The Electrical Apocalypse: Can we avoid it?

[Helen]

@Hip

Thanks for your kind words in the earlier post.I Interesting article and study. I just want to comment shortly on MCS , not to hi-jack the thread of @Womble again. I am supporting Rich Van Konynenburgs hypothesis about ME/CFS as I haven´t found anything opposing it during the last three years. Rich told that the olfactory bulb in a healthy person is the most glutathione rich tissue in the body. With an impaired methylation, that all but a few here who have presented their gene tests seem to be predisposed to, the glutathione level is low and that might have an impact on MCS he proposed. Then there seem to be specific gene defects connected to MCF in the livers Phase I and Phase II detoxification. At least Genovation in their sample for DetoxiGenomics http://www.gdx.net/core/sample-reports/Detoxi-Genomics-Sample-Report.pdf comments on page two beside Acethylation about a connection concerning fumes and tobacco smoke. Then the other SNP´s in Phase II might be involved too.

The best treatment should theoretically be to try decrease ones toxic load and to try a methylation protocol as the methylation might be impaired due to genetics. At least this has worked for me and others I have been in contact with.

 

[Helen]

I take the reverse view: you need to question things very thoroughly if you are going to try to get the right diagnosis.

For example, there are likely some people on this forum who believe they have ME/CFS, but in fact they have Lyme disease. Now, by thorough questioning, preferably by a medical professional — and my means of the right tests — it may be determined that they do not have ME/CFS, and in fact have Lyme.

I have questioned myself many times as to whether I might not have ME/CFS, but might have some very similar condition. There is nothing wrong with questioning a diagnosis.

Misdiagnosis is very, very common in the medical world, even with experienced medical professional. Therefore, anyone who thinks they have electrosensitivity may well have misdiagnosed themselves. And certainly there currently is scant scientific evidence for electrosensitivity causing the symptoms that patients think they cause.

It is well known that electrosensitivity is taken very seriously in Sweden, and I understand that in Swedish schools, even if just one child says they are electrosensitive, then the electromagnetic environment of the entire is school is made EMF free just to accommodate that one child. However, that is itself does not offer any scientific proof of electrosensitivity. It does show that Sweden is a nation that is very concerned with the welfare of its citizens, and it shows that the authorities in Sweden take the safest approach, and err on the side of caution. All of which is very commendable.

I myself err on the side of caution: I don't use WiFi in my home, and I have one of these special low output cordless DECT phones that only transmit when in use (most cordless DECT phones transmit even when not in use).

Be sure I agree to the importance of questioning diagnosis. I was in research and health care before I got sick.

There might well be people that misdiagnose themselves being ES, but I think they are very few. I can tell I, and the doctors and others with ES, have all witnessed that we got almost shocked when we became aware of being ES after testing and testing and testing. .. Therefore I have the standpoint that I trust what people tell about being ES, not that they have to prove it to me.

About Swedish schools and ES it is not working like that. Maybe foreign media likes to present it like this.

I do support not using WI FI or other wireless devices. Also the DECT phone that is "active" only during telephone calls is the best if not an old phone with a cord is possible to use. The DECT is anyway as bad as a cell phone.

 

[Hip]

Well I think one thing we can all agree on is that we all want remedies for our symptoms. We are all searching for ways to improve our symptoms and health.

I would suggest to you, @Helen, and to @Womble, and anyone with similar symptoms, to explore brain inflammation as a possible cause of many symptoms.

I will tell you why: a few years ago, I suffered from constant severe anxiety disorder, which was hellish. Anxiety disorder I suspect is probably underpinned by hypersensitivity of the amygdala (a part of the brain that controls fear and anxiety), and so in certain respects, anxiety disorder may be analogous to multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS), the latter theorized to be caused by hypersensitivity of the olfactory bulb.

I spent many years in the hell of anxiety disorder, but eventually I discovered that anti-inflammatory supplements which target brain inflammation worked wonders for treating my anxiety, and in fact by taking these anti-brain inflammation supplements, I pretty much eliminated my anxiety disorder. This is truly remarkable, because I had severe anxiety, so it shows that anti-brain inflammation supplements are very potent. I believe they get to the root of the problem, which is the inflammation within the brain itself.

Anyway, since MCS is probably also driven by brain inflammation, these anti-brain inflammation supplements that worked so well for me may also be very effective for those with MCS. It is definitely worth trying.

