Transdermal B12 oils

[motorhead]

Wasn't really aware of this

 

[Kathevans]

@motorhead This video is good….and yes iodine, as potassium iodide is at the basis of Greg Russell-Jones approach to getting activated B2, which assists the recycling of B12 and Folate going. I had another non-productive experience with Genestra’s Potassium Iodide because it is mixed with Kelp. Somehow, according to Greg, this deactivates the iodide, or makes it effectively simple iodine, which doesn’t work biochemically. If you use a liquid supplement that has any tinge of yellow in it, this will make the iodide ineffective. It must be in the iodide form. For this reason Greg is now recommending people use his transdermal mineral oils which, like his transdermal B12 oils, is readily absorbable by the skin…and avoids ifffy gut situations.

 

[motorhead]

@motorhead This video is good….and yes iodine, as potassium iodide is at the basis of Greg Russell-Jones approach to getting activated B2, which assists the recycling of B12 and Folate going. I had another non-productive experience with Genestra’s Potassium Iodide because it is mixed with Kelp. Somehow, according to Greg, this deactivates the iodide, or makes it effectively simple iodine, which doesn’t work biochemically. If you use a liquid supplement that has any tinge of yellow in it, this will make the iodide ineffective. It must be in the iodide form. For this reason Greg is now recommending people use his transdermal mineral oils which, like his transdermal B12 oils, is readily absorbable by the skin…and avoids ifffy gut situations.

Thanks for the infos. I'm currently waiting on both b12 oils and mineral oils from Greg, customs in Italy is taking an insane amount of time, like twice the time for the package to arrive here.

 

[garyfritz]

@garyfritz....you've put a lot of effort into this matter. However, I haven't read about any side-effects....any mention of them? If so, what are they?

Sorry to ignore you, @lenora -- I haven't been active on this site for a very long time. But it looks like Kath answered your question better than I would have.

I've been meaning to stop in for a while. As I mentioned earlier, I chelated in record time, working from 7.5mg up to 600mg PER DOSE (4800mg per day) in 44 weeks, and I held at that dose for 7 months. My remaining symptoms were basically gone, and I figured I must have vacuumed everything out with that high a dose for so long. Then the two cancer diagnoses hit, and I stopped chelating in Aug 2019 while I focused on that.

Maybe 3 months ago or so, I started having some of the night-time problems I used to have: tense, agitated, waking-nightmare type stuff, thrashing around in the bed for hours, etc. B12, my savior back in 2018-2019, didn't help much.

Then I realized... I was taking a small mountain of pills every day, taking many supplements that are shown to combat cancer in various ways. And... duh! My regimen included 600mg ALA 2x/day ! I had assumed I couldn't have any mercury left after my long high-dose chelation process, so I didn't worry about it. But 2x/day is definitely breaking Cutler's half-life rules.

I stopped the ALA, and the symptoms eased a bit. I started chelating again -- 200mg/dose 1 round, then 400, then 600. And I slept better than I had in months.

So apparently my 7 months of high-dose chelation did NOT remove all mercury from my body. Apparently there are "deeper stores" that escaped, and 2x/day ALA was enough to bring it out and redistribute it.

So I'll chelate again for a few months, and then I'll stop all ALA. Won't be going back to 2x/day doses.

 

[lenora]

Hello @garyfritz. I'm very sorry to hear that you have not one but two cancer diagnoses. Is one a primary location? Where are you going for treatment?

Yes, as our immune systems diminish that's often one of the problems we face. I keep waiting for it, but thus far everything except it. Let's just say that it wouldn't be a huge surprise when it does happen. However, I do hope you're fighting things back and that the prognosis is good. Of course immune systems diminish with old age, also and that may be what I'm in for.

Don't worry about the long time in replying...I'm managing just fine. You just need to focus on yourself and take especially good care with your diet and other things the doctors tell you. Don't be upset, I know you aren't as old as I am.

My husband is 77, and has high PSA for years (thanks to a fall) and he goes for check-ups frequently so stays on top of things. That's the important thing...the follow-through.

I'm sure many on here join me in sending you well wishes and prayers. Take care of yourself. Yours, Lenora.

 

[garyfritz]

@lenora we treated the prostate cancer with implanted radioactive pellets. Supposed to be 99% sure cure for 10 years, so I consider that one "gone." PSA has been under 0.5 for a year.

The other is a form of lymphoma, exact same evil stuff that killed my dad. Incurable and, until recently, not really treatable. Fortunately treatments have vastly improved in the last 5 years. My cancer drugs are $$ex$pen$$ive but they seem to have the cancer totally under control, with almost no side effects. My doc says I'll die of old age.

