The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[Sidereal]

Edited to add: the Wheat Dextrin (Benefiber) and PH Guar Gum still might be worth you trying, Sidereal. I'm not nearly as good at identifying what exactly each fermentable is triggering in me as you are, plus you are definitely up a notch in sensitivity than I am, but I found each had their place. I found the Benefibre easily locally, so hopefully you'll be able to track it down without the hassle on getting it online.

How are you getting on @ariel? I tried some plain ol' wheat bran yesterday with pretty interesting results. Definitely distal action going on with wheat and oat bran (unlike potato starch which I always had the impression had a very proximal action and thus resulted in SIBO exacerbation). Effects reminiscent of psyllium but less bulk-forming and constipating than psyllium so it's good. On the contrary, it increases frequency which in the past has been a good sign for me.

I will try wheat dextrin soon, has been very difficult to get where I am. I was reading this paper and I don't know how this product differs from Benefiber but it seems we're on the right track.

In Vitro Fermentation of NUTRIOSE® FB06, a Wheat Dextrin Soluble Fibre, in a Continuous Culture Human Colonic Model System

NUTRIOSE® (NUTRIOSE® FB06, Roquette, France) is a non-viscous WD with a total fibre content of ~ 85% and a mono- and disaccharide content of ≤ 0.5% [27]. NUTRIOSE® has a structure of linear and branched glucosidic linkages that make it resistant to hydrolysis in the small intestine and consequently available for bacterial fermentation in the human large gut [28]. NUTRIOSE® induces a low glycaemic response and is well tolerated by the human digestive system, even at high doses [29,30]. Emerging evidence indicates that NUTRIOSE®has prebiotic potential, however most of the studies have been done in animal models, which have a different microbiota from that of humans, or have investigated a limited number of bacterial groups in humans. Nevertheless these studies have demonstrated that the intake of NUTRIOSE® may modulate gut microbial ecology, with evidence for increased faecal counts ofBacteroides and Lactobacillus spp., reduced Clostridium perfingens, increased total SCFA production, elevated α- and β- glucosidase activity and decreased faecal pH [29-32]. Furthermore, NUTRIOSE® has been shown to have promising effects on energy metabolism, appetite regulation and weight management [33-36]. In a recent human intervention study by Guerin-Deremaux et al., the daily intake of either 14 g, 18 g, or 24 g of NUTRIOSE®, over a period of nine weeks, was found to increase perceived feelings of satiety and subsequently lead to a reduction in energy intake, bodyweight and percentage body fat in a group of overweight males [34]. Preliminary evidence also suggests that NUTRIOSE® may improve indices of lipid and glucose homeostasis, however additional work is warranted to verify these findings [37].

"structure of linear and branched glucosidic linkages that make it resistant to hydrolysis in the small intestine and consequently available for bacterial fermentation in the human large gut" = good

The provision of WD, at a dose of 14 g/day, resulted in marked increases in total bacterial populations in vessels simulating the transverse and distal colon. This increased proliferation of total bacteria is concurrent with findings from previous studies in rodents and humans [29-32]. To our knowledge, we have demonstrated for the first time that WD significantly increases the proliferation of Gram-positive Clostridium Cluster XIVa bacteria and Roseburia genus, as categorised by increased counts for Clostridium coccoides – Eubacterium rectale andRoseburia - E. rectale groups, respectively. These bacterial groups are major components of the human gut microbiota and have important roles in the fermentation and putrefaction of food-derived substances, resulting in the production of SCFAs and intestinal gases [42]. Furthermore, Clostridium Cluster XIVa and Roseburia genus are key butyrate producers, with ~ 80% of the butyrate-producing isolates originating in human faeces belonging to these groups [43]. Experimental work in rodents suggests that obesity is inversely correlated to numbers ofClostridium Cluster XIVa and Roseburia genus. Interestingly, these studies found that the provision of dietary fibres, chitin–glucan and wheat arabinoxylan, to mice subjected to an obesogenic diet ameliorated the reduction in these two bacterial groups [14,17]. Owing to the findings of the present study, it is feasible that the intake of WD may also have restorative effects on gut microbial populations of Clostridium Cluster XIVa and Roseburia genus in obese and overweight individuals.

I still have not been able to find a good source of chitin-glucan that isn't the dreaded Artinia. NAG from shellfish was good for me so I'd like to try chitin.

 

[whodathunkit]

@jepps, thanks for posting that link. Did not realize that Tim Steele had his own blog!