If you want to know which anti-brain inflammation supplements I used, see the thread I started here:

Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

I would recommend trying the supplement N-acetyl-glucosamine first and foremost, because this one seems to work almost miraculously well for many people with anxiety (as the feedback on that thread testifies).

Womble said in his original post:

So I have come to the conclusion that as avoidance becomes more and more difficult, we have only 3 LINES OF DEFENSE:

• Blocking the RF Radiation somehow
• Improving our health so we are not affected at all by EMF
  
• Finding some safe housing or a place to go in emergencies

The means to block RF radiation has already been fully discussed in this thread. The second of Woble's objectives is improving health so that chemical/electrical sensitivity is reduced/eliminated, and I think that the anti-brain inflammation approach may work very well for this. So my suggestion would be to try N-acetyl-glucosamine, and some other anti-brain inflammation supplements.

 

[Womble]

Then, if you find your EMF-free room does not in fact help reduce the severe crises in your ME/CFS symptoms which you believe are triggered by EMF, it would demonstrate that you are not really electrosensitive after all (but it would nevertheless leave you out of pocket).

I have already established beyond any reasonable doubt that I am EMF sensitive, with hundreds of exposures and severe reactions that are physically life threatening and not possibly psychological.

Therefore, if the EMF-free room didn't work, it would probably prove a fault with the blocking mechanism, rather then some erroneous conclusion that I am not effected by cell phones etc...

My concern is spending $500 on a Faraday Cage, only for it be ineffective in blocking the type of RF signals that are making me ill.

 

[Womble]

Well I think one thing we can all agree on is that we all want remedies for our symptoms. We are all searching for ways to improve our symptoms and health.

I would suggest to you, @Helen, and to @Womble, and anyone with similar symptoms, to explore brain inflammation as a possible cause of many symptoms.

If you want to know which anti-brain inflammation supplements I used, see the thread I started here:

Completely eliminated my severe anxiety symptoms with three supplements!

I would recommend trying the supplement N-acetyl-glucosamine first and foremost, because this one seems to work almost miraculously well for many people with anxiety (as the feedback on that thread testifies).

There is no doubt that there is some severe inflammation that happens neurologically, causing tremors, pain, brain fog, fatigue, and all sorts of problems that can be traced to the brain and nervous system.

What you call brain inflammation probably needs a more specific scientific term and cause-effect mechanism, wouldn't you agree?

Until we know exactly what causes this inflammation, its just a guessing game. Some think it is nitric oxide levels in the brain, others are saying the myelin sheeth in the brain is depleted, and all sorts of recent theories have been posted about a damaged nerve that controls the Autonomic Nervous System.

Brain inflammation is too general.

Thanks for suggesting the N-acetyl-glucosamine, its another thing to try

 

[Esther12]

I have already established beyond any reasonable doubt that I am EMF sensitive, with hundreds of exposures and severe reactions that are physically life threatening and not possibly psychological.

Therefore, if the EMF-free room didn't work, it would probably prove a fault with the blocking mechanism, rather then some erroneous conclusion that I am not effected by cell phones etc...

My concern is spending $500 on a Faraday Cage, only for it be ineffective in blocking the type of RF signals that are making me ill.

Being somewhat cautious here, as I know this could be taken the wrong way, but how are you so certain that you are EMF sensitive? This is not something I know anything about, but if it really was the case that you consistently felt worse following short term exposure to particular EMFs, then that should be of interest to researchers. If you do not consistently feel worse following short term exposure to particular EMFs, then I do not see how you can be sure that EMFs are the cause of your health problems.

 

[Hip]

What you call brain inflammation probably needs a more specific scientific term and cause-effect mechanism, wouldn't you agree?

Brain inflammation is not my term, but a widely used scientific term, as is its synonym neuroinflammation.

If you want to get more specific, then you can focus on the particular mechanisms that are involved in the brain inflammation, such as the activation of microglia, or the release of specific inflammatory cytokines such as IL-1beta, TNF-alpha and IL-6.

There are certainly several factors that can switch on brain inflammation, including infection within the brain itself, or infection in the gut, which can remotely trigger brain inflammation by various gut-to-brain mechanisms.

