The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[Ripley]

@Lou, you're quite welcome! I'm just paying it forward, from those who helped me with my gut issues.

@Hip, again, very good questions. I'm afraid I don't know the answer. You might want to ask Grace/Dr. BG on her blog or Tim Steele (aka "Tatertot") over at freetheanimal.com (just pose a question in the bottom of any RS post, such as this one). If either of them don't know, I'm sure someone who's been researching these finer details of RS and those species will get back to you.

 

[Lou]

@Ripley There's a chelating substance I've been taking that seems to have quite a positive effect on me, it's called Ultra Liquid Zeolite. My question, if you can help:

The company claims it acts like a pH buffer to help prevent acidity in the blood and cellular fluids, further that it buffers body pH to a healthy alkalinity. So if I'm doing RS which, among other things, helps colon acidity (a good thing as reported in this thread) do you think taking the Zeolite supplement counterproductive?

If you have thoughts about this, I'd appreciate them. Thanks.

 

[South]

@Ripley - in post #22 you mentioned hypoglycemia, but to me that connection could not happen since resistant starch is not digestible by the human body (only digested by the bacteria in the gut). Could you explain? I would hate to see people fearful of trying resistant starch if they are worried about hypoglycemia.

In fact resistant starch may be an answer to hypoglycemia: there's a study on raw cornstarch about it that I can't find, but know I've seen somewhere, and if you go to the following thread and in the thread do a search for the word "hypoglycemia" there are other positive comments about resistant starch actually preventing hypoglycemia:
http://freetheanimal.com/2013/04/resistant-assimilation-resistance.html

 

[Ripley]

@Ripley There's a chelating substance I've been taking that seems to have quite a positive effect on me, it's called Ultra Liquid Zeolite. My question, if you can help:

The company claims it acts like a pH buffer to help prevent acidity in the blood and cellular fluids, further that it buffers body pH to a healthy alkalinity. So if I'm doing RS which, among other things, helps colon acidity (a good thing as reported in this thread) do you think taking the Zeolite supplement counterproductive?

If you have thoughts about this, I'd appreciate them. Thanks.

Excellent question. I should point out that I'm just a layman who has read a lot about RS. But, I have little expertise in other areas.

My guess is you don't need to worry. But, that's purely based on Jeff Leach's explanation for why we want an acidic colon:

When it comes to the health and well being of your gut microbes, nothing matters more than fermentable substrates (You can read about here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here – you get the idea). As the rules/tenants of basic microbial ecology go, a reduction in fermentable substrates derived from carbohydrates means less energy sources for the microbes – who depend on host-derived substrates as well, as in the case of mucin-degraders like Akkermansia. As fermentation drops, so to does the byproducts of fermentation which include short chain fatty acids (primarily acetate, butyrate, propionate), organic acids, and gases like hydrogen. All of this can and will dramatically shift the pH of the colonic environment. As it stands in a healthy or normal gut, the pH of the colon changes from proximal to distal end, being more acidic in the proximal (front) end than the tail end – mainly as a function of more rapid fermentation as food items empty from the small intestine. As the pH shifts to being more alkaline from less fermentation, a number of shoes begin to drop (or can). [LINK]

So, more fermentation means more acidity. In other words, it sounds like the acidity in the colon comes directly from the fermentation process, in a very localized area. I doubt that product could erase all that localized acidity pouring out of those critters. I wouldn't worry about it, particularly if we are talking about short term chelation. But, I'm not a doctor and I don't have expertise in that area.

 

[Ripley]

@Ripley - in post #22 you mentioned hypoglycemia, but to me that connection could not happen since resistant starch is not digestible by the human body (only digested by the bacteria in the gut). Could you explain? I would hate to see people fearful of trying resistant starch if they are worried about hypoglycemia.

In fact resistant starch may be an answer to hypoglycemia: there's a study on raw cornstarch about it that I can't find, but know I've seen somewhere, and if you go to the following thread and in the thread do a search for the word "hypoglycemia" there are other positive comments about resistant starch actually preventing hypoglycemia:
http://freetheanimal.com/2013/04/resistant-assimilation-resistance.html

I totally agree. @South. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. RS is often beneficial for those with hyperglycemia or hypoglycemia.

But, I know that a very few people (like two or three) have reported some anecdotal hypoglycemia from taking way too much RS in one sitting on an empty stomach in the comments on FTA. And a few diabetics have noticed that they needed to reduce their insulin intake because their normal insulin dose was giving them hypoglycemia — but that's really just an insulin dosing issue.

Nobody really knows what the RS mechanism is for lowering/stabilizing/blunting blood glucose, but I know from personal experience that I get a little light headed if I take more than 2 Tbsp of RS in one sitting after a fast (though, unfortunately, I didn't measure my BG when it happened).

Keep in mind that taking RS before bed will usually result in a lower fasting BG reading in the morning, so it must lower blood glucose somehow. But, my wife who has nocturnal hypoglycemia, sleeps much better with RS. So, I do think it's beneficial even for hypoglycemics.

