Views on B12--Greg (B12 oils) view vs Rich Van's view--Thoughts?

[Gondwanaland]

I hadn't been taking much b6, but it's in the b group oil I've started last week, so hopefully. I would welcome a break from this..

Vit B6 and hormones at Examine and Linus Pauling Institute
You might have to tweak with iodine though.

Interesting. From food or supplement? I take selenocysteine most days and brazil nuts if I can get decent ones

Supplement. I do not tolerate Brazil Nuts at the moment (oxalates+histamine)

 

[Kathevans]

@Athene* I am using the plain MeB12 Oil and like it. I ordered the Methyl/Ado combo, but still haven't been Able to tolerate the Ado alone, so perhaps the B Group Oils ,as you say with a much lower amount of the Ado, would be the way to go. I hadn't thought of this as an alternative way of getting the Ado.

I am post menopausal, so don't have the large estrogen surges of the past, yet, absolutely feel hormonal changes occurring with the B12 as well as the B2. It's amazing to me how powerful these little pills are and how much of a shift they can bring about in systems that have been working sub-optimally.

 

[Johnmac]

Thanks for this @dogged_days It sure is a roller coaster. That's interesting about the niacin in the b group oil. It did strike me as quite high in relation to the other components. I've given up my oral b-complex too and I use b12oil x 2 sprays daily with an extra bit of Ado sublingual with the second spray of b12 (I use the b group oil which contains Ado with the first b12 spray). I must order the Meb12/Ado oil blend.
I find it amazing to come back from crashes too - when you're in one you think it's over and you'll never get back on your feet again. And there are some days I feel like I'm back to my old self.

I'm not having severe crashes anymore (touch wood) but some days I'm quite achy and stiff and fatigued (feels like hypothyroidism) and for some reason I find the Ado hard to take, though I am persevering with it.
I see you're having thyroid issues too. With no thyroid it's crucial, obviously, to get enough t3 and t4. What do you use? Did you find iodine difficult too?

Yes, I'm still needing methylfolate too. 18mg daily now. Can't ditch it until thyroid picks up, otherwise I'd crash. Still needing potassium too, but only half as much (1500mg daily now of potassium gluconate, and food potassium too)

I've noticed that the aches and pains and coldness are very much influenced by the female hormone cycle. I would love to know if any other women here experience this. One friend of mine said I reminded her of when she did fertility treatment - I'm having these massive estrogen and testosterone surges every so often, and hyper ovulating for a few days here and there. It's as if the ovaries are being hyper stimulated (which they probably are after being dormant on and off for years due to thyroid and b12 deficiency).

But it's very hard to manage the hormone overload when it happens. And estrogen when it gets too high blocks thyroid and cortisol. When there's progesterone around, I feel much much better. Of course progesterone creates more cortisol in the body, so that explains why. Like you, I've needed hydrocortisone, but I've come off it recently. There are some days when estrogen is high that makes me feel like I need hydrocortisone again, but I don't resort to it, and I'm fine again in another few days. It's great for you that you've managed to cut your hydrocortisone.

It's so difficult to plan anything in life isn't it? Even the smallest thing. It could be a really good day tomorrow or next week etc, or it could be a day of being cold, achy and tired...Still, at least the good days are there sometimes. I hope your own comebacks keep coming

A few random bits:

I'm surprised by those small doses of Bs too. Higher penetration I guess.

I had aches & pains at around 40, but paleo seemed to have removed them. I'm now 64 & ache-and-pain-less.

The Fred Protocol allowed me to drop hydrocortisone and T3 both.

I always got the adrenal or kidney pains (both sides) when chelating heavy metals, until I neutralised my urine by drinking some water with bicarb mixed in.

Finally, I had cold hands & feet quite recently (probably a result of whatever it is that's wrong with me presently: theories about that change daily). I got out the iodine (Iodoral 37.5mg/day) & that heated me up nicely. I stopped it after a couple of weeks because I was sick of the 'flu' sfx, but the warm hands & feet have stayed with me.

 

[dogged_days]

@Athene* I did not know the b blend contained adeno! Not doing B group, I’ve decided to stick with the oral Bs for now. I have trouble with adeno and I’m hoping the adb only oil (transition from oral adb) will improve things. Sticking with my Bs for now. I am taking 10k/day biotin oral, btw.

