The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[jepps]

It reminds me again why I find her so irritating. She does have a lot of interesting info on her blog and does read widely but her hypotheses and theories quickly get stated as established fact and it is difficult to tell where one starts and the other finishes.

Yes, I feel the same. She has much information about the most important strands of bacterias, and I have to learn to be able to interprete the stool tests.

Anyhow, as far as I am aware, there are only two PCR-based tests available which give some insight into the species level. One is the Genova test which has a very limited range (listed in full in my post above) and the metagenomics stool analysis (MSA) test from Red Labs in Belgium which I believe looks at up to 100 analytes. I haven't considered the latter test since I thought it unlikely that I could get my sample from the east coast of Australia to Belgium within the 3 day time period specified. Still it looks like an excellent test, albeit expensive.

I considered the MSA, but did it not. I have a friend with heavy gut dysbiosis and allergies, and the test he said, he has no one parasite or candida, according to this test he is healthy. But I can hardly imagine, that there could be guf dysbiosis without any parasite or fungi, I assume, they are not detected in stool, but they are present.
It did nothing for him.
But I consider doing the Genova test. I asked there, I have to indicate a practitioner, and then I can order by myself.
But as far as I read until now, Ubiome has all important strands, that Genova has?

Best wishes for you also, jepps

 

[ariel]

@arielI have better energy, but not very much, I assume 10-20% more energy for physical activities. There are times with low energy, and times with better energy, but in summary it increases.

Thanks Jepps. Yes, I think I'm the same, there hasn't actually been much of an increase in my energy levels. A little bit but not much.
Oh well, I guess it will take a while for that part.

 

[Asklipia]

@ariel and @jepps I have a lot of energy BUT I regularly fall back to a kind of irresistible stupor and tiredness, which I think is directly related to fungi releasing their poison when they are destroyed.
I am pretty sure of this, because I can immediately revert to my normal energetic self, or nearly, by taking a good glass of clean vodka. And sugar or Vitamin C do not really help in those cases.
This for me directly points the finger at methyl alcohol poisoning. Good ethyl being the antidote of this.
I suppose that a long as we are reducing the population of fungi, we have to suffer bouts of low energy/depression. I used to get both, now the depression side has not happened for the last two weeks.
So there IS definitely progress.
Good luck!

 

[jepps]

@ariel and @jepps I have a lot of energy BUT I regularly fall back to a kind of irresistible stupor and tiredness, which I think is directly related to fungi releasing their poison when they are destroyed.

I suppose that a long as we are reducing the population of fungi, we have to suffer bouts of low energy/depression. I used to get both, now the depression side has not happened for the last two weeks.
So there IS definitely progress.
Good luck!

Thank you for posting this, @Asklipia. I am sure, you are, right, because always on weekend, when stool has mold, I have increasing inflammation, and on weekend I have symptoms, that I match the liver (tiredness, burning eyes, joint pain). So the dying fungi releases toxins, and as each stool test shows excreting candida, this happens every day.
Therefore I am suprised, that I get better despite of detoxifying. I always read reports, that detoxifying fungi is very hard for the body.
And when we look at the Ubiometest of alicec, we know, that we have much to do. Important is, not only addressing candida, but to fill the resulting gaps with probiotics, and with increasing gut bacterias feeded well with fibres and RS. Unless fungi will take place in the gut once more.

 

[Sidereal]

Wondering if anyone here has reached significant amounts of daily fibre yet, AND has noticed an increase in their energy levels?

I've had improvement in PEM but not overall energy levels.

 

[ariel]

Sounds like your health issues are slightly different to mine, Asklipia. I still can't do a little bit of exercise without having delayed fatigued and being in bed for days. Having a lot of energy is still quite a long way off for me.
Just had a nip (actually a rather large-ish nip!) of vodka. Feeling warm and toasty at least...!

Sidereal, hmmm... you too...

sheesh... such an ongoing project. I went to a yoga class for the first time in years the other day, as I thought 'why not?!'... BIG mistake!
oh well... back to the fibres and little bits of vodka...


alicec, the banana flour muffins sound nice. Would you mind sharing the recipe. Maybe I can add that in... along with the vodka!

 

[ahmo]

After reading these last couple pages, I read the daily digest for low dose naltrexone forum. Ive seen references there many times to Lufenuron for Candida. It sounds so simple. Anyone know more about it? http://lufenuroncandidacure.owndoc.com/

 

[jepps]

After reading these last couple pages, I read the daily digest for low dose naltrexone forum. Ive seen references there many times to Lufenuron for Candida. It sounds so simple. Anyone know more about it? http://lufenuroncandidacure.owndoc.com/

Thank you, @ahmo, Dr. Myhill recommends it for fungi. But it´s a chemical drug, and we do not know, what it does for the rest of the gut, and Dr. Myhill does not recommend it for long term treatment, but that´s what we need.
Maybe for short term, but I assume, there is always a risk for attacking our gut bacterias.