 

[whodathunkit]

So I'm poking around on Tim Steele's blog, and one of his most recent posts is about doing "mono starch".

Based on the results of Ubiome tests he had done just before and just after a week or so of eating only potatoes (the "potato diet"), he postulates that eating only one type of good starch may actually be more beneficial for the gut than trying to get a hellacious variety (the way a lot of us do here on PR).

Post is here.

Note that he doesn't necessarily advocate only potatoes...the hypothesis is that any single beneficial starch (potatoes, rice, oats, whatever), eaten as the predominant starch in the diet, could be key.

Something like this might be a solution for those of you who find a lot of different kinds of fibers problematic. You can eat what you can tolerate.

Just thinkin' out loud...

 

[Gondwanaland]

Post is here.

Tha latest post in that blog links to a new RS study (March 2015).

 

[whodathunkit]

@Gondwanaland: I said "one of his latest posts" not his latest post. I did not mean it was the one that @jepps linked to.

 

[ariel]

Hi there sidereal!

I've been adding in little bits of oat bran into my steel-cut oats. Like you, I can definitely feel more distal action happening -- weird how you can kind of tell, huh? Was some irritation at first but have kept the dosage pretty low.
Wheat bran might be next on the list too. After all this playing around it seems to be the basics!

Nutriose looks good. Good find! I've only had a quick look at their website, it's shame they don't list the ratio of wheat to corn dextrin. Perhaps the percentages are broken down somewhere else. If it's easily available for you, then worth a try.

Haven't tried artinia. Did it cause major problems for you?


Hi @whodathunkit, I saw that post by Tim. Very interesting. I think the results surprised everyone.
I tried eating potatoes only for about three days or so a few months ago. It was definitely worth doing. Highly recommend it. Provided a kind of re-set. I will probably do it again in a couple of months. Very interesting to see what kinds of cravings came up. I eat quite a bit more sweet stuff in the form of honey and fruit than I thought I did.
Ever since then I pretty much eat potatoes every day. But then again, I ate potatoes regularly prior to that.
There was something about eating ONLY potatoes that switched something.

Re trying out different fibres though, somehow trying a bunch has been really helpful for me. Or at least I'm telling myself it was! I think mostly because when I just took PS and then slowly scaled up it only worked on one set of gut bugs. Being able to tolerate PS had absolutely no effect on being able to tolerate inulin, for example. So it has been totally worth it in terms of cycling through various powders. Will prob settle on one mix once I manage to produce enough butyrate, or whatever.

Hope everyone is well!
Hope everyone in Europe is ok. Gosh the Greek thing and the EU. Don't want to talk politics etc as is so divisive, but just hope ordinary Greeks have access to food and medicines.


Edited to add -- oops I actually have started adding in Wheat bran, not oat bran. got muddled.

 

[jepps]

Hope everyone is well!
Hope everyone in Europe is ok. Gosh the Greek thing and the EU. Don't want to talk politics etc as is so divisive, but just hope ordinary Greeks have access to food and medicines.

I also hope, the ordinay ill Greeks receive enough money for medicinal help.

I take boswellia for inflammation, and always wondered, if it does anything to the gut. This study says, it consists of 30-60% resin, 5-10% oil, and the rest are polysaccharides, something good for our gut.

 

[JPV]

I take boswellia for inflammation, and always wondered, if it does anything to the gut.

No matter what I do I always seem to suffer from a lot of inflammation. I've tried Curcumin but I'm not really sure if it's very effective for me. Have you also tried Curcumin, and if so, how would you compare it to the effects of Boswellia?

 

[jepps]

No matter what I do I always seem to suffer from a lot of inflammation. I've tried Curcumin but I'm not really sure if it's very effective for me. Have you also tried Curcumin, and if so, how would you compare it to the effects of Boswellia?

I find, it works better than curcumin, and with histamine issues curcumin is not always well tolerated.

 

[JPV]

I find, it works better than curcumin, and with histamine issues curcumin is not always well tolerated.

Thanks, I think that explains a lot.

 

[ahmo]

I don't know whether this talk of inflammation is related to gut, I can't see where it began. In any case, I have been using celery extract for generalized inflammation for about 5 years. It works fabulous for me. I also don't tolerate, or am unwilling to try, curcumin again. I thought it was the sulfur, but also histamine...not for me. I've never gone deep enough into celery to know what the extract means, because it's so cheap from NOW, and it works, so I've just stuck with it. Has worked for major arm difficulties. Rarely need it these days, though have used it for low back pain last couple days.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I take boswellia for inflammation, and always wondered, if it does anything to the gut. This study says, it consists of 30-60% resin, 5-10% oil, and the rest are polysaccharides, something good for our gut.

