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Transdermal B12 oils

Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
The FMN demand symptoms are a bit like methylfolate, but not quite.
What do you see them as? Just now, I associate IBS and diarrhea with Folate, (not to mention runny nose, depression/sadness, uneasy digestive tract--these come from Fred's list), and also stiff tight neck and facial muscles (but I may be wrong about this last one, which is giving me a lot of problems). All in all, I'm a bit confused. Or maybe flummoxed.
 

CCC

Senior Member
Messages
457
What do you see them as? Just now, I associate IBS and diarrhea with Folate, (not to mention runny nose, depression/sadness, uneasy digestive tract--these come from Fred's list), and also stiff tight neck and facial muscles (but I may be wrong about this last one, which is giving me a lot of problems). All in all, I'm a bit confused. Or maybe flummoxed.
Folate is mainly red eyes and an angular chelitis thing at the outside corner of the eye. The digestive tract stuff for us is a need for more folate, and we don't have the other symptoms you listed.

B2 appears to be other inflammation symptoms, but I can't get a good description from the boy using it. He just says his body 'knows', which I know is useless to you, and not helpful to me. :bang-head:

If I can get something more descriptive, I'll post it here for you.
 

CCC

Senior Member
Messages
457
I do find my body's response to the FMN is immediate, so I know what you mean. Still I wonder if taking B2 orally gets into your system, but more slowly. To that end I've been taking about 10mg r-5-p orally with my dinner and it seems to keep my symptoms at bay for most or all of the night--so far.

B2 orally was next to useless for us. FMN is the stuff we need.
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
Folate is mainly red eyes and an angular chelitis thing at the outside corner of the eye. The digestive tract stuff for us is a need for more folate, and we don't have the other symptoms you listed.
Hmmm. I tend to have red eyes. I don't have chelitis, but I do often have mouth sores -- canker sores, or just sore spots from rubbing against my teeth. I was wondering if I had some kind of epithelial issue. Maybe I should try folate again and see if that improves it.
 

CCC

Senior Member
Messages
457
Hmmm. I tend to have red eyes. I don't have chelitis, but I do often have mouth sores -- canker sores, or just sore spots from rubbing against my teeth. I was wondering if I had some kind of epithelial issue. Maybe I should try folate again and see if that improves it.
We have an immediate response (less than 30 minutes) from folate. Freddd didn't seem to think that would be normal as he seems to quote hours rather than minutes before you notice the effect.

On another note: did you ever get an explanation for needing so much of the adenosyl/methyl B112 oil?
 

CCC

Senior Member
Messages
457
We worked out one possible reason for a high demand for adenosylB12. It's called growing - a bit less than an inch in a few weeks. Yay for those pencil marks on the wall to measure these things.
 

winston

Senior Member
Messages
102
Location
Central California
Lol, i think ive dealt with every "systemic" inflammatory type symptom possible, caused by reactions to virtually anything you can imagine. My immune system is out of control, thats my primary problem. Im a bad lyme/mercury victim still in treatment.

Theres ALOT of different ways that can manifest itself. My ex-girlfriend used to get symptoms very similar to yours from eating yogurts cultured with a certain bacteria. She dealt with it for years clueless to the correlation until i pointed it out shortly after we met.

Use your imagine as to what can cause things like that to happen, you could tell me anything in a case like yours at this point and i wouldnt be surprised. If something like that is happeneing with you, it sounds like its pretty consistent, so it seems that could be caused by a bug (theyre pretty much always there) or maybe some physiological process is pushing your immune system in that direction.

If i were you, i would put some effort into looking for bugs and would consider the possibilty of a hypersensitivity to anything that doesnt have your dna.

Ive had crp and sed rate done several times in the past to try to make sense of it, only a few times were either one elevated. I'll put some thought into what other possible markers you could look for, its been a while since i put any thought or effort in that direction.

Also, there were periods, depending on where my immune system was at and what i was sensitive to, where my symptoms were dramatically elevated at night. It was like they were on a schedule even. I figured that was due to diurnal hormone changes.

The closest thing ive found in effectiveness and similarity to mb12 is really freakin cold showers, or sometimes nsaids. Next best would be a whole arsenal of supplemental/herbal anti-inflammatories, ie fish oil, pure egcg, buhner herbs etc. Nothing has been consistent across the board, it varies depending... Nothing has been as bad@#$ as high dose mb12 for alot of things though.

If this idea turns out to have legs, you might want to check out Dr. Ty Vincents work developing low dose immunotherapy (ldi). An alternative doc from pennsylvania with a radio show had him on last year and what theyre discovering as far as loss of tolerance and related problems is pretty astounding. I recommend giving it a listen anyways.
I also have Lyme disease and MTHFR a1298c and high lead and high mold. Where do you start? I started the B oils and have a new naturopath trying to figure out what to do with me. Has anything worked for you so far?
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
Hmmm. I tend to have red eyes. I don't have chelitis, but I do often have mouth sores -- canker sores, or just sore spots from rubbing against my teeth. I was wondering if I had some kind of epithelial issue. Maybe I should try folate again and see if that improves it.

Canker sores are a pretty common mercury symptom, Gary. I've had them myself, when chelating, & know someone who got them bigtime after being Hg poisoned. But I'm not sure if there's agreement on whether methyl B12 can mobilise mercury in the absence of chelation...
 

SJB944

Senior Member
Messages
178
Anyone have an idea how many squirts a day of the mb12 oil would be the equivalent of 25mg MB12 sublingual? Or is it just a trial and error thing?
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
That depends entirely on how effective your sublingual is. Freddd says it's probably 2-3% absorption, vs. 80% for the oil. I was taking 25-30mg/day with sublinguals and still felt lousy. 3 squirts/day of ado/methyl works great for me. Most people need less. Yes, it's mostly trial and error.
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
Back at the start of this thread @liverock said:
Dr Yasko found that at the MTR/MTRR junction the heavy metals, mercury and lead, tend to park on these 2 enzymes which can antagonise MB12. You may find MB12 going further if you start chelating these heavy metals.
You may have been well ahead of me. I've recently begun to realize that my "b12 symptoms" may in fact be mercury symptoms. There is no good direct test for mercury toxicity, but several clues point strongly in that direction. Also a hair-metals test showed very high levels of lead. I plan to get my mercury amalgam fillings removed this winter (a mandatory prerequisite before chelation) and then I'll start the Cutler protocol to chelate out both the mercury and the lead.
 

Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
@garyfritz Agreed. Over recent years my Mercury levels on the NutrEval test have moved from .05 to .01, both in the red, probably through my use of daily bentonite clay. It's slow going. I have only two small mercury amalgams left, but I'm going to have them removed soon and will look at Cutler once I have.
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
I'm doing a NutrEval test this week. Will be interesting to see what it says... I have 8 (I think) amalgams so mine is probably higher.
 

sflorence

Senior Member
Messages
134
reporting back for a final conclusion on my oil trial.

I have tried the methyl/adeno mix and did not see any more improvement than what I was getting with sublingual. Maybe like a 10% improvement over the sublingual, if even. Then again, if you are doing the Fred protocol, and don't want to rot your teeth, this is a good option.

Also, overall the Fredd protocol gave me about 15% more energy, which is OK but really not much when you are bed riddent.
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
Yes, the teeth rotting is a big issue. I always recommend the Country Life Methyl B12 5000mcg -- ONLY that one -- because it has no sugars, no acids, no folic acid, and the sweetener (Xylitol) is actually *beneficial* to teeth.

Sorry you didn't get better results with the oil!