adreno
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Yes, I went from mild to severe after experimenting with adrenal extract. So I must definitely advice against that.
The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?
- Thread starter Ripley
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It sounds like you're functioning at a fairly high level compared to many here? In that case it's quite possible that microdoses will do nothing.
Rand56
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I took 6 tabs of Miyarisan yesterday, 3 at breakfast, and 3 at dinner. Later in the evening I did feel some discomfort in my lower abdomen. Nothing too extreme and it was tolerable. I'll go up some more today and see what happens.
adreno
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If you're getting symptoms, I would stay at that dose until they go away, before increasing.
Rand56
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Yes you are no doubt right. I could be regretting it later if I bumped it up more right now. I'll stay at 6 daily for now.
Rand56
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I've been trying to recall, because I have had a similar reaction, pain in lower abdomen, from a previous gut related supp I was taking. Can't remember exactly which one now. The only gut related supps/food I've taken is yogurt, LAG, and potato starch. I know it wasn't from the yogurt, so it was either the LAG or going overboard on the PS. Good thing is, I've had no bloat as of yet on the Miyarisan.
Edit: Woops, sorry. Took Candex one time before. Small amount and got very extreme bloating.
Edit: Woops, sorry. Took Candex one time before. Small amount and got very extreme bloating.
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JPV
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I felt similar discomfort the first few days when I tried potato starch.
Rand56
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Are you specifically referring to lower abdomen pain?
JPV
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Yes, slight burning sensation and minor cramps. Feels like a microbial battle may be raging on.
adreno
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I personally wouldn't worry about it.
I, on the other hand, seem to be worrying about everything . . .
Getting worse at the moment and don't want to pile on anything else that's going to screw me up.
I, on the other hand, seem to be worrying about everything . . .
Getting worse at the moment and don't want to pile on anything else that's going to screw me up.
Worse in what way?
JPV
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Has there been much discussion about people following diets based on their direct ancestry? I don't mean something abstract like Paleo, but a diet that's indigenous to your specific ethnic background. There's such a huge variety of food options available these days that we no longer eat what our ancestors did. Certainly people's microbiomes will have different compositions due to indigenous soil composition and various other factors. I would imagine that after several centuries of living in one local, some of this must be coded into our DNA. I can't help but think that this must be a factor in all of this.
Gondwanaland
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Well, that could be an explantion as to why my gut bugs are happier in Europe
Asklipia
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When I brought information on Miyarisan to this thread I think I was the first person to mention it here.
I had mentioned it before on another thread on K2 on Nov 19, 2014.
From my notes I see that we have been taking it since 15 Sept. 2014.
We had been taking 6 a day all along, but since some friends have reported even better results taking 18 a day, we have moved to 12 a day last week, with no bad results, on the contrary, more vit K being produced (softer skin etc).
Good luck to all!
Asklipia
I'm having some pretty severe die-off symptoms in the stomach and small intestine this past week so I actually think this thing could be dealing with SIBO. My SIBO has been awful for years and I also have H. pylori that gives me gastritis every so often so it's not surprising that there should be nasty symptoms. It's too early to say, however, if I'll come out of all this feeling better or worse. If you have severe ME, I would certainly start very low and slow like one tablet a day.
Sorry to hear about how bad your SIBO has been. Is it possible to improve SIBO through probiotics? The theory confuses me - if it's overgrowth of bacteria in the SI, how does it help to bung some more in there?
Have you had treatment for the h. pylori?
How do you know it's die-off? That is, a good thing rather than a bad thing?
When I started taking resistant starch (both times, with a long gap in between), my OI just gradually improved and I wasn't aware of any side-effects. I was taking the highest dose of 4 tbsp/day (apparently, beyond that, it's more than your good bugs can absorb) but I wonder if, with these probiotics, a long-term low dose that doesn't provoke symptoms is better.
I wish I knew!
My ME is severe so thanks for the advice to take just a tablet a day to start with.
Sorry, I'm asking a lot of questions! I've read up on SIBO lately in case that's what I've got but it won't stay in my head.
All good questions, @Sasha, with no clear-cut answers in my book.
Regarding SIBO and probiotics, standard LAB probiotics you buy in a shop will of course tend to make it worse by contributing to the overgrowth. C butyricum isn't just some probiotic, it's a very unique species amongst those available commercially in that it's a butyrate producing anaerobe and a TLR4 antagonist. Butyrate beneficially influences pretty much every key process in your body, directly or indirectly. One would hope that by creating more favourable conditions in the entire GI tract and normalising the autonomic nervous system, SIBO will improve due to improved bacterial ecology and gut motility.
Regarding treatment for H. pylori, I did try the triple therapy a few years ago... for a day. The reaction to antibiotics esp. clarithromycin was severe. As I'm sure you are well aware of the perverse situation where the sicker we get with ME, the LESS we are able to tolerate treatments normal people can take to deal with these issues. Aggressive antibiotic treatments years ago caused my illness in the first place by wiping out large important parts of my microbiome so I'm stuck with my friend H. pylori for now.
Regarding die-off, one can never be quite sure but the chills, tachycardia, lymphatic pain, nausea, GI upset have in the past always occurred with various effective gut interventions.
It's very interesting and unusual that you have been able to tolerate 4 tablespoons of RS with severe ME. Most here get massive reactions from a fraction of that dose. I have heard of two other ME patients with zero reaction to RS. To my mind, lack of any die-off probably indicates it's not working. You can't displace pathogens in the gut without getting some symptoms, that seems impossible.