The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[jepps]

Anything else from Dr. Ayers:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.co.at/search?q=repair+gut+flora

Sources of Bacteria to Repair Damaged Gut Flora

• We must eat new bacteria in order to replace bacterial species lost by antibiotics or unhealthy diets.
• Probiotics -- bacteria that aide gut function, commercially from dairy fermentation
• Fresh vegetables -- bacteria are on the surfaces of plants unless the vegetables are cleaned or cooked
• Fermented foods -- Bacterial growth leading to acid or alcohol production has beed used in the preparation and storage of many foods and provides a rich bacterial resource.
• Environment -- Bacteria are transferred to our hands and face from other people, pets and surfaces, unless hands and the body are continually washed. Sanitizers and frequent washing of hands and surfaces eliminate acquisition of environmental bacteria to repair damaged gut flora. Social isolation and hygiene block repair of gut flora.
• Replacement -- experimental replacement of damaged with healthy gut flora (fecal transplant) has been very effective in curing many diseases without significant risks, but is restricted by the medical industry.

 

[jepps]

I often asked myself, what happens with the RS in cooked potatoe starch:

http://chriskresser.com/how-resistant-starch-will-help-to-make-you-healthier-and-thinner

RS Type 2: Starch with a high amylose content, which is indigestible in the raw state. This is found in potatoes, green (unripe) bananas, and plantains. Cooking these foods causes changes in the starch making it digestible to us, and removing the resistant starch.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/resistant-starch-your-questions-answered/#axzz3Qxc3AxYC

Any idea if heating the potato starch (like using it as a thickening agent in soups/stews) negates its RS function?

Yes, the RS will be completely negated. Sorry. It does make a goodthickener, though.

So that pizza crust recipe has mostly tapioca starch/flour (same) in it. (Also, not Potato Starch–potato flour) If I make the crusts and freeze them and then reheat and eat, would the RS still be usable? Same as the potatoes and rice I would think. So perhaps that is a go on the RS.

I don’t think it works like that. For retrograde RS to form, it has to be in its whole form – potatoes, not potato starch; cassava, not tapioca starch; rice, not rice flour.

 

[Sidereal]

Obesity another infectious disease of the microbiome?

http://ofid.oxfordjournals.org/content/2/1/ofv004.full

Fecal microbiota transplantation (FMT) is a promising treatment for recurrent Clostridium difficile infection. We report a case of a woman successfully treated with FMT who developed new-onset obesity after receiving stool from a healthy but overweight donor. This case may stimulate further studies on the mechanisms of the nutritional-neural-microbiota axis and reports of outcomes in patients who have used nonideal donors for FMT.

The patient presented again 16 months after FMT, and reported an unintentional weight gain of 34 pounds. She weighed 170 pounds and had become obese (BMI of 33). She had not lost any weight over the months she was being treated for CDI. She had been unable to lose weight despite a medically supervised liquid protein diet and exercise program. Her serum cortisol and thyroid panel were normal. She has continued to gain weight despite efforts to diet and exercise, and at 36 months post-FMT her weight was 177 pounds (BMI of 34.5). She has also developed constipation and unexplained dyspeptic symptoms.

 

[jepps]

Dr. Ayers talk about, why resistent starch is so terrific for the gut flora:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.co.at/search?q=resistant+starch

The bacteria that digest RS, for example, are Clostridia (see EM right, note bacterium dissolving its way into the grain of RS), the type of gut flora that also stimulates Tregs and prevents autoimmunity. Thus, the beneficial impact of dietary RS results from feeding gut flora. Most people already support gut flora that can utilize RS, so most people benefit from RS in their diet. Some people have severely damaged gut flora, dysbiosis and constipation, and they may need to eat live, fermented foods (not just dairy probiotics) to recruit enough new bacteria to benefit from RS. Other healthy people may already have healthy gut flora that can exploit all of the soluble fiber in a compatible healthy diet, and need no further enhancement of their health by RS. Health always requires gut flora complementary to diet and each change in diet requires accommodation by corresponding changes in gut flora. Some changes in diet may require new species of gut bacteria.

 

[Sidereal]

Dr. Ayers talk about, why resistent starch is so terrific for the gut flora:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.co.at/search?q=resistant starch

The bacteria that digest RS, for example, are Clostridia (see EM right, note bacterium dissolving its way into the grain of RS), the type of gut flora that also stimulates Tregs and prevents autoimmunity.

That may not necessarily be a good thing for us given that elevated Tregs have been found in several studies.