So, to reiterate, I think RS will be very beneficial to anyone with hypoglycemia — but someone with hypoglycemia may want to consider taking it a bit more spread out throughout the day, rather than all at once.

 

[Christopher]

@Gestalt gestalt, if rs increases butyrate, that would lower ammonia.

 

[Gestalt]

@Gestalt gestalt, if rs increases butyrate, that would lower ammonia.

Do you know the precise mechanism of action of how butyrate lowers ammonia?

 

[Christopher]

Do you know the precise mechanism of action of how butyrate lowers ammonia?

No...I just remember reading it, maybe from @dbkita.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-ammonia-arginine-ornithine-citrulline.22337/

someone mentions RS as increasing butyrate on that page.

 

[Lou]

Do you know the precise mechanism of action of how butyrate lowers ammonia?

Detoxification, perhaps, by encouraging friendly bacteria in the gut?

 

[Christopher]

Don't know, but the one day I took butyrate as a supplement, my fog cleared a bit.

 

[Lou]

Don't know, but the one day I took butyrate as a supplement, my fog cleared a bit.

Get tired of the fog clearance, or the butyrate stop working? Just kidding, Christopher, but seriously, did the butyrate only work with initial dose?

 

[Christopher]

Get tired of the fog clearance, or the butyrate stop working? Just kidding, Christopher, but seriously, did the butyrate only work with initial dose?

I read some concerns about its safety, and it seems like it's something we should be making internally and not supplementing directly. I'm going to try adding some RS as well.

 

[Dfox]

Ripley, thanks much for starting this thread: I have studied so many factors related to digestion and slow gut motility and yet did not run into this info until you posted it. I have to say, your post is the best, most efficient summary of all of those links.

Hi Ripley: Great info, thanks. I just wanted to let you know that there will be a symposium this week end from 4 of the top SIBO (gastro) dr's in this growing field. I have been working on my digestion for quite some time and regret that I did not get tested sooner for SIBO or IBS. All of the MD's and NMD"s have called EVERYTHING candida, and that is not actually the whole truth, but rather a part. I had quite a good bout of methane induced gut problems, and did take the antibiotics for it over Thanksgiving. I still am not anywhere out of the woods yet, but the very bad gut malabsorption has stopped and the insulin resistance has improved greatly. My fasting bs in the am was always a little over 100, and it is now usually about 88/89. I'm still a bit concerned about eating, but it is getting better. I am doing the SCD diet right now, and not the FODMAP, but may have to go there too?

I am working with a NMD who works with Dr. Siebecker. Her (Dr. S) site is siboinfo.com; a lot of good info on there. I have had several appts with one of the associates there and I have learned MUCH from them. I do not know if you have already talked about Dr. Siebecker as I have not had time to read all of the posts. (I have a son who will be on American Idol tonight, shhh) lol. Anyhow, if you would like to look at the symposium site and see the dr's who will be speaking it is at sibosymposium.com. I have bought a ticket for the webinar, and hope to post soon on what I find. Great info and thanks for posting again.

Dfox

 

[adreno]

So I just got a bottle of Prescript-Assist and took the first cap. So far I'm noticing a little stomach discomfort and a slight headache. The last time I tried SBOs (Primal Defense) I was doubled over in pain for days from just one tab. So far I'm doing better on the PA.

Regarding RS, I have some gerd, and taking potato starch (1-2 tbs per day) definitely makes that worse. I guess this would indicate I have some SIBO. Also, flatulence is worse with RS. So the question is, should I avoid taking RS (potato starch) so far, or just decrease the dose to say 1-2 ts?

 

[Crux]

Hi @adreno ;

Maybe someone else will know more, but my guess would be to either reduce the PS or skip a day or so, as you think. ( I've read this suggestion to others from Tim Steele (tatertot).)

I'm glad you're not having too much gut trouble with the Prescript Assist. It is really helping with my tolerance of the PS. I did have some Herx symptoms for a few days from it.( headache, mild nausea, mild weakness.) Now, I've increased the Prescript Assist to 3 or so caps. daily for a while. I may also have SIBO. Even my internist brought this up, because of my elevated folate and B12.

Dr. BG, who has a blog, animal pharm.com, has written about treating SIBO with soil based organisms and resistant starch. Tim Steele contributed to it. http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-to-cure-sibo-small-intestinal-bowel_10.html

Most people are having increased flatulence from the PS, but it's the fun kind, not painful. If there is no gas, it could mean low microbial activity. ( history of heavy antibiotic use)

 

[Lou]

[quote="Crux,



I'm glad you're not having too much gut trouble with the Prescript Assist.
quote]






Maybe this has been discussed, just can't remember. It's been related here that potato starch acts like a magnet on probiotics, that they are stuck intact and shuttled as if on a bus for quick transit to colon.

I have some Prescript Assist, too, and just wondering if its enteric coating prevents if from getting on the bus. I suppose its coating still gets it to colon, just slower. Probably no answer to this, but also wondered which, if either, method of transit might be better, or if it even matters. Any comments, ideas?