I take all the cofactors for thyroid. Since on synthetic t4 for ten years, a full body breakdown occurred (100 mgs full replacement dose), and I lost ability to convert t4 to t3. I’ve been on NDT for 5 years. It has been a marked improvement, but the ratio is not high enough in t3. So a similar problem.

I have very low hormones. Last test I took 5 years ago, everything was low. My naturo gave me progesterone and testosterone and it was like heaven. I had no idea what these things felt like. I wanted to shout it from the rooftops…for every woman who’s ever had trouble…you know. Lots of women need testosterone. Estrogen indeed gave me trouble back then so I don’t take it. I’m 51, so I’m addressing all this very late in the game. Manual management. The hormone replacement has helped but barely makes a dent. I had an endometrial ablation several years ago, when I didn’t know anything. I was menstruating for 2 years straight, so I was anemic and really ill. No iron. I am hoping the other things…like methylation and chelation will resolve these hormonal issues. I noticed my levels drop off since last summer. Hasn’t been good since. I am convinced this is all the metal mouth work.

Like @Kathevans I still have severe neck problems, just overwhelming. That’s why I’m holding off on bringing down the 5-mthf. I still need it. I think it’s keeping the body aches at bay.

I have had this severe neck problem, along with horrible subluxation, mainly of the occipital lobe (basically I fall right out of alignment when I walk out of the chiros office), since my ALA accident, where I took ALA a high dose, infrequently for 2 years (with amalgam fillings) before realizing I was redistributing metal back into my brain. I lost a ton of cognition in these last 3 years, on that boner move and just by removing the metal. I just finished in April and maybe I am dumping. My hair goes coarse every few weeks. The CFS and fibro started 5 years ago when I took t3 alone and drove myself into adrenal insufficiency. Hydrocortisone saved me and the job.

A few weeks into the oils, I’m having the shooting nerve pain in random places all over my body again, indicating a layer of healing. I got this when I started FP, then it went away, as predicted with b12 and 5-mthf. 2 weeks into oils and I’ve got that symptom again, so I believe that’s an excellent sign of deeper healing. My sleep is EXCELLENT now. The b12 is magic for sleep. The insomnia lasted less than a week.

I was at a double dose of iodine for two years, this week I am trying a maintenance dose. We’ll see.

I think I b2 at 100, 50x2 day is good for now. I don’t know. I have a ton of anxiety over chelation, so I want things stable. How many things can one take on at once, I wonder? Without becoming a chemist?

Thank you @Athene*. I am learning so much.

 

[Athene*]

@Athene* I am using the plain MeB12 Oil and like it. I ordered the Methyl/Ado combo, but still haven't been Able to tolerate the Ado alone, so perhaps the B Group Oils ,as you say with a much lower amount of the Ado, would be the way to go. I hadn't thought of this as an alternative way of getting the Ado.

I am post menopausal, so don't have the large estrogen surges of the past, yet, absolutely feel hormonal changes occurring with the B12 as well as the B2. It's amazing to me how powerful these little pills are and how much of a shift they can bring about in systems that have been working sub-optimally.

That's good you're noticing the hormone changes too, Kath. I'm most likely peri-menopausal. But there's a history of late menopause in my family so I do worry about all this estrogen and having it for a long time though thankfully no breast cancer or other familial cancer history. Still, one can't be too careful and I'm looking forward to when all this surging settles down.

My ovaries shut down for several years from untreated hypothyroidism (and probably b12 deficiency at that time too) and I was amazed (as were doctors) when they made a comeback with NDT treatment. I just want them to calm down now.

I do find the b2 amazing in controlling the adrenalin surges. Who'd have thought it could be so powerful - just shows what long-term deficiency of any vitamin can do to the body. Yes, the Ado, being only .5 in the BGroup oil seems to be more tolerable for me, for now. I wouldn't be able for the big dose just yet. I wonder if Ado affects the adrenals and that's why we have to go slowly with it...

 

[Athene*]

A few random bits:

I'm surprised by those small doses of Bs too. Higher penetration I guess.

I had aches & pains at around 40, but paleo seemed to have removed them. I'm now 64 & ache-and-pain-less.

The Fred Protocol allowed me to drop hydrocortisone and T3 both.

