This blog post of mine details my symptoms from methyl trap.
Here are some notes, from another of my blog posts, on methyl trap and folate insufficiency.
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Thirst for MFolate, those that have ramped up
- Thread starter sregan
- Start date
This blog post of mine details my symptoms from methyl trap.
Here are some notes, from another of my blog posts, on methyl trap and folate insufficiency.
My adrenals LOVE silymarin
P.S. I take just a few sublingual drops of a liquid extract taht normalized my body temperature
I took a Milk Thistle before bed and did seem to help me sleep. When do you take yours? and how much?
And you just keep on knockin' 'em out of the park, @sregan!
I've been having some ramped up inflammation on my face ever since I got sick in December. Eyelids still inflamed (although vision is fine now and blood sugar much lower and more stable though first morning glucose not entirely ideal yet) and some inflammation across the bridge of my nose.
At first I chalked it up to "side effect" from the nootropics, but it's been ongoing, not improving, and maybe in the last couple weeks getting worse.
So I've been thinking about whether or not it could be toxin release from stored fat being metabolized.
Then your post. Serendipity, baby!
Seems also that choline (big part of my nootropic regimen) also lowers blood sugar and is a fairly potent detoxifier of the liver. So it could have played a role in my illness. Then, once the metabolic ball got rolling, inflammation has stayed high due to toxin release from stored fat. In addition to heavy gut regimen of fiber and probiotics, and altering my diet for good starches/PHD, I've been alternate day fasting to see how much it would help my blood sugar. As a result I've lost a fair amount of fat in a pretty short period of time.
Interestingly, I'm also experiencing some bumps on my forearms and the back of my upper arms/shoulders that traditionally show up when I've been behaving especially badly (taking in lots of toxins and things that are bad for me and my liver).
All pointing to toxin release.
My advice on milk thistle/glutathione and NAC: if you don't have known issues with them, try them to see what happens. They may help you. If you do have known issues then ponder hard before taking or just leave them alone. FWIW, ramping up glutathione production with milk thistle and glycine/glutamine/NAC did help me a lot when I was chelating
I get somewhat brain foggy on NAC but not bad. To my knowledge milk thistle doesn't bother me. Think I'll get some and give it another whirl. Plus up my vitamin C.
BTW, despite inflammation I'm still feeling pretty good energically speaking. I have more energy and motivation. I just want my skin to go back to normal. Given the amount of adipose I have to detox, however, no telling how long that will take.
It does sound like detox. If you are fasting it's very likely! I hope you are right. Get lots of good fiber and you might do good with a weekly charcoal flush if you can fit it into your supplement schedule. Maybe add some Artichoke or Ox Bile to reduce bile/toxin recapture.
Gondwanaland
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My seed extract is supposed to have 35mg/drop. I started taking 1 drop, felt good results and worked up to 4 drops now. I take it usually 1 hour after dinner, sometimes 2 hours before dinner, sometimes 1 hour after lunch AND dinner, depending on how much my adrenals need it.
Forgot to take mine last night, but gonna add Tryptophan and P5P today, maybe Tyrosine also. After looking at the BH4 cycle in the methylation diagram and seeing where the neurotransmitters are made. Seems speeding this up is gonna exhaust the raw materials. The diagram in this post on page 3 got me thinking about that. I don't know if it's that simple but since I've already got all the supplements on hand (over 200) we'll see what happens.
TL,DR: I am concerned with methylfolate increasing my desire for potassium, then I respond by taking more potassium, then I suffer bad after effects that feel like potassium overdose.
I just wish I could take a constant, conservative dose of methylfolate... and a constant, conservative dose of K, and get constant conservative effects... rather than paradoxical insufficencies and shifting demands.
What should I do?
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I have been on a "low carb" type diet without a bunch of calories from food potassium sources. My main carb has been white rice, which has very little K. I have been drinking a good deal of MTHFRade. It helps me.
After supplementing B2 I have been able to tolerate methylfolate. 200mcg / dose feels just right. Causes mellow euphoria and increase in glutathione-like feelings.