 

[Crux]

Hi @Lou ;

It looks like Prescript Assist does not use an enteric coating on its capsules. Their claim is that the microbes are strong enough to survive the upper gut, and pass to the colon.
http://www.prescript-assist.com/products/

What's wrong with other probiotic supplements?
Most probiotic supplements on the market today rely on 1 or 2 strains of fragile, lactic-acid based bacteria. Prescript-Assist is different.

Basic Viability vs. Engineered Delivery
Unlike other probiotics, Prescript-Assist has inherent viability. That means the species selected for inclusion are naturally adapted for survival in the human GI tract. Among the 29 beneficial organisms found in Prescript-Assist are a class of bacteria commonly referred to as "spore-formers".

Dr. Mehmet Oz of the well-known Dr. Oz Show has said:

"Spore form probiotics are the Chuck Norris of probiotics: total tough guys."9

While other manufacturers struggle to invent novel manufacturing techniques such as patented nano-encapsulation and hard-shelled enteric-coated capsules in an attempt to essentially "force feed" lactic-acid based organisms into survival, the environmentally based (SBO) species included in Prescript-Assist are selected from the terrestrial microbiome where they have prospered and adapted for millenia to beneficially co-exist with humans.


- See more at: http://www.prescript-assist.com/products/#sthash.Tw31DfjZ.dpuf

 

[Ripley]

Regarding RS, I have some gerd, and taking potato starch (1-2 tbs per day) definitely makes that worse. I guess this would indicate I have some SIBO. Also, flatulence is worse with RS. So the question is, should I avoid taking RS (potato starch) so far, or just decrease the dose to say 1-2 ts?

@adreno did you by chance listen to Episode 211 of The Paleo Solution Podcast with Robb Wolf and Chris Kresser? If not, I highly recommend it. In the episode, Kresser explains that some people with gut problems will experience gut pain by going too fast with RS. If you have gut pain, it means you need to start with just a HALF TEASPOON of PS once or twice per day and work up slowly from there.

 

[adreno]

Yes I listened to it, and no I don't have gut pain. I also read Kressers ebook on Gerd, which explains that prebiotics and Gerd are a bad mix. But perhaps I just need to go slow, as you said. Btw, I am also changing my diet to avoid FODMAPs.

 

[Ripley]

Yes I listened to it, and no I don't have gut pain. I also read Kressers ebook on Gerd, which explains that prebiotics and Gerd are a bad mix. But perhaps I just need to go slow, as you said. Btw, I am also changing my diet to avoid FODMAPs.

For what it's worth, Richard Nikoley (the author of freetheanimal.com) has GERD, and has found improvement by taking RS. Here's his speculative theory and experience:

Dec 19, 2013 at 08:51

I currently take RS 2 tablespoons dissolved in cold water, midmorning and before bed, on an empty stomach. If the daytime ingested probiotics ( kefir, Greek yogurt, sauerkraut) would hitch a ride on the RS, is it better to ingest the RS at the time of the probiotic intake?

Newbie...My “strategy” is both. In fact, I take it with plain water on an empty stomach and sometimes mix it in a bowl of cold beans (two relative extremes). I also like to mix it with a 50/50 plain kefir and raw milk mix (and I love the taste & texture). I stir gently. I’m told the critters attach, get a bus ride. I also do mega-dose now & then, 4-8 mixed in water, totally empty stomach, with the speculation being it may clean out unwelcome in the small intestine. Since it does no harm, why not try. It seems to be having an effect over last couple of weeks, den it a few times. Got the idea here:

http://freetheanimal.com/2013/12/dramatic-resistant-success.html

Paleo largely cured my lifelong GERD and got me off PPIs, but I still get heartburn with alcohol consumption and especially when said alcohol lowers my will and I eat something stupid. But guess what? Less and less since beginning that. And when I do get it, mild. 1/2 tsp of baking soda in water kicks ass right away.[LINK]

Dec 3, 2013 at 10:36 I think that if GERD is caused by SIBO, then PS is going to be a potential fix for both. I think the best way to do this (speculative) but take your PS in just water, and on an empty stomach, like first thing in AM and don’t eat for a couple of hours. Idea being that bacteria in the small intestine glom on to the RS and get carried to the colon. I have been doing this daily for about a week and have noticed a SIGNIFICANT reduction of GERD, even when consuming alcohol in the evening. [LINK]

Dec 30, 2013 at 08:03 My speculation is that RS, over time, can help flush out SIBO. It’s well established that certain gut bugs love to attach to the stuff and they do it quickly, so is it possible that taking RS/PS just with water on an empty stomach has a flushing effect at it passes through the small intestine (SIBO is purported to be a major cause of chronic GERD) by means of bugs attaching to it and being carried off to the colon where they belong?

I too have had much better heartburn control over time.

So, that's the running theory. RS and water may have a SIBO-cleansing effect that may be beneficial to those with GERD over the long term (based on RS's ligand mimicry and Richard's n=1). No, he hasn't completely cured his GERD, but it seems that RS has improved his symptoms "significantly". You can always ask him directly if he has any other suggestions, by leaving a comment on his blog.