I always got the adrenal or kidney pains (both sides) when chelating heavy metals, until I neutralised my urine by drinking some water with bicarb mixed in.

Finally, I had cold hands & feet quite recently (probably a result of whatever it is that's wrong with me presently: theories about that change daily). I got out the iodine (Iodoral 37.5mg/day) & that heated me up nicely. I stopped it after a couple of weeks because I was sick of the 'flu' sfx, but the warm hands & feet have stayed with me.

Interesting @Johnmac Thanks for tip. When you say bicarb do you mean sodium bicarbonate (I have some here that's sold as 'Bread Soda' used for baking). I might just try some on adrenal/kidney achy days. Some of my pain is definitely kidney related now that you say it - it's much worse when I'm retaining fluid when Aldosterone is fluctuating. Can I ask how much bicarb (sodium bicarb?) did you use?

 

[Athene*]

PS @Johnmac Yes, the iodine. It worked wonders for my husband. I wish I could use it more, but can only take a crumb without full on detox crash. I know from my OAT that my Glutathione is still a bit low, so that may explain my poor detox for now?

 

[Athene*]

@Athene* I did not know the b blend contained adeno! Not doing B group, I’ve decided to stick with the oral Bs for now. I have trouble with adeno and I’m hoping the adb only oil (transition from oral adb) will improve things. Sticking with my Bs for now. I am taking 10k/day biotin oral, btw.

I take all the cofactors for thyroid. Since on synthetic t4 for ten years, a full body breakdown occurred (100 mgs full replacement dose), and I lost ability to convert t4 to t3. I’ve been on NDT for 5 years. It has been a marked improvement, but the ratio is not high enough in t3. So a similar problem.

I have very low hormones. Last test I took 5 years ago, everything was low. My naturo gave me progesterone and testosterone and it was like heaven. I had no idea what these things felt like. I wanted to shout it from the rooftops…for every woman who’s ever had trouble…you know. Lots of women need testosterone. Estrogen indeed gave me trouble back then so I don’t take it. I’m 51, so I’m addressing all this very late in the game. Manual management. The hormone replacement has helped but barely makes a dent. I had an endometrial ablation several years ago, when I didn’t know anything. I was menstruating for 2 years straight, so I was anemic and really ill. No iron. I am hoping the other things…like methylation and chelation will resolve these hormonal issues. I noticed my levels drop off since last summer. Hasn’t been good since. I am convinced this is all the metal mouth work.

Like @Kathevans I still have severe neck problems, just overwhelming. That’s why I’m holding off on bringing down the 5-mthf. I still need it. I think it’s keeping the body aches at bay.

I have had this severe neck problem, along with horrible subluxation, mainly of the occipital lobe (basically I fall right out of alignment when I walk out of the chiros office), since my ALA accident, where I took ALA a high dose, infrequently for 2 years (with amalgam fillings) before realizing I was redistributing metal back into my brain. I lost a ton of cognition in these last 3 years, on that boner move and just by removing the metal. I just finished in April and maybe I am dumping. My hair goes coarse every few weeks. The CFS and fibro started 5 years ago when I took t3 alone and drove myself into adrenal insufficiency. Hydrocortisone saved me and the job.

A few weeks into the oils, I’m having the shooting nerve pain in random places all over my body again, indicating a layer of healing. I got this when I started FP, then it went away, as predicted with b12 and 5-mthf. 2 weeks into oils and I’ve got that symptom again, so I believe that’s an excellent sign of deeper healing. My sleep is EXCELLENT now. The b12 is magic for sleep. The insomnia lasted less than a week.

I was at a double dose of iodine for two years, this week I am trying a maintenance dose. We’ll see.

I think I b2 at 100, 50x2 day is good for now. I don’t know. I have a ton of anxiety over chelation, so I want things stable. How many things can one take on at once, I wonder? Without becoming a chemist?

Thank you @Athene*. I am learning so much.

Thanks for the detail. It helps so much to compare. Your story is so like mine @dogged_days I had the endometrial ablation too when my ovaries went haywire as they returned after many years dormant. At the time it was fantastic to be rid of all the erratic bleeding, but really, it makes me so disappointed in the medical system here, when you think that some proper thyroid treatment along with b12 could have resolved it all without the need for surgery with general anaesthetic (which looking back began my b12 insufficiency big time).