Often you cannot inhibit the infectious causes of inflammation all that well, but you can take anti-inflammatories of various sorts to limit the severity of inflammation. Many people take aspirin (a COX-1 inhibitor) when they catch a cold, so it is not unusual to take anti-inflammatories when there is an infection. But for brain inflammation, COX-2 inhibitors and NF-kappa-B inhibitors are more appropriate.

 

[golden]

http://www.lessemf.com/faq-shie.html#Lead-Copper

I thought aluminium foil was a good idea but something seemed a bit 'off' about it (aside from the stigma - which i can cope with if it saves me lots of money).

I found a small explanation on why foil is not a good choice but until i get some brain clarity, at a research pause. Its complicated.

My biggest concern about shielding a room i/ body / head / bed is that it could make matters considerably worse via reflection.

Even if the shielding reduces the amount let in the room - it can then considerably increase with all the reflection.

Also , I am reading it is vital to get the special paint grounded! Looking into this.

Best ,
Golden

 

[Womble]

Being somewhat cautious here, as I know this could be taken the wrong way, but how are you so certain that you are EMF sensitive? This is not something I know anything about, but if it really was the case that you consistently felt worse following short term exposure to particular EMFs, then that should be of interest to researchers. If you do not consistently feel worse following short term exposure to particular EMFs, then I do not see how you can be sure that EMFs are the cause of your health problems.

I've already addressed this issue in the thread

(I do feel severely and consistently worse with long term exposure to EMF devices)

 

[Womble]

Okay, the best suggestion I've had so far is about the Faraday Cages around my bed.

A few questions about that:

1. Do you think I should buy a already made Faraday Cage or just build my own?

2. Would a Faraday Cage theoretically block a strong signal from a G4 cell phone, or other kinds of strong RF signals from portable devices?

3. What would be the most cost effective way to go, in case this doesn't work. I'd hate to lose $500-1000 dollars here for nothing.

4. Are these devices portable, meaning I could easily move it to different rooms of the house?

5. Has anyone on this forum had major success with this as a blocking EMF mechanism, or would you recommend other blocking methods instead? (the clothing seems a long shot)
Thanks,
Womble

 

[Womble]

Brain inflammation is not my term, but a widely used scientific term, as is its synonym neuroinflammation.

If you want to get more specific, then you can focus on the particular mechanisms that are involved in the brain inflammation, such as the activation of microglia, or the release of specific inflammatory cytokines such as IL-1beta, TNF-alpha and IL-6.

There are certainly several factors that can switch on brain inflammation, including infection within the brain itself, or infection in the gut, which can remotely trigger brain inflammation by various gut-to-brain mechanisms.

Often you cannot inhibit the infectious causes of inflammation all that well, but you can take anti-inflammatories of various sorts to limit the severity of inflammation. Many people take aspirin (a COX-1 inhibitor) when they catch a cold, so it is not unusual to take anti-inflammatories when there is an infection. But for brain inflammation, COX-2 inhibitors and NF-kappa-B inhibitors are more appropriate.

I've tried taking Advil during a severe attack. It often worsens the nervous system symptoms and caused severe pain as a long-term reaction to the drug, but taking it sparingly does occasionally work to reduce pain and inflammation.

 

[Helen]

@Womble Some get relieve from exposure by histidine.

 

[Hip]

I've tried taking Advil during a severe attack. It often worsens the nervous system symptoms and caused severe pain as a long-term reaction to the drug, but taking it sparingly does occasionally work to reduce pain and inflammation.

Ibuprofen is both COX-1 and COX-2 inhibitor. It would be better to take a medication that was just a COX-2 inhibitor. It is only the COX-2 inhibition that you want. Surprisingly, propolis (dose 4000 mg) is a reasonably potent COX-2 inhibitor. Curcumin 1000 mg is also good (and this inhibits NF-kappa-B too).

But in my experience, inflammation in the body and brain is best tackled in a "holistic" fashion, in the sense that you need to do multiple things to lower overall levels of inflammation. I generally take 5 to 10 supplements a day (most of the from the thread I cited earlier), in order to keep inflammation in check, and it does make a huge difference for me (it eliminates by severe anxiety symptoms).

 

[biophile]

Do people really need to be shielded from weak magnetic fields too? Is "geomagnetic stress" really a problem?

Shielding from magnetic fields requires a different approach than for electromagnetic fields. That is one reason why I said earlier that a broad spectrum shield will be complicated and expensive. The required metals with high magnetic permeability, for shielding from lower frequency magnetic fields, are going to be much more expensive than aluminium foil.

