The Electrical Apocalypse: Can we avoid it?

[biophile]

I am not an EE but I do sometimes dabble in electronics. I don't seem to have any problem with EMI and I am uncertain how much it can affect people's health, as it is not something I have given much thought to, but your body can act as an antenna and this is well known to anyone who has put their finger on an oscilloscope probe and seen the mains hum on their screen.

The only time I remember feeling a little weird around EMI (which could have been coincidence i.e. the immediate post-effects of exertion from physically setting up the experiment in the first place) was being close to high voltage discharges. I have been more concerned about clamping conductive interference to protect drive circuitry rather than shielding from radiated interference, and I don't have experience with creating Faraday cages for whole persons.

I have to admit I am naturally skeptical about electromagnetic sensitivity, but I also previously doubted chemical sensitivities until I became sensitive to medications myself. The evidence dismissing multiple chemical sensitivity generally comes from studies involving blinded samples of odors, rather than ingesting blinded substances, so I think sensitivity to chemicals is probably real. Odor based MCS may also be real for a small proportion of people who do report symptoms but are being statistically drowned out. There is a lot we do not know about human biology.

When studies demonstrate that electromagnetic sensitivity does not exist, I do not know enough about the subject to argue with the research or the experts. But other "experts" are also claiming that the activity ceiling in ME/CFS does not really exist either and that graded increases in activity are inherently safe, which I know from personal experiences, analyzing the research for myself, and anecdotes of many others, is just false and in this case the so-called "experts" are wrong and cannot be taken at face value.

 

[biophile]

$485 for this looks like a scam http://www.energpolarit.com/product_images/DioMed500x500.jpg . Active shielding is real, but this device would not do everything it claims to do with what looks like a passive garden ornament.

As I understand it (could be wrong), there are many technical considerations when using a metal cage for EMI shielding, such as, which frequencies you intend on blocking, and which materials are available to you. How much gap you can get away with in the metal also depends on the wavelength (which is inversely proportional to frequency). Mains power is only 50/60Hz, power supplies in PCs can vary but around 100kHz, Wifi is much higher at 2.4GHz. A broad spectrum Faraday cage may be more complicated/expensive and require technical expertise.

The metal cage acts as a reflector, so it does not necessarily need to be connected to ground to shield the inside from EMI, the grounding is to prevent the electrical potential of the metal cage itself from floating above ground, which may not be a problem if you are only dealing with relatively low power emissions.

Please be aware that if you decide to connect the Faraday cage to the ground earth connection of your mains power, it will probably now also be connected to your mains neutral connection too. This means that if you are touching the metal cage and come in contact with the active connection of mains power e.g. touch faulty equipment, ZAP!!! Perhaps an alternative may be to drive a 1 meter long stake into the ground and connect to that instead.

Aside: Sensitive electronic components are stored and transported in partly-conductive plastic bags which have a silverly translucence to them. These act as Faraday cages too. When handling these components, the minimum standard to protect them from electrostatic damage (a different problem to EMI), is to connect an anti-static mat and wrist strap to ground before working with them. The conductive material of the mat has significant resistance, and the wrist strap has a high value resistor in series with it. This slows down any discharges and also protects the user from shock if accidentally coming in contact with the active mains power terminal*. I am not sure if such ballasting is used on any Faraday cages.

* No, this does not mean you cannot be shocked from mains power if you touch both the bare active and neutral terminals at the same time, only that if you accidentally come into contact with the active terminal e.g. faulty equipment (obviously a rare scenario), the series resistor will limit the current to a safe range.

Someone mentioned high frequency pulses from PCs vs a "sinus" wave. I believe you are talking about a sinusoid/sine waveform, which is the general shape of mains power alternating current, 50/60 hertz depending on the country and 400Hz for some special applications. Whereas the switch-mode power supplies found in PCs are switching currents at higher frequencies*, on the order of tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of times per second. (* Not really high frequencies as far as communication transmissions go, which can reach GHz).