Like you, I did the dreaded synthetic t4 for 13 years and it led to 'full body breakdown' for me too. And also like you, I tried NDT, but wasn't getting enough t3 (because I wasn't converting the t4 portion enough most likely). I now take one grain of NDT with two dose of 25mcg t3. So three doses across the day including the NDT grain. I take the doses every 4.5 to 5 hours.

I never did chelation, but I do notice I find iodine very very difficult to tolerate even at small doses so I'm thinking I might have detox problems due to my low glutathione (found on OAT recently that Greg analysed - Organic Acids Test).

I had identical response to you on the Fredd Protocol too and thought it was miraculous, but then it tanked my iron because of the low b2, but I'm still doing a lower version of my original FP, along with the b2. I've been ill for 20+ years, so, like you and others here, it will take more time to get better than for those who have recent onset deficiencies.

I never used testosterone, but I did progesterone for a few months at one stage and it nearly killed me - I think it sent my cortisol haywire. I don't think I needed the progesterone. Maybe in a few years time. I wouldn't rule it out for the future.

I never tried testosterone. Do you find you need less testosterone with your b12? I only ask because it seems to increase my testosterone (too much at times).

The neck issue - That's the first thing that goes for me when I crash. It gets so weak that I can't sit up in bed. My head is too heavy for my neck muscles to support. I haven't had that for a good while now. Fingers crossed.

Yes, I'm on b2 100mg daily now too (25mg x 4 doses).

We're all becoming acquainted with biochemistry now - rather too much! I'm happy to leave that exquisitely complex science in Greg's hands, and just learn about the bits I need

 

[Athene*]

PS @dogged_days That's interesting about the amount of biotin you take -10k daily. Greg did say that it helps the Adocbl to work. I'm hoping there's enough biotin in the bGroup oil, but before that I was taking about 300ug daily orally, nothing as high as you. Hmmn, I may need more. I do eat an egg every day. Must check out other food sources now...thanks!

 

[Kathevans]

Like @Kathevans I still have severe neck problems, just overwhelming. That’s why I’m holding off on bringing down the 5-mthf. I still need it. I think it’s keeping the body aches at bay.

My neck is much better than it was a year ago, though I still have a lot of joint, tendon and muscle pain and soreness. The thing is, as I've played with folate after having taken so much B2 on board, it seems like the folate is driving the tightening muscles. I kept going lower, raising it, back and forth with the folate, the B12, the B2, and it seems to me--in this moment--that it is, indeed, the folate that is causing the tightening. I keep recalling what Greg said to me, that
"If you need more [than 400-800mcg/day], then either your methyl B12 is too low, or you have a block at MTHFR, due to B2 deficiency." I also think that I have a substantial need for Adenosyl B12, but am still not adding it at all because I want to have things settled to some extent prior. I have a very strong feeling that enough B2 will enable me to take the Ado without problems.

I took just 200mcg folate yesterday morning and suffered with the tightening facial/jaw/neck for several hours. I didn't take it again, and the symptom didn't reappear more than very, very mildly, and today I am free of that particular symptom.

Unfortunately, I seem to be getting more sensitive to the B12 Oils. The past 2 days I used about .5 of a squirt and by yesterday I was flying. I've walked every day this week, and last night before bed I was cleaning the house! Yikes! For the last few months I've had to think about cleaning the house for weeks before getting around to doing anything (not to my standards at all, but that's where I'm at!). So, something very profound is going on and it's not completely comfortable...

The worst of it was once I got into bed, feeling tired, if not quite ready for sleep, my heart began to do its dance and, in order to keep it steady, I had to sit up straight as a rod and remain vigilant--all night. It's amazing how I maintain my equanimity through this sort of trial--I'd read for a while, get up and go into a small room beside our bedroom, sit on the sofa, read some more, sit with my eyes closed, rearranging the half dozen pillows I have on hand for just this purpose. I won't say my neck didn't suffer for it.

Finally this morning I remembered to take a low dose B-complex (1/4 Seeking Health B-Minus) with only 500mcg of MeB12 and 1/4FMN and then slept for about an hour and a half. I probably should have taken them earlier, but I wasn't sure what was in my system and wanted things to settle before starting afresh. Also I don't just jump in with extra beta-blockers because they keep me awake if taken in the middle of the night, and leave me feeling strange, kind of routed--not pleasant. I do it, if pressed.