Magnetic shielding does not reflect magnetic fields per se but redirects or allows an alternative path around the shielded space. But saturation can become an issue, so thickness is more important here, so you may not get away with paint or foil. Wikipedia mentions using multiple spaced layers to overcome this issue. Perhaps the magnetic fields in the ordinary household are weak anyway so there is no need for uber shielding?

Caledonia mentioned earlier using copper cages for guitar circuits. Copper, not cheap either, is supposed to be good for electromagnetic shielding, particularly for radio frequencies. I also tend to think that if (carefully grounded) copper is good enough for shielding the inputs of high gain audio amplifiers, then it should be good enough for shielding people. Wikipedia however states that copper is not good at shielding low frequency EMI such as mains power.

MRIs generally operate in the megahertz or tens of megahertz range, depending on the field strength? Shielding an MRI room with copper or steel costs tens of thousands of dollars. I don't have any sheet copper anymore, otherwise I could do some basic testing. But I demonstrated earlier that aluminium foil does attenuate a range of EMI, although I cannot offer attenuation figures, did not test AM/FM radio frequencies, and do not have a digital EMF meter.

I cannot vouch for the effectiveness, but if a bed cage is the easiest solution rather than lining the walls with aluminium foil, some sort of metal mosquito net would help somewhat? I am not sensitive to EMI so I can't do subjective tests.

 

[Esther12]

I've already addressed this issue in the thread

(I do feel severely and consistently worse with long term exposure to EMF devices)

It seems to me that there are so many potential confounding factors that unless you tested yourself as part of some sort of blinded experiment, the sort of response you describe could not be confidently linked to EMF devices. Best of luck with it all.

 

[Hip]

@golden
I noticed that you posted on another thread about using a "Rife machine", which is a device which pumps extremely high levels of electromagnetic radiation into your body, with frequencies in the MHz range, and power levels likely hundreds of times higher that what you get from mobile phones and other radio wave sources in the home and general environment.

If you have not experienced any negative effects from using these high powered, EMF generating "Rife machines," then I would have thought that you are unlikely to be electromagnetically sensitive.

Remember, nobody in the world has yet been proven to be electromagnetically hypersensitive to the man-made EMFs in the environment, as far as I have been able to find out. † So it would seem to make EMF sensitivity an unlikely cause of any symptoms. That is not to say the symptom patients have are not real; these symptoms are certainly real, and may well be severe and even disabling; however, research data from dozens of studies so far suggests that the trigger for these symptom is not EMF.

This is also not to say that certain EMFs cannot have negative effects on heath. EMFs can certainly affect health, but affecting health does not equate to electromagnetically hypersensitivity (the rapid triggering of symptoms by EMFs).

But this then leads to the question: what might be the trigger for these symptoms? One good candidate, as discussed above in this thread, is multiple chemical sensitivity. Multiple chemical sensitivity is certainly known to exist, and MCS can trigger a whole raft of symptoms at the slightest whiff of a chemical in the environment. You may not even be consciously aware of the presence of a chemical, yet tiny amounts of this "invisible" chemical can suddenly precipitate a whole array of symptoms.


† Though interestingly, humans do seem to be sensitive to certain magnetic fields deriving from natural phenomena: for example, the daily disturbances to the magnetic field around the Earth are known to correlate to psychological changes in people. For example, one study showed a statistically increased number of mining accidents occurring when the geomagnetic field was more disturbed, indicating that geomagnetic field disturbances alter mental functioning for the worse (you are more likely to have an accident at work on days when you are "not quite there" mentally).

 

[Hip]

Do people really need to be shielded from weak magnetic fields too? Is "geomagnetic stress" really a problem?

Not sure if it is a problem, but the possible affect of magnetic fields from natural phenomena on living organisms is very interesting.

I find these accounts of animals behaving strangely just before earthquakes fascinating. I have always suspected that this strange behavior might be caused by magnetic field oscillations arising from the rocks below. This article about predicting earthquakes using such magnetic field pulses arising from the rocks is interesting:

Scientists seek foolproof way to predict earthquakes using magnetic waves

 

[golden]

@golden
I noticed that you posted on another thread about using a "Rife machine", which is a device which pumps extremely high levels of electromagnetic radiation into your body, with frequencies in the MHz range, and power levels likely hundreds of times higher that what you get from mobile phones and other radio wave sources in the home and general environment.