400mcg makes me feel "stoned" and overstimulated - I think too many neurotransmitters my MAO A can't break down fast enough. 100mcg causes paradoxical insufficiency symptoms pretty fast.
1 200mcg methylfolate dose only last about 4 to 5 hours - I feel glutathione euphoria and energy, then I feel "blurry," slow, achy, inflamed and want more. I have been doing 2 doses a day.
On about the 5th day, after feeling wonderful for most of the day... in the evening I started to get hit hard with low potassium AND paradoxical folate insufficency described by Freddd as usually occurring on the 3rd day. I felt so foggy headed, slow and inflamed I couldn't really rationally deal with things. I took 100mcg more folate, which gave a little relief, and drank an additional 450mg of Potassium,... in additional to the 1350mg K in electrolyte solutions I had consumed earlier that day. (1800mg total potassium intake in the form of LoSalt). I felt some relief and could sleep...
but I woke up the next morning feeling 'wiped out,' depressed and had a cloudy feeling in my kidney area.
I have this problem where I am already taking a lot of potassium, take folate and the body screams "MOAR POTASSIUM!!!" and I feed it... and then I get a hyperkalemia type reaction, hangover. It's happened twice and I am very wary.
I think that my "low carb" diet has been way too low in potassium and before my next folate experiement I will have a naturally high potassium diet in place. I have already begun eating 6 boild green bananas (1700mg in K , at least, that I didn't have before) per day. Hopefully getting tons more potassium from food, which sound be safer, so that cries for more potassium can be managed with just a little bit of extra potassium... rather than drinking chemical potassium chloride all day and then taking extra. Hoping a better diet can make me more prepared for methylfolate / methylation.
I just wish I could take a constant, conservative dose of methylfolate... and a constant, conservative dose of K, and get constant conservative effects... rather than paradoxical insufficencies and shifting demands.
What should I do?
---
I have been on a "low carb" type diet without a bunch of calories from food potassium sources. My main carb has been white rice, which has very little K. I have been drinking a good deal of MTHFRade. It helps me.
After supplementing B2 I have been able to tolerate methylfolate. 200mcg / dose feels just right. Causes mellow euphoria and increase in glutathione-like feelings.
400mcg makes me feel "stoned" and overstimulated - I think too many neurotransmitters my MAO A can't break down fast enough. 100mcg causes paradoxical insufficiency symptoms pretty fast.
1 200mcg methylfolate dose only last about 4 to 5 hours - I feel glutathione euphoria and energy, then I feel "blurry," slow, achy, inflamed and want more. I have been doing 2 doses a day.
On about the 5th day, after feeling wonderful for most of the day... in the evening I started to get hit hard with low potassium AND paradoxical folate insufficency described by Freddd as usually occurring on the 3rd day. I felt so foggy headed, slow and inflamed I couldn't really rationally deal with things. I took 100mcg more folate, which gave a little relief, and drank an additional 450mg of Potassium,... in additional to the 1350mg K in electrolyte solutions I had consumed earlier that day. (1800mg total potassium intake in the form of LoSalt). I felt some relief and could sleep...
but I woke up the next morning feeling 'wiped out,' depressed and had a cloudy feeling in my kidney area.
I have this problem where I am already taking a lot of potassium, take folate and the body screams "MOAR POTASSIUM!!!" and I feed it... and then I get a hyperkalemia type reaction, hangover. It's happened twice and I am very wary.
I think that my "low carb" diet has been way too low in potassium and before my next folate experiement I will have a naturally high potassium diet in place. I have already begun eating 6 boild green bananas (1700mg in K , at least, that I didn't have before) per day. Hopefully getting tons more potassium from food, which sound be safer, so that cries for more potassium can be managed with just a little bit of extra potassium... rather than drinking chemical potassium chloride all day and then taking extra. Hoping a better diet can make me more prepared for methylfolate / methylation.
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SwanRonson
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How much B2 are you taking?
35.2mg per day - divided into 3 doses. Before each meal.
Gondwanaland
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@Sherpa how about B1/B3? It is my impression that B1 is for potassium the same as B6 for magnesium. It is useless to have plenty of the mineral if you don't have the vitamin to metabolize it. Of course I could be wrong, but then Dr. Lynch also recommended B1 before taking mfolate (in a context related to sulfites though).