I think I've said before that my dear brother-in-law calls me 'The Princess and the half-pea' and I am extremely sensitive to stuff I put into my body. I know Greg would have us press on, but when I told him what was up with my heart, he didn't respond. I'm sure it makes him nervous, and I don't blame him, he's not my cardiologist.

So, I'm feeling my way along. Today lower B2 and lower B12 (and probably a nap now after lunch!). And I'll see what tonight brings...

 

[dogged_days]

@Athene “Thanks for the detail. It helps so much to compare. Your story is so like mine@@dogged_daysI had the endometrial ablation too when my ovaries went haywire as they returned after many years dormant.”

Interesting. I was in the midst of the tenth year on t4 when I had this surgery. I hadn’t left my endo yet. A gyno recommended it. With the specialties segregated like they are, no one steps on anyone else’s toes in recommending against surgeries. I was a deer in the headlights at the time.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that had we received proper treatment, or even direction, (of any kind, really) we would not be in these positions we are in now. It’s a futile, profit driven scheme, not intended to make you well. In fact I’m still angry over it all, as it gets progressively worse, and more complicated. I am only beginning to learn how to take care of myself.

“I had identical response to you on the Fredd Protocol too and thought it was miraculous, but then it tanked my iron because of the low b2, but I'm still doing a lower version of my original FP, along with the b2. I've been ill for 20+ years, so, like you and others here, it will take more time to get better than for those who have recent onset deficiencies.”

Thanks for these encouraging words. I learn a lot from you. What a tangled web.

“I never tried testosterone. Do you find you need less testosterone with your b12? I only ask because it seems to increase my testosterone (too much at times).”

Wow, I wish I could say that. There are times when I can feel prog & test doing me good. But right now I don’t feel them at all. So I’d say no, the b12 has not increased the testosterone. Since last summer I don’t feel any benefit. What I’m doing isn’t quite working right now. I am sure I am suffering from the metals.

Not a good week. Lowered the iodine Sunday. Not sure about that. Cold, exhausted, cold and agitated cold and more freakish than usual. No calm. It will take a bit to transition to the oils. I also started the adeno only oil. Maybe it was that? I’m not knowledgeable enough. I don’t know how everything interacts. It’s absolutely fascinating.

I did an experiment today however. Yes…I changed two things in one day…impatient. With my 2 x 50 B2s, I added 2 x FMNs. Within the hour my temps were up. So I’m pretty sure I need more than 100 b2. I had about an hour of warmth in the morning and the afternoon from the FNMs. The oil’s effectiveness is changing everything. The hardest thing to manage has been the hydrocortisone. I am deficient still, yet I cannot tolerate it well. 10 mgs is really difficult, but I am freezing and terribly agitated without it. Remarkable change from 25 mgs prior dose. Amazing to peel away all the props that were holding us up. HC, iodine, etc. You really see that you were merely "propping" yourself up all those years and that so many systems were not functioning properly.

@Kathevans. "My neck is much better than it was a year ago, though I still have a lot of joint, tendon and muscle pain and soreness. The thing is, as I've played with folate after having taken so much B2 on board, it seems like the folate is driving the tightening muscles. I kept going lower, raising it, back and forth with the folate, the B12, the B2, and it seems to me--in this moment--that it is, indeed, the folate that is causing the tightening. I keep recalling what Greg said to me, that"If you need more [than 400-800mcg/day], then either your methyl B12 is too low, or you have a block at MTHFR, due to B2 deficiency." I also think that I have a substantial need for Adenosyl B12, but am still not adding it at all because I want to have things settled to some extent prior. I have a very strong feeling that enough B2 will enable me to take the Ado without problems.”

So this is very encouraging, thank you. I am working to ramp the folate down! This gives me the confidence to drop the dose again. I am very happy to move on from this, it’s tough to maintain.But I am confused about the IBS symptoms I get. I thought they indicated folate deficiency. They are pretty strong right before I “need” the folate dose, and go away right after I take it. It’s all very confusing to me. There’s more going on than I know. I am sure. One thing I know. I have fingernails for the first time in my life since starting all this B business. That's pretty neat. I'm not ashamed of my hands for once.

I’m sorry to hear your heart gave you trouble last night. I hope you have restful sleep tonight with no dancing heart. Makes for such a long night.