I'd be "perfectly healthy" and living a normal life, if not for COVID. My immune system is weakened, the drugs block the COVID vaccine, and they claim 40-60% COVID fatality rates for people with lymphoma. So I'm still being pretty careful.

 

[Kathevans]

So I'll chelate again for a few months, and then I'll stop all ALA. Won't be going back to 2x/day doses.

Gary,

This information is very helpful, as I know you know. I've read of people on the ACC site finishing chelation, yet continuing to do one weekend/or round a month for some time, just to continue mopping up. Apparently mercury is a great hider.

I continue to chelate, but am only at 62mgALA/dose (and so far 100 Rounds). What I have come to realize as holding me back is always deficiencies. I have known since I arrived at this site some 5 years ago that B2 was a problem, and it has been Greg R-J who has led the way in understanding this and its connection to B-12. The rough part and the constant frustration with never resolving the issued has been with getting the right mineral sources to actually steady the thyroid, to have enough Iodine, Selenium and molybdenum to get the T4 to T3 conversion working, to thus activate B2 from FMN to FAD (or vice versa!) and so then to recycle B12 and Folate.

I basically have not been converting T4 to T3, have had what is called 'Low T3' at least since 2014 (the first lab test that shows I have it) and yet my mainstream doctor has not paid any attention because my TSH has always been within the 'normal' range of .5-5 (though it has been creeping upward from about 2.15 to 3.85 in these years).

Of course it is no doubt mercury that messed up my thyroid in the first place--and my methylation. Fingers crossed that I am moving in the right direction now. As with your recent discovery of the down side of 2x/day dosing of ALA, I have found a medical article that says ALA blocks the conversion of T4 to T3. But it doesn't say at what doses, etc. I have never heard this before, but need to get around to asking others on ACC to see if they have experienced problems during chelation. If it were that much of an issue, I would imagine that many on ACC would have experienced problems, and frankly, I've never heard of it...

We shall see.

Meanwhile, I'm glad to hear you're in remission and have a great prognosis. Onward with vitamins and minerals and our genetic issues!

As to the Covid vaccine - maybe the 'third booster' which they are talking about can boost your immune system--I've heard this speculation. Meanwhile, we are all being cautious given the new variants, though you clearly have even greater challenges...

Take care...

 

[garyfritz]

Thanks Kath, you too. It's been a long hard road for you, and I hope you continue improving!

 

[motorhead]

maybe the 'third booster' which they are talking about can boost your immune system--I've heard this speculation.

Seems more like the opposite is happening for many. Did you get the shot?
Looks like we are going to need immunization passport to get on public transportation, among other things, pretty soon here in Italy.
Funny to think how early some people talked about it and were laughed at.

 

[motorhead]

I have found a medical article that says ALA blocks the conversion of T4 to T3. But it doesn't say at what doses, etc. I have never heard this before, but need to get around to asking others on ACC to see if they have experienced problems during chelation. If it were that much of an issue, I would imagine that many on ACC would have experienced problems, and frankly, I've never heard of it...

Ah that's a new one. There's users in here who were on huge quantities of ALA.
Hope you can get answer, seems the kind of question that would get quickly deleted from the fb group, I've yet to ask'em what they make of R-LA considering is much more potent.

 

[Kathevans]

Seems more like the opposite is happening for many. Did you get the shot?

I got the Moderna vaccine beginning in February and had a sore arm for several days after each time, but no more. Greg says the important thing is to have ample B-12 and Vitamin D and I do supplement both, so maybe that helped. My son who is highly allergic had it a couple of months later and had more fatigue with the second shot, but nothing more (despite having had many anaphylactic reactions in his life where we had to use
the Epi pen and steroids in the Emergency room), and a cousin with Lupus has done well on the vaccine, though he continues to be very careful and uses masks always. In fact, my son has just taken his first trip since the pandemic. He flew to Lalapalooza in Chicago, but of course, had to be masked on the plane, and was required to show his vaccine card to be admitted. That said, he has told me that he stays out of the thick of the crowd, enjoys the music from the periphery, and hasn't used an indoor port-a-potty!

There's users in here who were on huge quantities of ALA.

In fact, I've taken fairly high doses of ALA - only up to 75mg/dose, but even at that, I'd noticed my TSH had risen over the past few months from 2.6 to about 3.7 (it had been as low as 1.9, and of course the goal is .5-1.5), so I am taking a break for at lest a month or two to see if it goes back down with the levels of iodine and selenium I'm taking. As to R-LA, it is definitely NOT recommended by the Cutler people, though I don't know anything about it. I do understand they are two different things entirely...

