit better. I do worry a little as I do have some form of Adrenal Fatigue, and I've read that this could cause a crash. Not sure why it would especially if my body has a high need for it.
Anyway, I also added 5mg of iron as you make more red blood cells, I believe your cells require more iron. So, adding a low dose of iron also really seemed to help.
I'm also taking TMG to help with methylation. That seems to be helping as well. But as soon as starting the TMG, I noticed some achy feelings in my right foot and right hand. It came and went. And for the longest time I had fisiculating muscles in my calves. Some times cramping, etc... But, I drink TONS of water, so I know I'm not dehydrated. More recently, I started having more muscle aches, cramping, tingling/numbness, heart palps, fast heart beat off/on, insomnia, and yesterday I had a couple of moments where I feel really light headed like I was going to black out for second, but that passed. I did check blood sugars and they were fine.
I started researching low potassium, and ran into this site. And from what I've read here and elsewhere, it would seem that I might have a higher requirement for potassium. I take high doses of B12, magnesium, Vitamin C, Zinc, etc... All of what I've read could cause a requirement for more potassium. So, I think I've hit a possible dangerous level of low potassium yesterday. I ended up taking about 1200mg of Potassium Chloride. After about 1.5 hours I started feeling a lot better. I took a litle more in the evening and this morning I feel better. So, I will probably keep supplementing it for a while.
A couple of questions I have about potassium...Does your body store potassium? Can you build up levels then not need as much? How much should you take per day and for low long to restore your levels?
Cheers!
Hi Soccer_dude,
I recently added a "refeeding syndrome" post in the methylation menu. Going back to to the end of WW II when starving people were fed many of them got sick on the third day or so and quite a few dropped dead. Then this was found to happen after fasts as short as 5 days, anorexia, vitamin deficiency, etc. It doesn't matter why cell making got stopped. When the missing items that caused it to stop are added, the body starts making cells again, whether it was the suspected blood cells in the 1950s when injectable b12 was first tested or the reversal of atrophying muscles or loss of weight from intentional or unintentional starvation of any kind. It only takes 1 missing vitamin to stop a lot of methylation which stops a lot of cell formation.
The deadlock quartet, MeCbl, AdoCbl, l-methylfolate and L-carnitine fumarate (about 90% of those that have carnitine make a huge difference, ALCAR about 10%, the reason for the difference is unknown but the need for the right carnitine has been known about for decades and has been argued back and forth whether it should be a vitamin because not everybody can synthesize one or more of the varieties they need). The reason for all four of these items is because methylation is needed in many ATP reaction sequences and ATP is needed in many methylation sequences. Think growing cells for instance; as methylation and ATP are both needed. To convert folic acid to human usable l-methylfolate takes methyl groups, an enzyme and ATP. To convert CyCbl/HyCbl to the two human active forms of B12, MeCbl and AdoCbl, takes methyl groups, enzymes and ATP. Folic acid, HyCbl and CyCbl are not self starters. They are dependent on the person already having some of the working forms. Missing any one of those four items of the deadlock quartet deadlocks over 600 reaction chains and the symptoms overlap considerably of course.
The following sets of symptoms cover the generally fast to occur refeeding syndrome symptoms. Both potassium and methylfolate deficiency symptoms can start increasing dramatically on the third day after starting especially the deadlock quartet components, or even each one of them and many other vitamins and minerals in an order of current insufficiency.
So looking at potassium, one might notice that just about everything a person can eat has potassium in it because it is a major component of cells. We need to absorb about 3-5 grams (3000-5000 mg) a day to keep even. Putting on tissue, from blood to muscle to healing various things, all draw potassium from serum, the only place it is available. The potassium from food takes about 14 hours to reach peak serum level. It is then rapidly transferred into the tissue via insulin. Ones normal serum level reflects the overall potassium in the body in a general way but is used for all current needs. If current needs require more potassium than can transfer back into serum from tissue fast enough, one can get a rapidly falling serum potassium level that can cause a variety of symptoms including death if the symptoms are ignored, perhaps by calling them "detox" or something else. When many people have a basic methylation/ATP startup as you described, usually both low potassium and low folatre symptoms will develope in several days and worseon until corrected.
Version 1.4 09/25/2015
Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset. Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (Cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).
There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.
IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,
Hard knots of muscle, Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed, Sudden muscle spasms when stretching , Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling, Sudden muscle spasms when reaching , Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side, Tightening of muscles, spasms and excruciating pain in neck muscles, waking up screaming in pain from muscle spasms in legs. Muscle weakness
Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure
Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.
Group 2a - Both
IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation
Group 2b – Either or both
Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue
Group 3 - Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency, partial methylation block to methyltrap on 1 or more internal triage levels
These symptoms appear in 2 forms generally, the milder symptoms that start with partial methylation block and the more severe symptoms that come on as partial methylation block gets worse or very quickly with methyltrap onset.
Edema - An additional thing I would like to mention. I would never have found it without 5 years of watching the onset of paradoxical folate insufficiency and trying to catch it earlier and earlier and to figure out what was causing it and to reverse it. For me the onset order goes back to the day of onset now with edema and a sudden increase of weight. I noticed that within 2 hours of taking sufficient Metafolin I would have an increase in urine output.
Old symptoms returning
Edema
Angular Cheilitis, Canker sores,
Skin rashes, increased acne, Increased itchy acne on scalp and face, Skin peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips,
IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation
Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue
Increased hypersensitive responses, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body, Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy muscles, Flu like symptoms
IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy digestive tract,
Coated tongue, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Increase irritability, Heart palpitations,
Longer term, very serious
Loss of reflexes, Fevers, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, bleeding easily
Group 4 - HyCbl onset, degraded MeCbl onset, MeCbl after photolytic breakdown onset.
Itchy bumps generally on scalp or face that develops to acne like lesions in a few days from start.