DH and I tried it and it didn't go well...

I find, it works better than curcumin, and with histamine issues curcumin is not always well tolerated.

I can't tolerate the oxalates in it...

 

[Sidereal]

Haven't tried artinia. Did it cause major problems for you?

Yeah. It was one of those things that I only took a few times because it was clearly negative.

Hi @whodathunkit, I saw that post by Tim. Very interesting. I think the results surprised everyone.
I tried eating potatoes only for about three days or so a few months ago. It was definitely worth doing. Highly recommend it. Provided a kind of re-set. I will probably do it again in a couple of months.

I've wanted to do "the potato hack" for a while but haven't quite had the courage to do it because I get quite hypoglycaemic unless I eat protein. I know someone with a non-ME/CFS fatiguing condition who experienced marked benefits from eating only potatoes for a few weeks. As you say, it seems to reset the situation in the gut for the better.

 

[whodathunkit]

I eat quite a bit more sweet stuff in the form of honey and fruit than I thought I did.

ariel, do you mean you craved sweets while you were on only potatoes...?

Also, do you (or anyone else) know why there is no salt allowed during the potato diet?

once I manage to produce enough butyrate

I think c.butyricum really helps with this. I went off all gut things for a few weeks to see if that would have a beneficial effect on my nocturia (it did not), and after a couple weeks I could tell it in the integrity of my skin (I judge by how scaly are the soles of my feet). I added back in CB and my skin improved within days. Everything I've done for my gut seems to be beneficial to my skin, but the CB really seems to have a great effect. I'm assuming because it boosts fatty acid production which trickles down to skin health.

've wanted to do "the potato hack" for a while but haven't quite had the courage to do it because I get quite hypoglycaemic

I'm afraid of it for the opposite reason. But I'll probably give it a go next week.

What does potato starch do to your blood sugar, do you know?

 

[Bdeep86]

Ive been on a teaspoon of RS for about a week now in the mornings. I can't say that i've had any side effects good or bad. Is it to soon to increase? I know this is all very individual I am sort of new to the RS procedures.

 

[futuritycarpaccio]

Ive been taking it since a few days. Started with one teaspoons and ive moved to 2tablespoons +- .. Its been a week, notjing good or bad to say that i would attribute to RS.

Hope to see some changes at 3 weeks,namely better sleep.

Am i supposed to take this only in the morning?

 

[Sushi]

2tablespoons +-

You might want to read back on this thread re: dosing as many of us have found that we did better with a lower dose.

 

[ariel]

I've wanted to do "the potato hack" for a while but haven't quite had the courage to do it because I get quite hypoglycaemic unless I eat protein. I know someone with a non-ME/CFS fatiguing condition who experienced marked benefits from eating only potatoes for a few weeks. As you say, it seems to reset the situation in the gut for the better.

Why don't you just add in a little bit of whatever protein you prefer for a bit? Just see how it plays out. Could do it at one or two meals a day. Gradually ease off. Or keep it going
For the first day or two I was slightly concerned as my appetite was really depressed. I guess it does that set-point thing that Seth Roberts talked about. I just kept my eye on it all and figured I could add in some protein if it got really bad. My appetite did come back full-force though.
As I said I only did it for 3-4 days though and I want to do it again for longer.

There is something about eating that many potatoes for a while that really changes up the digestive system.
Slightly too much information here possibly - but I noticed my stool changed colour and odour. More baby poo smelling. So I guess that is the bifido being fed. Tim's chart make sense.

 

[ariel]

ariel, do you mean you craved sweets while you were on only potatoes...?

Also, do you (or anyone else) know why there is no salt allowed during the potato diet?

Yeah... pesky candida.

The salt thing I'm not sure about why. I did still add in a little bit cause I can't live without it!
It might have something to do with keeping things as bland as possible. Re-setting the tastebuds as well.

 

[whodathunkit]

It might have something to do with keeping things as bland as possible. Re-setting the tastebuds as well.

@ariel, thanks. I did manage to figure that out yesterday after I tagged you. It's a plausible theory and worth giving a try, although I do suspect the potato diet works much more because of its effect on gut flora than on any reset of the "Food Reward System". I'll probably try this next week or week after, and stick to as little salt as I can get by with while not really worrying about it. Like you, I can't live without it, and it's not just about taste.