 

[Johnmac]

Interesting @Johnmac Thanks for tip. When you say bicarb do you mean sodium bicarbonate (I have some here that's sold as 'Bread Soda' used for baking). I might just try some on adrenal/kidney achy days. Some of my pain is definitely kidney related now that you say it - it's much worse when I'm retaining fluid when Aldosterone is fluctuating. Can I ask how much bicarb (sodium bicarb?) did you use?

Yes @Athene*, sodium bicarbonate. I use a brand with no aluminium in it, needless to say.

Half a teaspoonful in a glass of water, twice a day, sipped slowly thru the day, usually does the trick; but you can overshoot & make your kidneys way too alkaline, so the safest way is to use urine test strips that you buy at the pharmacy - to keep it neutral. There is a protocol somewhere, which I can dig out if you're interested enough.

Is that Tchaikovsky's Lilac Fairy in your avatar, perchance?

 

[Kathevans]

but can only take a crumb without full on detox crash.

Have you ever looked at these: http://www.bodybio.com/ minerals? This is how I titrated up beginning with magnesium, then iodine, most recently zinc. I felt the effects of each additional drop--and there were times when I'd begin with a drop in a quarter cup of water and so on. I think I may begin to do selenium that way... I can find Brazil nuts at my local Whole Foods, but sometimes a rather large percentage of them taste moldy!

 

[Kathevans]

I am confused about the IBS symptoms I get. I thought they indicated folate deficiency. They are pretty strong right before I “need” the folate dose, and go away right after I take it. It’s all very confusing to me

This has been one of the symptoms that has driven my belief that I need folate as well. On it, as soon as it begins to wear off, I develop IBS symptoms. As I experimented, the more folate I took, the more extreme the symptoms. Interestingly, though, as I went back down and stopped the folate, the IBS disappears--of course, remember that I've been working with higher levels of B2 since January--both on and off. And yesterday, with absolutely no folate, I had no IBS, and the firmest bms I've had in years. (a lot of information, I know, but that's how we roll here!).

Now, my Dupytrens was aching more yesterday and last night. It's another symptom that I've associated with needing folate. But I also note that a while ago with just higher B2, this symptom was almost non-existant.

So, here's the thing: I think the whole symptoms thing is very confusing. Somewhere else on PR I recall someone saying that the symptoms of folate and B2 were similar, but different. When I pressed for clarification, all I got was silence! Well, I think confusion is the answer. Because the two are pretty closely intertwined, each of us has to figure it out for ourselves. At this point, though, and given my own personal experimentation, I'm thinking Greg is right, and that more B2, over time seems to help many of the ills we associate with folate deficiency.

You seem to be able to ramp up at enviable speed--either that or you are very bold (ie with the adenosyl oil), so you may be able to find clarification much faster than I have. I'm still muddling a bit.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Now, my Dupytrens was aching more yesterday and last night.

http://www.acu-cell.com/dis.html
Dupuytren's contracture: (is due to) low magnesium, low silica, low sulfur, low Vitamin C. - - Balancing minerals
alone will not reverse Dupuytren's contracture, but significant improvement is possible already with the first
electro-therapy or electro-acupuncture session. I have used 900 µAmps / 160Hz modulated AC of 1/3Hz with
good results, but most T.E.N.S. units should give satisfactory results near the 1mAmp /<200Hz range setting.

 

[Kathevans]

@Gondwanaland Thanks for this info. I was a bit disappointed when stopping all the gluten-reactive foods didn't have any effect. I've seen a hand doctor in the past, though, and all he had to offer was an operation, which didn't thrill me. I don't seem to be low magnesium, don't know about the sulphur--though I eat lots of onions, both raw and cooked!--and am certainly low in vitamin C as of a recent test.

So, things to look into...as always!

Have you heard any personal experiences with the electro-acupuncture?

 

[Johnmac]

@Gondwanaland Thanks for this info. I was a bit disappointed when stopping all the gluten-reactive foods didn't have any effect. I've seen a hand doctor in the past, though, and all he had to offer was an operation, which didn't thrill me. I don't seem to be low magnesium, don't know about the sulphur--though I eat lots of onions, both raw and cooked!--and am certainly low in vitamin C as of a recent test.

So, things to look into...as always!