@Gondwanaland I am on a balanced B-complex to take care of B1 and B3 needs. It's working (I can tolerate some methylfolate - unbelievable!) so I'm not inclined to change much now!
Took no MFolate today at all and only 1 Enz Mb12. Feel I need to wash out for a few days. Felt much better for it today.
Not sure if I am expecting a type of withdrawl but I think I need to get a better game plan before I go at it again. A little more study of cofactors perhaps. Like in the diagram posted my mgk here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b12-increases-need-for-magnesium.35144/#post-550706
That diagram shows Zn all over the place and I'm barely taking any. I'd like to get an idea of Zn requirements also wondering if anyone is taking NADH?
Not sure if I am expecting a type of withdrawl but I think I need to get a better game plan before I go at it again. A little more study of cofactors perhaps. Like in the diagram posted my mgk here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b12-increases-need-for-magnesium.35144/#post-550706
That diagram shows Zn all over the place and I'm barely taking any. I'd like to get an idea of Zn requirements also wondering if anyone is taking NADH?
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whodathunkit
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Niacin in any form, even NADH, make me feel like crap. Shuts down methylation for me. For whatever that's worth. I avoid stuff with any niacin or any form/derivative of niacin like the plague. Seems I get what I need from food. FWIW.
SwanRonson
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Are you going to continue the 1mg Enzy each day during the washout period?
I took 4-5 MB12 yesterday and 2 of my 800mcg mfolates thinking it might be Methyl Trap. I was doing good on a 2:1 MB12:Mfolate ration but haven't maintained that. I'm feeling some inflamation and I've had a feeling for the last 2 weeks that I've hit some type of deficiency with some night time symptoms I'm having. I'm gonna try to hold tight at a reduced dose. If anyone has any recommendations I'd like to hear about what to do (In liu of stopping completely and starting over). If there is some danger involved in just stopping.
Gondwanaland
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please describe it
Arthritic type in the knuckles of my hand also come cramping in my calves. Thought that was due to Mg deficiency or K but I've taken those and still didn't resolve.
I'm doing pretty good though, yesterday was fairly normal.
Gondwanaland
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What type of Mg do you take?
I don't know the solution to it, but the probable cause is too much purines. What helped me so far was Mg oxide. But then again I never touched Mfolate again
@Sherpa - can you share your adrenal fatigue protocol, with dosages? I just started taking 1/4 teaspoon of DGL 1 - 2x per day and it's like the lights are back on! I finally feel like I'm on the right track. I feel like it's the right time for me to be addressing this (I've just had a good long rest during some time off work), but I don't want to burn out my adrenals by "revving them up" too much either... I'm also eating low carb, which I think helps adrenals.. How much pantethine per day? how much liposomal vitamin c? i have both of these and was just starting to research dosages when I saw your post... anything else you recommend? thanks.
I took up to 1200mg of pantethine (4x a day ) and up to 8g of C in mixed forms to ensure higher absorption. All in divided doses, 3x - 4x a day. I worked up to these levels slowly over several months from very basic (500mg) doses. After several months of feeling healing energy and improvement at the high plateau... I slowly tapred back down over the course of maybe 1 year and I could stand on my own legs.
I would recommend regular licorice vs DGL. I think it has a little more kick. It gives energy and helps avoid crashes but I like to get most of my energy from vitamins and not depend on adaptogens so I took breaks on them regularly.
I recommend Dr. Lam's book and articles. I will say his advice was generally excellent and following it brought me to higher levels of health.
I took a niacin capsule this morning (100 mg), thought maybe I need to slow down any methylation happening or soak up methyl donors. Within 15 minutes was extremely flush especially my head and neck. Neck felt like it was on fire. But after have a nice calming peaceful feeling. This is has been missing for a while. I didn't realize how jittery and on edge I have become. Was constantly biting my fingers and nails. Mind always uneasy, very hard to focus.
I've got 2 COMT +/- maybe they are an issue.
I did have a lot of positives on the protocol.
Not so sure what to do now (except more reading