If you have not experienced any negative effects from using these high powered, EMF generating "Rife machines," then I would have thought that you are unlikely to be electromagnetically sensitive.

Remember, nobody in the world has yet been proven to be electromagnetically hypersensitive to the man-made EMFs in the environment, as far as I have been able to find out. † So it would seem to make EMF sensitivity an unlikely cause of any symptoms. That is not to say the symptom patients have are not real; these symptoms are certainly real, and may well be severe and even disabling; however, research data from dozens of studies so far suggests that the trigger for these symptom is not EMF.

This is also not to say that certain EMFs cannot have negative effects on heath. EMFs can certainly affect health, but affecting health does not equate to electromagnetically hypersensitivity (the rapid triggering of symptoms by EMFs).

But this then leads to the question: what might be the trigger for these symptoms? One good candidate, as discussed above in this thread, is multiple chemical sensitivity. Multiple chemical sensitivity is certainly known to exist, and MCS can trigger a whole raft of symptoms at the slightest whiff of a chemical in the environment. You may not even be consciously aware of the presence of a chemical, yet tiny amounts of this "invisible" chemical can suddenly precipitate a whole array of symptoms.


† Though interestingly, humans do seem to be sensitive to certain magnetic fields deriving from natural phenomena: for example, the daily disturbances to the magnetic field around the Earth are known to correlate to psychological changes in people. For example, one study showed a statistically increased number of mining accidents occurring when the geomagnetic field was more disturbed, indicating that geomagnetic field disturbances alter mental functioning for the worse (you are more likely to have an accident at work on days when you are "not quite there" mentally).

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-rife-machine-for-cfs.7992/page-6#post-407218

Hopefully that links to the posts. It is a Hulda Clarke Zapper which has no rife technology in.

i first posted on the rife thread (sorry OP) when I did not understand this. It seemed best to write the results on that thread too.(edit: i did kind of understand but i still thought of a rife machine the same as a Zapper. )

I dont know what happened but I finally got my home will witnessed and thought i was going to pop my clog.
Severe. Severe . Severe.

If there were any Doctors or Hospitals here in the UK - be sure I would have gone.

However there is a bit of rife technology in the ASYRA technology and I felt great after that. these sessions last 5 minutes. The RIFERS maybe able to explain the healing frequencies better...

The plant studies are remarkable. whilst skeptics will say BUT we havent got leaves or roots... i think thats aside from the point.

The problems are the spikes of high intensity pulses likened to strobe lighting in SMART meters and the bombardment of 24/7 RF/EMF .

There does seem to be more scientific evidence than i realised confirming ES.


I am electrosensitive. I have no doubts. Depending upon how physically strong i am to begin with depends upon how long my body can cope with it.



its like being in a Silent Storm. Because its invisible I think people may not be realising their health problems are being caused by it.


I will look more closely at ur post when i have had a break...

i even see that the psychiatrists have been all over ES too!

Its a fascinating topic.


Golden

 

[Hip]

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-rife-machine-for-cfs.7992/page-6#post-407218

Hopefully that links to the posts. It is a Hulda Clarke Zapper which has no rife technology in.

A "Zapper" works on the same principle: it generates a powerful electromagnetic field within your body. All these devices are based on pseudoscientific claims, but nevertheless they do pump powerful EMFs into your body (and it is not inconceivable that these EMFs may have some effects/benefits in the body † ). Anyway, if you don't get ill effects from the powerful EMF's from Zapper/Rife machines, then you are likely not electromagnetically hypersensitive.

But even if not electromagnetically hypersensitive, electromagnetic fields may still conceivably have some longer term negative health effects on the body, so it may still be worth exploring electromagnetic shielding.


† For example, it is conceivable that Rife/Zapper equipment creates the so called bioelectric effect. The bioelectric effect is a phenomenon in which the potency of antibiotics against bacteria hiding in biofilms is increased by an amazing100 million times when an electric current is passed through the infected region.

 

[golden]

I was just wondering if these subjects should be on a new thread?



As Womble has said he just wants people with ES and solutions and experience to tell what worked...

if not , I will carry on posting on this thread - never 100% on thread etiquette ...

Best
Golden