Video Dr. Byron Hyde - Enterovirus theory?

[Thomas]

Going back to the original video of this thread, I recall Dr. Hyde telling me a couple of years back that he actually visited the home of the person who wrote his Ph.D thesis claiming the Royal Free ME outbreak was nothing more than hysteria, in order to ask him some questions.

Dr. Hyde doesn't drink alcohol but he brought along a really nice bottle of scotch as a welcoming gift. He said at first that the gentleman was not very open about how he gathered his research or what drew him to his conclusion, however after several glasses of scotch he began to speak a little more openly. He confessed to Dr. Hyde that he didn't even speak to any patients, didn't see any, and only reviewed a couple charts. When Dr. Hyde asked him why he would conclude that the outbreak was mass hysteria, his response was something to the effect of, "haha it was a very easy way to obtain my Ph.d".

I will assume this is a true story - as most of Dr. Hyde's tales tend to be true I find. But it's crazy how just one bogus thesis by a nobody researcher could eventually lead to such harm and injustice to sufferers of this disease.

 

[Hip]

When Dr. Hyde asked him why he would conclude that the outbreak was mass hysteria, his response was something to the effect of, "haha it was a very easy way to obtain my Ph.d".

I think that's the core feature of a great deal of so-called psychological research: it's for very lazy people who don't want to do the meticulous and demanding work of real science, so instead they opt for make-it-up-as-you-go-along mumbo jumbo psychological pseudoscience.

I guess Colin McEvedy was one of these people that adopted this lazy approach. Or perhaps McEvedy was just not cut out to be a scientist, and did not have the talents and abilities of a good scientist. Looking at his 2005 obituary, it says that:

His father, Peter McEvedy, was a noted surgeon whom he greatly admired and no doubt this is why Colin became a doctor, but his earliest love was the classical world.

So he really should have been a historian, not a scientist. He clearly did not have the right talents and rigorous intellectual honesty to work in a scientific field. But his admiration of his surgeon father made him choose a medical career.

 

[eljefe19]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I have added phycocyanin to the NADPH oxidase inhibition section of the microglia activation inhibitors post.

Though I can't see in the examine.com article where it says phycocyanin (from spirulina) is more potent than apocynin (from Picrorhiza kurroa), in terms of NADPH oxidase inhibition.

https://examine.com/supplements/Picrorhiza+kurroa/

Sorry, that info was found here on the Picorhiza examine page. Section 5.

 

[Hip]

https://examine.com/supplements/Picrorhiza kurroa/

Sorry, that info was found here on the Picorhiza examine page. Section 5.

Thanks @eljefe19, I will have try spirulina again, and see if it does have any effects for me.

 

[eljefe19]

You got it man, glad to help. I just ordered some as well. It seems like with every supplement I add at this point I get compounding benefits as my stack gets more and more comprehensive. I know we are onto something here. I'm interested to know where we can acquire the interferon suppositories.

 

[Hip]

I'm interested to know where we can acquire the interferon suppositories.

Interferon suppositories are available at some pharmacies that specialize in Russian products: see this post.

 

[Violeta]

Aloe emodin for enterovirus 71

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18701259

 

[eljefe19]

Aloe emodin for enterovirus 71

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18701259

good research! Can you find anything similar against Coxsackie A And Echovirus 7?

 

[eljefe19]

@Hip hip great sourcing my friend. How would you adjust the dose, the lowest Genferon dose was 250,000 iu. Also what would the dosing schedule be?

 

[eljefe19]

@Hip also, if we were to try this, which I really believe we should, do you have any research on the best ways to supplement the Interferon? I know you believe in stacking.

 

[Hip]

@Hip hip great sourcing my friend. How would you adjust the dose, the lowest Genferon dose was 250,000 iu. Also what would the dosing schedule be?

I don't know; I have not seen what the interferon suppositories look like. If they are solid, then just cutting them in half, quarters, eighths, etc.

I have only seen three studies in which interferon injections has been tried on ME/CFS patients, Dr Chia's being the latest one. You'd have to look at those studies closely to get some ideas about dosing. Most ME/CFS patients do not respond to interferon, but around 25% do.

However, all of Dr Chia's patients eventually relapsed, so my guess is that interferon is not going to be of much use unless you take it continuously and indefinitely. I am not sure if there are and risks or dangers to long term interferon use. I am thinking in terms of taking lower doses on a longer term basis; this might generally help lower viral loads, and may not cure you of ME/CFS, but may improve symptoms.

There is one study I saw using very low dose interferon alpha suppositories for the treatment of hepatitis C, which decreased viral load. This study used 1,000 IU suppositories, taken on a daily basis.

This sort of very low dose regimen may be the best way to start, as side effect risks (such as depression) would be lower.

Interferon is a strong drug, so it would be a good idea to approach treatment using interferon with the guidance of your doctor. There are quite a few contraindications for interferon treatment:

Misuse or excessive use of drugs, depression, retinal eye changes caused by high blood pressure, heart attack, disease of the muscle of the heart with enlargement, abnormal heart rhythm, pneumonia, interstitial pneumonitis, X-Ray results showing lung tissue changes, liver inflammation caused by body's own immune response, liver failure, mild to moderate kidney impairment, psoriasis, systemic lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis, pregnancy, a mother who is producing milk and breastfeeding, infection caused by a fungus, sarcoidosis, overactive thyroid gland, hypothyroidism, retinal changes of eye in a patient with diabetes, diabetes, high amount of triglyceride in the blood, disease in which body has immune response against itself, decreased function of bone marrow, severe anemia, blood clotting disorder, decreased blood platelets, decreased white blood cells, decreased neutrophils a type of white blood cell, mental disturbance, having thoughts of suicide, thoughts of hurting or killing others

@Hip also, if we were to try this, which I really believe we should, do you have any research on the best ways to supplement the Interferon? I know you believe in stacking.