Increased Tregs is emerging as an important marker of CFS/ME. To date recent studies have indicated abnormal elevations of Tregs in CFS/ ME patients in comparison to healthy controls [16,29]. Most of these Tregs expressed the transcription factor Foxp3. This Treg dysfunction may be an added factor that limits the magnitude of NK activity further weakening the already diminished cytotoxic activity in CFS/ME. The abnormal levels of Tregs did not differ between the two cases of CFS/ ME. Interestingly, in the 1994 CDC cohort increased levels of Tregs occurred in conjunction with an overwhelmingly decrease in CD39+. CD39 is known to convert extracellular ATP into AMP and its decrease may cause exacerbations in pro-inflammatory immune responses [30] and consequently T cell responses [31]. It is not known whether these effects occur in CFS/ME patients.

Quoted from: Immune Abnormalities in Patients Meeting New Diagnostic Criteria for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis

 

[jepps]

This study says the same, but this concerns all fibers, not only RS:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/141/7/1318.full

Although there was no direct correlation between improved lesions due to dietary fiber and inflammatory markers, clinically effective fibers induced immunoregulation, as exemplified by upregulated SOCS3 by SCF, upregulated PPARγ by SCF and RS-75, increased Treg by RS-75 and inulin, and suppressed PP-derived IFNγ by SCF, RS-75, and inulin.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Dr. Ayers talk about, why resistent starch is so terrific for the gut flora:

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.co.at/search?q=resistant starch

The bacteria that digest RS, for example, are Clostridia (see EM right, note bacterium dissolving its way into the grain of RS), the type of gut flora that also stimulates Tregs and prevents autoimmunity.

That is my impression when I take S. boulardii: since it fights Clostridia strains, it seems that I miss Clostridia since boulardii increases my constipation if I take it more than once in a month.

I have been trying to find my missing gut link for several years now. When I am at home I am always constipated, when I am in Germany or Italy I am never constipated (not a single day).

At first I thought it could be too much aluminum in the soil where I live, and the magnesium in the European soil was responsible for healthy BMs. But I got no help in that front from magnesium supplementation.

Then I thought my gut flora missed the high silicon water I had access to when in Europe. Silicon supplementation helps me immensely, but apparently does nothing for my gut flora.

Now I believe the missing link is the dairy from the Alps, but I am not sure how I can test that.

I have indefinetly postponed my RS experiences due to increased inflammation. But I do eat cooked and cooled rice and potatoes almost daily, and have done so my whole life (except when living in Europe).

 

[adreno]

Any experiences with AOR Probiotic-3? I react negatively to any probiotics with lactobacilli (feels like lactic acidosis when I take them), and although the AOR doesn't contain lactobacilli, the bacteria are lactic acid producing.

 

[whodathunkit]

@adreno, I really like AOR-3. I've been megadosing (3 caps per day) with it for a couple of weeks now. It seems to help me with energy and mood. I will taper off soon to 1/day maintenance, but after starting fairly aggressively with RS and prebiotic fibers for about a month ago, as well as SBO's and other high-quality probiotics, I realize now my gut is/was a swampy-freaking-mess. I was diagnosed with leaky gut several years ago by my MD, but I think it was worse than she thought. The slow regimen she had me on back then would have taken years to get me to the point I am now after just one month doing what I've learned here at PR (if her regimen got me there at all, since it didn't contain the variety of stuff I've been using). I'll keep megadosing for at least another few weeks because I seem to be making great progress now and don't want to lose momentum. Plus, I have several more SBO probiotics on the way so will start with those as soon as they arrive.

AOR-3 and Prescript Assist did make me quite speedy when I first started taking them,and I did have to go off them for a couple days at a time for the first couple of weeks. Also, I'm still not inclined to take them after about 1p. Would the speediness be due to lactic acid? I don't know much of the geek side of a lot of this and go mostly on how stuff makes me feel.

Last couple weeks I've also had some headaches and other stuff going on that I've just bulled through. I've kind of applied the @Freddd methylfolate tactic with this gut protocol and it seems to have worked for me. That is, I increased RS, other prebiotics, and the probiotics even in the face of some negative symptoms. Last couple days of this have been really good, although I am cutting the potato starch way back and emphasizing other prebiotics more. Eventually I'd like to get most of my prebiotic fiber from my food. But I have a gut feeling (terrible pun intended) that I'm not in good enough shape for that yet. I still need more "compost" in there.

Not crazy right now about the Primal Defense probiotic recommended by FTA's Richard Nikoley. I've been having some bad brain fog and read something a couple days ago from someone here that they thought the Primal Defense was behind brain fog since they felt better on the days they didn't take it. So I haven't taken it for a couple of days and today feel much better. I'll try adding it in in another month or so since I have a big bottle, but it seems that one was not a success in my "power through" experiment. Can lactic acid cause brain fog?

For whatever that's worth.