 

[ariel]

Actually, the bit of vodka really helped. So thanks again Asklipia!
Super interesting

 

[Asklipia]

Sounds like your health issues are slightly different to mine, Asklipia. I still can't do a little bit of exercise without having delayed fatigued and being in bed for days. Having a lot of energy is still quite a long way off for me.
Just had a nip (actually a rather large-ish nip!) of vodka. Feeling warm and toasty at least...!

It takes time, a lot more time than I thought at first. I too couldn't lift a finger without feeling knackered and really sick.
Not true for the moment. I feel that the fungi are here lurking for any opportunity to come back. But as time goes by, I can increase the fibres and the probiotics at a steady pace. I am now nearly every day taking Primal Defense (i think the Saccharomyces boulardii was hard on me, could not take it more than once every 10 days at first without burning eyes, brain fog and all symptoms of methyl poisoning).
We take more probiotics than we could a couple of months ago. More fibres too.
@jepps is right I think, we must not leave ANY space for the baddies and have to establish friendly bacteria in their place inch by inch, never mind if we have to buy them.
Good luck to all!

Asklipia

 

[jepps]

@ariel
This study shows the activation of fungi infections and macrophages:

http://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/abstract/S1931-3128(13)00443-5

Thus, Abx treatment can cause overgrowth of particular fungal species in the gut and promote M2 macrophage activation at distant sites to influence systemic responses including allergic inflammation.

And this study shows, that activated macrophages generate large amounts of ATP:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20339378

We have previously analysed the bioenergetic consequences of activating macrophages with interferon-γ (IFN-γ) and lipopolysaccharide (LPS) and found that there is a nitric oxide (NO)-dependent mitochondrial impairment and stabilization of hypoxia-inducible factor (HIF)-1α, which synergize to activate glycolysis and generate large quantities of ATP
Our results indicate that during inflammatory (and macrophage) activation 'glycolytically competent cells' such as MΦ use significant amounts of the glycolytically generated ATP to maintain ΔΨ(m) and thereby prevent apoptosis.

There are also other medicaments or treatments besides ABx, which activate fungi infection.
We must wait, until fungi infection is treated, to have our ATP available (and buying some vodka)

 

[jepps]

We take more probiotics than we could a couple of months ago. More fibres too.
@jepps is right I think, we must not leave ANY space for the baddies and have to establish friendly bacteria in their place inch by inch, never mind if we have to buy them.
Good luck to all!

Asklipia

Asklipia, what´s with fermenting probiotics, kefir and and yoghurt with pickl-it? I bought someone, and will try it, they are fermented anaerob, and therefore have no histamine. And cost no dollars and euros.
Anaerobic fermented vegetables produce bifidobacteria, that expel candida. Normally aerobic ferments only produce lactos.

 

[Asklipia]

@jepps at the moment a lot is happening in my life, as though everything that we missed because we sere sick is all happening at once! A lot of changes and there is no time to grow things, there are other priorities.
BUT we did grow kefir most of the time for the recent years, and something fungus-like kills it regularly. We have tried several types of kefir, from Don, from local people selling the grains etc, at every time this happened, a kind of fungus took over.
Which makes me wonder what is this special fungus that is stronger than kefir? Is it in the environment or is it something we carry in our body? Frightening.
We do yoghurt too. At the moment we are cultivating very easily the Bifidobacterium longum taken from Urisense and the Lactobacillus casei we find in Yakult. We take swigs of this, as well as the Japanese Clostridium butyricum (Miyarisan-6 per day), Primal Defense (1 every other day), and Vivomixx (VSL3 under another name).
Also some special Vietnamese rotten fish sauce, of a very traditional brand that has zero MSG inside (tested by my pendulum). On cold noodles (Korean sweet potato, Japanese Shirataki, Chinese mungbean) with raw garlic and small chillies

 

[South]

Anaerobic fermented vegetables produce bifidobacteria

@jepps For those folks who are sensitive to too many lactobacilli, be aware that anaerobic fermentation can produce lactobacilli also, there isn't a guarantee of it just producing bifidos (if made at home).

