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Vaccine-triggered CFS found linked to nasopharyngitis: 81% are cured or improved by treating the nasopharyngitis

sb4

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I guess it is possible MMP connective tissue-destroying enzymes from the inflammation in the nasopharynx could cause a CCI.
What about directly through inflammation "spreading" to nearby cervical connective tissue? Could the back of the throat / nasopharynx swell a bit from this inflammation and push on the clivus or c1 leading to issues.

I think tonsillitis kicked the ball rolling for me.
 

Hip

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What about directly through inflammation "spreading" to nearby cervical connective tissue? Could the back of the throat / nasopharynx swell a bit from this inflammation and push on the clivus or c1 leading to issues.
I guess that's a possibility, but I don't really know. It's not clear to me what causes this chronic nasopharynx inflammation in vaccine-triggered CFS. There's no information from Dr Hotta about whether there might be an infection in the nasopharynx causing the inflammation; but if there were, then possibly that infection could spread. The fact that the nasopharyngitis responds to zinc (which is antiviral and antibacterial) suggests it might be infection-related.
 
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Thank you so much! I'm sorry if this has been asked before, I just haven't seen it, but can you use a neti-pot to administer the zinc chloride solution? Thank you again.
 

Hip

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Thank you so much! I'm sorry if this has been asked before, I just haven't seen it, but can you use a neti-pot to administer the zinc chloride solution? Thank you again.
It might work in principle, but may be unwise, as zinc in the nose can result in a loss of sense of smell, sometimes a permanent loss. So it may be safer to dab the zinc chloride solution onto the nasopharynx using an extra long cotton swab (Q-Tip). You can buy extra long cotton swabs cheaply online, see here.

Furthermore, Dr Hotta says that it may be the actual abrasive action of rubbing and prodding the cotton swab which is just as important as the zinc chloride (see this paper). The prodding causes local bleeding, and this blood it is thought helps clean out the nasopharynx.
 
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Thank you you have been a huge help! I have one last question I'm sorry, do you know if the solution needs to be refrigerated? Thank you again for all of your help.
 

Hip

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Thank you you have been a huge help! I have one last question I'm sorry, do you know if the solution needs to be refrigerated? Thank you again for all of your help.
I would not have thought so, since zinc is antibacterial anyway. Generally, I tend to use distilled water to make up any solutions I use, because bacteria won't grow in distilled water, as it does not contain any minerals to provide nutrition for bacteria.
 
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Perfect, thank you! I just mixed some up and the mixture became very hot. Is this normal? If so I mixed it in a plastic bottle and transferred it to a glass dropper bottle after mixing it. Do you think this is ok?
 

gbells

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Definitely a 'do not try this at home' treatment because of the risk of aspirating cotton into your lungs and getting a lung infection. Only a doctor should try this.
 

gbells

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Don't confuse actute 'cfs-like' symptoms with real CFS/ME. ME is chronic. To meet the criteria you have to have the condition for 6 months or more. Just because two diseases have similar symptoms does not mean they are the same. Likely the post-vaccination pharyngitis will resolve while a ME viral pharyngitis won't.
 

Hip

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Perfect, thank you! I just mixed some up and the mixture became very hot. Is this normal? If so I mixed it in a plastic bottle and transferred it to a glass dropper bottle after mixing it. Do you think this is ok?
I could not find anything online about zinc chloride (ZnCl2) being exothermic (giving out heat) when dissolved in water, but I guess it is possible. But I would not have thought that the small amount of zinc chloride that is used would generate much heat.

How much water did you use, and how much zinc chloride did you dissolve in it?


Does your wife definitely have nasopharyngitis? Did she have blood on a cotton swab when it was prodded into the nasopharynx, using the technique described in this post?

You can buy the extra long cotton swabs required for this test online, see here.
 
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Has anyone tried this?
I asked my GP about it today, she copied the paper from 2017 and will mention it in the referral to an ENT 🤞
She also put me on a steroid nasal spray in the meantime
 

Richard7

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Definitely a 'do not try this at home' treatment because of the risk of aspirating cotton into your lungs and getting a lung infection. Only a doctor should try this.
do you have any evidence of this @gbells.