Have you heard any personal experiences with the electro-acupuncture?

According to my reading on the latest in pre- and pro-biotics, raw onions are very good for feeding up & multiplying your good flora; but as strong FODMAPs they cause problems for some, & need to be withdrawn from & slowly reintroduced later. They (& other FODMAPs) are a bit of a double-edged sword.

 

[Athene*]

It's a wonder how we all keep going.

I wonder why the Adocbl is so hard to take for some of us? Biotin lack? Though I checked my OAT just now and I seem ok on biotin.

It gives me insomnia. Does that happen to anybody else?

Yes @Athene*, sodium bicarbonate. I use a brand with no aluminium in it, needless to say.

Half a teaspoonful in a glass of water, twice a day, sipped slowly thru the day, usually does the trick; but you can overshoot & make your kidneys way too alkaline, so the safest way is to use urine test strips that you buy at the pharmacy - to keep it neutral. There is a protocol somewhere, which I can dig out if you're interested enough.

Is that Tchaikovsky's Lilac Fairy in your avatar, perchance?

Cheers @Johnmac Great tip. Will try that next time. I have the strips here somewhere from another time. Yes, please do pass on the protocol if it's not too much trouble to find.

You're right about Tchaikovsky! As far as I remember it's Clara from The Nutrcracker - I was on a Christmas holiday in Copenhagen years ago and went to see it in the theatre. Such a beautiful city. I do wish I could travel more.

For the Avatar I was in a hurry - just used the first name that came to mind & picked the first small pic I could find in my image file. I do wish I had put more thought into matching them up - I love the pic, but now I'm stuck with 'Athene'!!
Your avatar is striking - is it from your local culture?

 

[Athene*]

Not a good week. Lowered the iodine Sunday. Not sure about that. Cold, exhausted, cold and agitated cold and more freakish than usual. No calm. It will take a bit to transition to the oils. I also started the adeno only oil. Maybe it was that? I’m not knowledgeable enough. I don’t know how everything interacts. It’s absolutely fascinating.

So many variables aren't there? I've done the impatient thing before and changed more than one thing at a time, otherwise it feels like I'll be at this forever.

I do find the Adocbl difficult though I'm not sure why. Greg says it reveals a shortage of biotin if one is struggling with it, but you're taking lots of that and I'm taking a good dose. On the OAT my biotin was fine. The Ado does seem to make me more cold and achy. I know @Kathevans struggles with it too. I haven't been able to figure it out.

The only thing that's certain with me is that I'm not yet optimal on the thyroid function. It's a work-in-progress. Greg did say that it's the thing that's holding me back. He can see from the OAT that I'm fine as far as the citric cycle then I'm not putting out enough energy. I'm still not making enough FAD (for which you need optimal t3, t4 and b2). I would imagine you have a big struggle on that front too. If you can tolerate iodine, maybe keep it up? (I can't tolerate it). I'm taking selenium too, and molybdenum (from food), both of which are also important for thyroid/FAD.

I haven't had a brilliant week (though not a crash) - insomnia again. I thought it might be iodine (tried to increase it slightly), but it wasn't that because I gave it up and still had insomnia. The only other thing is the B Group Oil which I began last week - I mentioned I was taking it because it had less Ado than the Ado/Methyl oil. Thing is it also has high dose Niacinamide which you pointed out (not sure if that's good or bad for me) and it has a good bit of b6 so that may be affecting my b2 (which I also decreased last couple of weeks from 200mg to 100mg). You were probably wise to decide against the b Group oil. @Kathevans I wonder if this b group oil would not be great for you either, after all? If you decide to use it, it would be interesting to see how you go...

I'm not bedridden or anything, just have less energy and feel slightly cold, just at times, not all the time. I feel like it's a matter of tweaking something again.

I might try increasing the b2 again like you have done or I might leave out the B Group Oil for a few days and just use sublingual Ado and and my low-dose oral b-complex. I will force myself to do one thing at a time!

 

[Athene*]

According to my reading on the latest in pre- and pro-biotics, raw onions are very good for feeding up & multiplying your good flora; but as strong FODMAPs they cause problems for some, & need to be withdrawn from & slowly reintroduced later. They (& other FODMAPs) are a bit of a double-edged sword.

Would that include spring onions? I could use those in salad etc, but don't think I'd fancy plain raw onions...