 

[Sidereal]

Primal Defense Ultra is loaded with lactobacilli, no good for me and no doubt many others with ME/CFS, errr, SEID due to the lactate problem.

@adreno, regarding SBOs, I've had good results with Prescript Assist for constipation. I didn't notice any systemic improvements from it, though. I've had bad experiences with AOR3 which caused a tooth infection and leg rash. This product contains Streptococcus faecalis (aka Enterococcus faecalis) which is normally a commensal but in immunocompromised folks like us it can cause trouble. It's commonly found in root canal teeth for instance. I have a long history of strep problems, though, so my experience may not at all be applicable to your situation.

 

[adreno]

I've had bad experiences with AOR3 which caused a tooth infection and leg rash.

Oh darn. Prescript Assist gave me sinusitis. What a miserable bunch we are

 

[Seven7]

This thread is about unmanageable by now,. I wanted to start on this but this is way too much posts by now. Would be nice to do a sumary protocol (like we have for the b12 one) so we can quickly refer back to and start without having to read the 114 pages worth.

 

[ahmo]

@lnester7

 

[adreno]

This thread is about unmanageable by now,. I wanted to start on this but this is way too much posts by now. Would be nice to do a sumary protocol (like we have for the b12 one) so we can quickly refer back to and start without having to read the 114 pages worth.

Actually the "b12 protocol" is just one man's opinion, so it's easy to sum up. I think the problem with this thread is that there is no consensus on a working, effective "protocol". It's all trial and error at this point. The only summary I can give is: eat more fibers!

 

[jepps]

I have been trying to find my missing gut link for several years now. When I am at home I am always constipated, when I am in Germany or Italy I am never constipated (not a single day).

Gondwanaland, maybe you ate much kraut and radish in Germany? Could it be that? It´s very common here.

 

[whodathunkit]

@Inester7: You might go over to freetheanimal.com and read the posts there to get a handle on a lot of the info in this thread. That guy Richard Nikoley is more or less the one who "started" all this, since I think Ripley (the OP of this thread) brought the RS thing from over there.

I found reading Free The Animal very helpful. Just search "resistant starch" in the search box on the homepage of the blog. I started from the back of the search results (the first post about RS is on the last page of search results, not the first page) and worked my way up for about five pages. Then I moved forward to present time and started reading backwards for more up-to-date info. The older posts give you some background but then you start wanting to find out what people are doing *now*, since the first post was a couple/few years ago and people have obviously moved on from the recommendations since then.

Be aware that if you read that blog the guy can be a bit abrasive and has a rather profane vocabulary at times. LOL If you're offended by that (I'm not) then he might give you pause. Plus he's got a running feud going with another gut/probiotic blogger that brings out some of the profanity and not the best in him. But IMO the info is worth it.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Gondwanaland, maybe you ate much kraut and radish in Germany? Could it be that? It´s very common here.

Not at all, just buckets and buckets of Bavarian yogurt and milk

Well perhaps the rye and wheat I ate there also helped, but I am sure I was getting increased inflammation from those.

Last time I have been there it was before going GF, and I ate pretty much the same I used to eat at home, except for cooked and cooled potatoes and rice - müsli, fruit, omeletts, sandwiches, pasta, dairy, mushrooms, salmon, plus extra Weizenbier and Wurst, blood orange juice yum!

 

[whodathunkit]

I just wanted to chime in that I am only on p. 25 of this thread...going VERY slowly as time allows.

BUT...it it is well worth the read. Chock full of good info, product recommendations, etc. I'm learning something on almost every page. But, as adreno noted, the info is not easily summarized. So, @Inester7, @ahmo, @Gondwanaland, et al., you might consider persevering.

For myself, I wish I'd been ready for this last year when the chatter started. But I was knee-deep in B12 and methylfolate and didn't want to complicate things any more than they were already complicated. Just wish I'd gotten here a year earlier.

So many health innovations here at PR , so little time...

 

[Sidereal]

Thought people here may find this blog post about a fecal transplant interesting:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/my-microbiome-and-me.1712/

At Karolinska hospital in Sweden they have for more than twenty years experimented with a bacterial culture from a healthy woman. Seven years ago I received an implant of this for the first time. I became very energetic and my skin was soo smooth. Unfortunately I followed the doctors advice and ate whatever, then I had swine flu and went through some stress. After the swine flu I became worse.

This year I had an implant again. The doctors have changed their advice and now say "eat a lot of cabbage". I became more energetic; approximately doubled my level of activity, but since it was so low to start with it means I am still pretty ill. The doctor said he had another ME-patient, and for her the only difference was her bowels.

 

[adreno]

Actually, @jepps posted an excellent list of fiber types and recommended dosages a little while back. Perhaps he will be kind enough to post it again? I think it might serve as a summary (of what to strive for).