I was pretty cautious before trying and went to see an ENT first. He considered it to be a perfectly sensible thing to do and did not mention any such risk.

And I certainly did not experience anything of the sort after using hundreds of those cotton applicators/q-tips.
 

gbells

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do you have any evidence of this @gbells.

I was pretty cautious before trying and went to see an ENT first. He considered it to be a perfectly sensible thing to do and did not mention any such risk.

And I certainly did not experience anything of the sort after using hundreds of those cotton applicators/q-tips.
I'm concerned that putting a Q-tip deep in the throat might allow the tip to break off and that it might be inhaled causing an aspiration pneumonia that might need a ridgid bronchoscopy to remove.

I was cleaning my dogs ears with a q tip and the cotton top of one came off in her ear I was wondering if you could tell me what I need to do
https://www.petcoach.co/question/?id=54562
 

Richard7

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@gbells The Q-tips I used for the back of my throat were the jumbo swabs and they seem pretty robust: I cannot really see them breaking off.

I guess it is worth checking to make sure that you don't have shoddy q-tips though.
 

overtheedge

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Just finished testing, extra long q-tips worked fine, was easy enough to test in both mouth and nose. In mouth i went to the mirror and angled it to the side of the uvula then pressed the middle of the q tip stick part into the groove between one of my lower teeth and pushed down there so the q-tip at the back of throat would press upwards, keeping it in the groove made it easy to just move the q-tip back and forth without having to do any aiming. @Hip definitely right about going slow to avoid gag,

gonna keep these q-tips round in case i need to induce vomiting again instead of using a clean toothbrush or something as in the past, though maybe not, not sure how sturdy the qtips are or how much pressure i'll have to apply to cause vomiting, it's been a while since ive had to. I say maybe not bc i worry that the qtip might break off in my throat and id have to cough it up, gonna do it very carefully next time it needs doing

. Nose was also easy to test, easier since no gag reflex there, surprising how far back the nose goes, just press the q-tip as far in as you can and prod 20 times. No blood and no pain for me so i guess im negative, never had any bad reactions to vaccines that i can remember but it was worth a shot.
 
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Hipsman

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In short, I used this with oil-onion juice-honey mixture instead of zinc chloride and it put me into near remission after the first use by removing chronic fatigue and PEM, but these symptoms returned after 18 hours and it didn't work after second application.
I tested positive for nasopharyngitis, mild-moderate (1.5). I only did the nasal swab becouse of difficulties with the other one. Couldn't find extra long swabs, so I used two normal cotton swabs connected with thin match (split one vertically into two with knife to make it thin) by putting the match in between two cotton swabs, not the best solution as It could break deep inside the nose, but I am careful not to over strain it.
My ME/CFS is unusual, gradual onset with no apparent trigger. I had 3 episodes when sinusitis treatment below put me into near remission for 3-4 days. It usually took 1 hour for treatment to work, but one time it worked within 5 minutes after first application. Sadly all the symptoms return every time after the short period of relief even thou I did not stop doing the treatment. After each near remission period this treatment stopped working for a few mounts.
Take onion juice (2 teaspoons), add olive oil(2 teaspoons), honey (1 teaspoon). Take a cotton swab and dip it into the ointment. Then three times a day, insert into each nostril for 6-5 minutes.
After treatment with Ukrainian immunostimulant Erbisol the above treatment started to work differently, it works if I do it on 1 day on/2 day off cycle and it only relieves me of brain fog symptoms. However, when I tried the nasopharyngitis treatment, it put me into near remission just like my method above did in the past, but only for 18hours. It also increased my subfebrility for at least few hours to 37.8, even thou my subfebrial temperature never went higher then 37.5 in last two years that I have it.

I ordered zinc chloride technical-great quality, becouse I didn't find "supplement-great quality" in my country.

I also ordered bacterial culture test for Group A β-hemolytic streptococcus, witch I suspect to be involved in triggering my CFS (details here), I did the nasal swab myself by Prodding my nasopharynx 20 Times inside the testing lab, thankfully lab worker allowed that.
 