If the interferon triggers depression, then antidepressants may be necessary in order to make life more bearable. There are some studies on the use of antidepressants during interferon. There is increased suicide risk during interferon treatment, as a result of the depression: Ref: here.

NSAIDs may help in cases of interferon resistance in hepatitis C; see here. Interferon resistance is common in hepatitis C patients; see here. Interferon resistance may be caused by the hepatitis C virus itself, synthesizing proteins that disables interferon.

It is possible that enterovirus also has ways of evading the interferon response, although I have not seen any specific studies on this.

 

[halcyon]

It is possible that enterovirus also has ways of evading the interferon response, although I have not seen any specific studies on this.

They do and I believe this is part of why it's so hard to get rid of them. I've only seen research on EV71, but it's able to interfere with IFNAR1 (the interferon a/b receptor) expression via its 2A protease. I believe this is a relatively common viral countermeasure. This is why I think combined therapy would be important, as in hep C, with a translation and replication inhibitor taken along with the interferon.

 

[eljefe19]

They do and I believe this is part of why it's so hard to get rid of them. I've only seen research on EV71, but it's able to interfere with IFNAR1 (the interferon a/b receptor) expression via its 2A protease. I believe this is a relatively common viral countermeasure. This is why I think combined therapy would be important, as in hep C, with a translation and replication inhibitor taken along with the interferon.

Do you have any examples of translation and replication inhibitors for enterovirus?

 

[Hip]

Do you have any examples of translation and replication inhibitors for enterovirus?

In this post there is long (and growing) list of antivirals for coxsackievirus B and echovirus (the two enteroviruses associated with ME/CFS). Some are viral entry inhibitors, some replication inhibitors. I update the post every time I come across any good enterovirus antivirals.

You can consider trying some of the antivirals that target the particular enteroviruses that are active in your body. Dr Chia says that the two enteroviruses most commonly linked to ME/CFS are CVB3 and CVB4. There are many antivirals in that post for CVB3, but unfortunately not so many for CVB4 (CVB4 is the virus active in my body).

Note that as far as I am aware, coxsackievirus A infections are not linked to ME/CFS (I have never seen any studies or case reports linking CVA to ME/CFS).

 

[eljefe19]

@Hip like I said brotha I'm well aware of your work, and have used that post as a great resource. Interestingly, I was only tested for CVA Igg and then only tested for CVB Igm. My CVA Igg titers were incredibly high, but then my CVB Igm titers were clean. It was weird how the testing didn't overlap, but my Igm for EV7 was remarkable. My doctors seem to think though that the enterovirus is the causal factor of my CFS.

 

[Violeta]

good research! Can you find anything similar against Coxsackie A And Echovirus 7?

No, this was just a lucky hit for me.

 

[halcyon]

Do you have any examples of translation and replication inhibitors for enterovirus?

Amantadine is supposed to be a translation inhibitor of enterovirus, and things like ribavirin and lamivudine are replication inhibitors.

 

[knackers323]

do any of the drs treating enterovirus differ their treatment depending on what type of enterovirus is found?

 

[Mithriel]

As best as I can remember, Melvin Ramsay, was asked if a researcher could look at the patient files and he agreed. A colleague told him he would regret it and he did, bitterly. He spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it to his patients. McEvedy and Beard had published two accounts of mass hysterical vomiting among schoolgirls and were looking for another instance. The schoolgirls had obviously been suffering hysteria because everyone knew that gastric infections could only pass by a faecal/oral route. Now we know it was norrovirus.

I think Dr Hyde is right that it was a set up by the insurance industry, helped by a good dose of misogyny. The idea was refuted immediately, with evidence, but it did no good. It is similar to the way a group of psychiatrists we had never heard of were able to sit down and redefine an illness without any imput from the actual medical people who diagnosed, treated or researched it, when we have been unable to change the name from CFS in over thirty years.

I think Time magazine gave it prominence and helped so gave the mass hysteria idea a spurious authority and spread it far and wide. Whether it was the cover or just an article inside seems fairly irrelevant.

 

[Daisymay]

As best as I can remember, Melvin Ramsay, was asked if a researcher could look at the patient files and he agreed. A colleague told him he would regret it and he did, bitterly. He spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it to his patients. McEvedy and Beard had published two accounts of mass hysterical vomiting among schoolgirls and were looking for another instance. The schoolgirls had obviously been suffering hysteria because everyone knew that gastric infections could only pass by a faecal/oral route. Now we know it was norrovirus.

I think Dr Hyde is right that it was a set up by the insurance industry, helped by a good dose of misogyny. The idea was refuted immediately, with evidence, but it did no good. It is similar to the way a group of psychiatrists we had never heard of were able to sit down and redefine an illness without any imput from the actual medical people who diagnosed, treated or researched it, when we have been unable to change the name from CFS in over thirty years.

I think Time magazine gave it prominence and helped so gave the mass hysteria idea a spurious authority and spread it far and wide. Whether it was the cover or just an article inside seems fairly irrelevant.

Thanks Mithriel, very interesting.