 

[motorhead]

Just got the b12 and minerals, immediately applied a full dose (8 drops of iodide) thinking I'd turn into superman in a matter of minutes (considering I'm vegan), no reaction whatsoever. Don't know what the people on the fb page are on about mentiong pinhead starting doses.

 

[Kathevans]

Just got the b12 and minerals, immediately applied a full dose (8 drops of iodide) thinking I'd turn into superman in a matter of minutes (considering I'm vegan), no reaction whatsoever. Don't know what the people on the fb page are on about mentiong pinhead starting doses.

We are all different, as you certainly know by now! I have been taking the mineral supplements for almost three weeks and have been struggling to find any balance at all. I have suffered both insomnia from as little as 2 drops of iodine and 1 each of molybdenum and selenium; and heart palpitations --last night for a loooong time--when I tried to increase the iodine to 3 drops and also increased the moly and se.

Perhaps your thyroid is not a problem for you... Have you done a Thyroid panel? A Hair Toxic Mineral Analysis?

How lucky you are if this is a breeze for you!

 

[motorhead]

Have you done a Thyroid panel?

FT3/FT4/TSH from last week's blood test are in ranges:

Never done a HTMA, I'm a bit tight lately and will need to save for supplements.
As for insomnia I wouldn't notice cause I'm already a sufferer, I guess my current state shields me from those mood plunges too that I read in the groups. The perks of being a mess.

 

[motorhead]

Took the first squirt (edit: make it SIX now) of B12 today preceded by a 15mg (edit: 30 mg) MTHF supplement, L-carnitine fumarate and 5mg of lithium orotate, feeling so far? yup you've guessed it; none.
Seems no matter what I take I just can't get any changes. Just hopeless.
The fb group is on holidays mode so no posting allowed, they state the oils don't lose efficacy over a period of six months, that's
how long I stored'em in the closet since this summer.
Even by going with the assumption this stuff has lost all the efficacy what about the mthf?
that's brand new bought today, 30 mg is considered a massive dose, according to some people I now should be in full psycho raging bull mode.

 

[Kathevans]

Took the first squirt (edit: make it SIX now) of B12 today preceded by a 15mg (edit: 30 mg) MTHF supplement, L-carnitine fumarate and 5mg of lithium orotate, feeling so far? yup you've guessed it; none.

Well, I don't know what to say about this! I assume the oils would still have been good; I've certainly kept containers in a drawer for long periods of time. But I am flummoxed by your lack of any response whatsoever. And the addition of 30mg of Methyl folate as well? What brand?

I've found that I tolerate folate less and less as I get other minerals (Greg's recommendations to activate B2 based on your thyroid readings--iodine, selenium and molybdenum), the B2 and B-12 on board.

But I haven't followed this thread closely enough to know what your symptoms are, or what your genetics are. I can say that Greg likes to see the TSH somewhere between .5 and 1.5 and the T4 and T3, he measures Total T4 and Total T3, not the numbers you've listed.

Yes the FB site is on a break (Greg and his team are away as this is summer there), but there will be an admin back I believe on the Thursday and Friday after Christmas.

I too have the insomnia issue and have for years. It's a hard one to resolve I think. As to testing, Greg also has people do an OAT Test (Organic Acids), or a NutrEval, both of which reveal more information about the functionality of vitamins and minerals in your body.

Good luck in your search. If you believe that your issues involve B-12, Greg and his transdermal oils are a very good place to explore...

 

[motorhead]

Yup, 30 mg no reaction whatsoever, italian company, it is in the correct form as it's same as Metafolin. I even raised lithium to 20mg, like taking water.

Not sure what those total T4/T3 are compared to those I posted, just last week I had a rheumatologist ripping me off of 160€ for a 30 mins visit in which I did the talking for 28 mins, said the blood tests are ok. Sent me off with the advice of taking PEA fatty acids and to exercise, this when I can barely get off the bed.
Oh and of course to talk to a psychologist, it wouldn't have been a proper consultation hadn't it ended on that note. Takes me almost four days to make that kind of money.

Those OAT tests run at around 500€ which is totally out of my budget now, I've no idea what causes my CFS but neither do the doctors, that's for sure.


Targeting B12 seemed a reasonable attempt, I guess the logic thing to do now is to try lozenges and see the response.