I think I've even seen in the ingredient list of certain store-bought live culture pickled vegetables, the word "lactibacillus". Here's a wikipedia page on lactobacilli, in which anaerobic is mentioned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus

There may be some company making special pickled vegetables that do not have any lactobacilli? I'm not sure there. But if people are making the cultured veggies at home, it is possible some of the results will be lactobacilli.

 

[jepps]

@jepps at the moment a lot is happening in my life, as though everything that we missed because we sere sick is all happening at once! A lot of changes and there is no time to grow things, there are other priorities.

I am happy to hear this!

@jepps
Also some special Vietnamese rotten fish sauce, of a very traditional brand that has zero MSG inside (tested by my pendulum). On cold noodles (Korean sweet potato, Japanese Shirataki, Chinese mungbean) with raw garlic and small chillies

I eat each day the same: vegetables, red kuri squash, RS-rice, chicken stock, honey, coconut oil+coconut puree+goji berries, fish or chicken. Only vegetables varies.

To culture bifidos sounds interesting: do you have a prescription?

Have a nice evening, @Asklipia

jepps

 

[alicec]

alicec, the banana flour muffins sound nice. Would you mind sharing the recipe. Maybe I can add that in... along with the vodka![/QUOTE]

4-6 very ripe bananas
1 cup frozen blueberries thawed and drained - optional
6 eggs
1 tsp vanilla essence
2-3 tsp apple cider vinegar
1/4-1/2 cup extra virgin coconut oil (quantity depends a bit on the quality of the flour - could substitute olive or macadamia oil or melted butter)
1 tsp sea salt
1 cup green banana flour
3/4 cup coconut flour
2 tsp baking soda

Mash bananas and beat in liquid ingredients, or puree together in blender or with wand.
Put dry ingredients into a sifter and add to wet mix in several lots, mixing well in between. Again depending on the flours, you might need to add another tbsp. or so of either type if mix is too liquid.
Fill large muffin cups and bake at 180degC for 30 min.
Makes 12 (they freeze well).
I don't have a sweet tooth so add no sweetener. You could add 1/4 cup or more of honey.

 

[alicec]

I've had improvement in PEM but not overall energy levels.

Same for me though it's early days in my journey.

 

[alicec]

But I consider doing the Genova test. I asked there, I have to indicate a practitioner, and then I can order by myself.
But as far as I read until now, Ubiome has all important strands, that Genova has?

uBiome tries to measure all bacterial DNA, so even in my depleted gut they came up with 100 genera (more than half at almost negligible levels).

Genova specifically targets the PCR and measures 23 analytes. I tried to work out why they chose those 23 - some are obvious, but some are inexplicable - for example the genus Odoribacter. There are a handful of publications listed in PubMed, all on taxonomy. Absolutely nothing is known about function - why did they bother to measure it?

12 of the 23 are species so are not measured by uBiome. One of these is an archaeon rather than a bacterium (uBiome measures only bacteria).

I decided to get the Genova test because I hadn't had a stool test for several years and thought the CDSA part of the test might be useful, plus I was interested to see what the PCR addition could tell me.

I did get an update on things like pancreatic elastase and SCFA production and found the PCR part somewhat enlightening, but I wouldn't bother to do the test again. The conventional culture of bacteria suffers from the same problem as all CSDA, it targets aerotolerant organisms, they have reverted to old-fashioned parasite techniques which miss many organisms and they did not culture any fungus from me.

You already do stool tests and have uBiome underway so the only really unique info you would get from Genova is the 12 species from the PCR. This could be useful but is it worth the cost of the whole test which is considerable?

Best wishes,
Alice

 

[alicec]

@ariel and @jepps I have a lot of energy BUT I regularly fall back to a kind of irresistible stupor and tiredness, which I think is directly related to fungi releasing their poison when they are destroyed.
I am pretty sure of this, because I can immediately revert to my normal energetic self, or nearly, by taking a good glass of clean vodka. And sugar or Vitamin C do not really help in those cases.
This for me directly points the finger at methyl alcohol poisoning. Good ethyl being the antidote of this.
I suppose that a long as we are reducing the population of fungi, we have to suffer bouts of low energy/depression. I used to get both, now the depression side has not happened for the last two weeks.
So there IS definitely progress.
Good luck!

Wow that happens to me. I'm going to buy some vodka!

 

[melamine]

. I've seen references there many times to Lufenuron for Candida. It sounds so simple. Anyone know more about it? http://lufenuroncandidacure.owndoc.com/

@ahmo - I've used Lufenuuron and plan on using it again. If you scroll down on this page there is some information about it under "Chitin Inhibitors."
http://www.gestaltreality.com/2013/09/16/how-to-eliminate-candida-biofilms/

I used it by itself and was not aware of the recommendations on there.