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Hip

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I tested positive for nasopharyngitis, mild-moderate (1.5)
56% of the healthy population also test positive for mild-moderate nasopharyngitis, so this finding is interesting, but not as significant as finding severe nasopharyngitis.



My ME/CFS is unusual, gradual onset with no apparent trigger. I had 3 episodes when sinusitis treatment below put me into near remission for 3-4 days. It usually took 1 hour for treatment to work, but one time it worked within 5 minutes after first application.
That's interesting. Looks like an area you might want to continue exploring.

Years ago when I had severe generalized anxiety disorder (GAD), triggered after my viral brain infection, this GAD was horrendous and hellish, and I would spent a lot of time each day trying to reduce anxiety levels. I used various techniques, including breathing in hot steam from a kettle into my nose (obviously not too hot, as you don't want to burn your nose).

This steam I think has an anti-inflammatory effect in my nose, which I found relieved the anxiety. So I think inflammation in the nose/sinuses may trigger inflammation in the brain (via the trigeminal nerve pathway), and the brain inflammation in turn caused mental symptoms like anxiety.



I ordered zinc chloride technical-great quality, becouse I didn't find "supplement-great quality" in my country.
Technical grade is not considered pure enough for food use, although since you are only dabbing a tiny amount onto your nasopharynx mucous membranes, it will probably be safe enough.

I think any zinc salt would work equally well; it's the zinc which had anti-inflammatory effects. Zinc acetate you can usually find as food grade, ACS grade or USP grade (which are all safe to consume).
 
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Hipsman

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I have used zinc chloride for 4 days, but becouse I experienced small improvements on oil-onion juice-honey application before when applied every 3rd day, I decided to combine it with zinc chloride by doing 2 days on zinc chloride and 1 day on oil-onion juice-honey.
However, when I stopped zinc chloride for 1 day after doing it for 4 days straight, I felt much worse the whole day, at the end of that day I felt very bad for around 2 hours, very fatigued, couldn't think reasonably and mental symptoms like suicidal thoughts (I haven't had any suicidal thoughts for at least 5 mounts). Good thing it was only for 2 hours.

I think this happened becouse my nasopharyngitis is a chronic focal infection that causes inflammation, and by removing the inflammation with anti-inflammatory I allowed the infection to become stronger, witch caused the immune system to work extra hard to get things back under control - like temporary increase local inflammation.
So I think inflammation in the nose/sinuses may trigger inflammation in the brain (via the trigeminal nerve pathway), and the brain inflammation in turn caused mental symptoms like anxiety.
I think something like this has happened to me. This article by Osamu Hotta has some interesting theory, but I cannot digest it's significance.
I also ordered bacterial culture test for Group A β-hemolytic streptococcus, witch I suspect to be involved in triggering my CFS (details here), I did the nasal swab myself by Prodding my nasopharynx 20 Times inside the testing lab, thankfully lab worker allowed that.
The test came back negative.
I do not know what infection causes my nasopharyngitis, but the most logical thing to me is treating it with antibiotics and immune modulators.
Onion (from my oil-onion juice-honey nasal application) has antibiotic properties, it has significantly improved my symptoms for a short time in the past. Immune modulator also significantly improved my symptoms, but only for around 2 weeks.
 

Hip

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I think this happened becouse my nasopharyngitis is a chronic focal infection that causes inflammation, and by removing the inflammation with anti-inflammatory I allowed the infection to become stronger, witch caused the immune system to work extra hard to get things back under control
That's a reasonable theory, but remember that zinc is a good topical antiviral and antibacterial, so as well as being anti-inflammatory, it may also inhibit infection.
 

Wayne

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zinc is a good topical antiviral and antibacterial, so as well as being anti-inflammatory, it may also inhibit infection.
@Hip -- My understanding is zinc can also knock out heavy metals that have taken up residence in zinc receptor sites. Boot enough of these heavy metals out at one time, and a person's body can easily be overcome with heavy metals circulating in the blood stream. That's why I think it's very important to take things like charcoal and/or bentonite clay when supplementing with zinc, to sop up some of those released heavy metals. -- Same principle apparently applies when supplementing with iodine as well, which can kick various bromide/bromine compounds out of iodine receptor sites.