 

[Jadzhia]

Very interested to find this thread! I've been following GRJ's protocol for the past two years in an attempt to improve my health. Some things have improved, others not. I'm still a work in progress, it seems. I started on transdermal B12 oil in January 2020, having done an OAT and HTMA as GRJ likes to see where one is at re vitamin/mineral levels. Needless to say I was deficient in B12, B2, iron, Vit D, slightly in B1, and my ketones were quite raised (I was underweight at the time as I was barely eating due to histamine intolerance and oxalate issues, so was likely breaking down body proteins). He reckons one can fix histamine and oxalate issues by repleting B2, and this is done via a cascade starting with Iodine, Selenium and Molybdenum and the thyroid, as I have seen others mention in this thread.

I am hypothyroid (autoimmune) and was already taking T3 only when I began on the protocol. GRJ isn't a fan of T3 as he says it's too difficult to regulate, but I am no fan of T4 monotherapy as it just didn't work for me. He wants me to go back onto T4 and from there try to reduce that and hopefully end up not needing thyroid hormones, provided the Iodine, Selenium work and I have thyroid function left. I'm not convinced of this approach. It might have worked when I was first diagnosed, as I think possibly Selenium deficiency was my main problem. However I didn't come across GRJ for some years and in the intervening time, gave up gluten, went dairy free, and I defintely made myself more deficient in B2 the process. So it's no longer an easy fix, if it ever was. I have spent the past few years trying various thyroid hormone combos. T4 only, then NDT, then T3 only, and am currently on a mix of T4 and T3. I just never feel well, so clearly something else is out of kilter. Doctors in the UK are reluctant (understatement!) to prescribe T3 and my doctor told me I wouldn't get it anyway, so I self-source. It does make my brain feel so much clearer, so even though that's the only noticeable improvement from T4 only therapy, it's well worth it.

I also tried taking I/Se/Mo transdermal oils after I'd been on B12 oil for awhile and had worked up to the full dosages of oral I/Se/Mo. I found after several months I could smell something musty coming from my skin. My taste was ruined by the mustiness, my clothes smelt of it. I decided it must be the oils (that's a lot of oil to put on daily) and I cut out the I/Se/Mo and went back to tablets, but kept the B12 oil as I don't think there's a better source. The mustiness reduced to a manageable level, I can still smell it occasionally but it's bearable. No idea what it is or what causes it. The Moly did fix my low stomach acid which was giving me reflux, so that's also a huge plus. I have now switched to liquid Moly as I find I absorb it better, hoping to do the same with Selenium.

I still occasionally contact GRJ if I have new results. He can be a bit grumpy but his biochemical knowledge is undeniable, and he has a huge amount of data now from all the people he helps or gets OATs from.

 

[Kathevans]

Thank you for this long and comprehensive post. Your profile is very like many of us who have found our way to Greg and his oils. His hard work in trying to find out sources of the Iodine/Selenium/Molybdenum that actually work has led him to develop the companion mineral oils that go with his B-12 Oils. If one has multiple B-12 snps, as well as MAO/B2 issues, this may be a worthwhile path to check out. Greg says that of those he has worked with with this profile (and I believe there are over a thousand of us or more), he says 100% of us are B-12 deficient (often 'paradoxically' which is a challenge to uncerstand!), and 80% of us are B2 deficient.

Unfortunately, like you, it has been very hard to convince a doctor to look into my thyroid as a source of problems. Because my TSH falls within the 'normal' range of between .5 and 5, they ignore the fact that my total T3 has been hovering at or below range ( 76-180ng/dL) as far back as I've been keeping track of it (2014). Also like you, a little selenium back then might have gone a long way. Now, who knows?

I've struggled with my health for about 25 years.

 

[Kathevans]

Very interested to find this thread! I've been following GRJ's protocol for the past two years in an attempt to improve my health. Some things have improved, others not. I'm still a work in progress, it seems.

Thank you for this long and comprehensive post. Your profile is very like many of us who have found our way to Greg and his oils. His hard work in trying to find out sources of the Iodine/Selenium/Molybdenum that actually work has led him to develop the companion mineral oils that go with his B-12 Oils. If one has multiple B-12 snps, as well as MAO/B2 issues, this may be a worthwhile path to check out. Greg says that of those he has worked with with this profile (and I believe there are over a thousand of us or more), he says 100% of us are B-12 deficient (often 'paradoxically' which is a challenge to understand!), and 80% of us are B2 deficient.

Unfortunately, like you, it has been very hard to convince a doctor to look into my thyroid as a source of problems. Because my TSH falls within the 'normal' range of between .5 and 5, they ignore the fact that my total T3 has been hovering at or below range ( 76-180ng/dL) as far back as I've been keeping track of it (2014). Also like you, a little selenium back then might have gone a long way. Now, who knows?

I've struggled with my health for about 25 years