Aside: IIRC, higher switching frequencies can increase the efficiency of the power supply, but each individual transition also results in losses when the transistor is switching between states, so to help compensate for increases in switching losses, the transition between states is done faster. Power transistors (often MOSFETs) used for these applications can switch between states in mere tens of nanoseconds (nS = billionths of a second). This however produces higher intensity spikes. SMPS are supposed to have filters to reduce emissions, but cheaper ones may have inadequate filters. There are also "soft" and zero voltage switching techniques which reduce emissions.

Unless the equipment cabinets were metal or something, I don't know how external ventilation would remove EMI, sounds like a different problem, such as mild ionization of air, or even high frequency noise reduction?

 

[Esther12]

This is probably OT, and we're talking about a radically different level of exposure, but within the pirate radio scene it's widely reported that almost all of the people most involved in building the powerful transmitters used in the past have ended up rather broken (maybe confounding factors are at play here too - maybe this is just my own prejudices but: obsessive, techy sorts outside of mainstream society, within social circles likely include regular drug users? Who knows?).

I'm not dismissive of the possibility of some people being extraordinarily sensitive to these sorts of things, but it does seem like the sort of area where misunderstanding and misdiagnosis is likely to be a real problem, and where people should only believe that they have a problem with EMFs if there is good evidence that they do.

re MCS and smell: Strong smells are another thing reported to trigger migraines, so there could be further confusion caused by this.

 

[golden]

I found a Survival Guide!

http://www.weepinitiative.org/livingwithEHS.html

Not read it all yet, but has already given me tips I had not thought of.

Best
Golden

 

[Helen]

@Womble The answer could be just NO, but I will try to answer your earlier questions too. Please, excuse my language as it is complicated to write about this subject.

So no, I am not better but my reduced glutathioned hadn´t increased very much on the protocol either. Probably that depends on Lyme disease that I recently was diagnosed with. I must have had Lyme for three years. Then I also have several GST SNP´s in the livers Phase II detoxification which probably decreases my ability to bind the glutathione to toxins. Then the electro smog increases fast around us so it is also difficult to keep up with.

Amalgam removal (and all metals) has by experience from most electro sensitive people, including myself, been the best we have done for recovery. But , not as I had it done, but by an knowledgeable dentist (www.IAOMT.org). Those who had B12 injections beside seem to have recovered better than others. Probably all, or most of us, had a defiency due to genetics as we have got to know later by gene testing.

Mold and its toxins is a must to leave to get better.

I am lucky to have doctors who are ES too, to discuss with. We are convinced that if it is possible to find a place outdoor with less EMF exposition for an hour or more daily that makes a difference in symptoms. It might be hard to find depending on where you live. As an example I once had a cup of coffee and sat leaning against the wall of the red warehouse "in the water" on the photo. http://www.loven.gu.se/stationer/kristineberg/ I began feeling dizzy and I asked the marine researchers working in the warehouse if there was any electric equipment inside, just behind the wall. Yes, there is the station located where we recharge our trucks.

After lots of trials and errors in my environment I bought good devices to detect the worst sources of EMF
http://www.gigahertz-solutions.com/en/About-us/Experts-opinions.html I have some different kind that are very helpful to detect the sources when I already have noticed symptoms.

There are Faraday´s boxes by special fabric that works rather well to shield. http://rtk.se/category.html/baldakiner. Just to get an idea of what it looks like.

Then painting that shields with help from charcoal helps a lot. Even if you don´t use shielding curtains it gets a lot better. The painted wall or ceiling works as a just a thick wall. It is more problematic to shield the floor, so painting works best when you can control what´s under. A piece of shielding fabric may also stop exposition.

Just a few thoughts that might not be new to you. I am really sorry for your situation, and I do hope that you can find a way to get better from the ES.

 

[Hip]

It is more problematic to shield the floor

You can lay strips of overlapping aluminum cooking foil on the floor, under the carpet, and this will completely block out EMF from below. You could also use cooking foil as a sort of wallpaper on the walls and ceiling, and then paint the foil wallpaper (once glued to the walls) with metal paint to make it look good. As long as the "wallpaper" strips of cooking foil overlap each other by say half an inch (so that the strips make electrical contact with each other), you are going to get a pretty much total block out of EMF — certainly cooking foil is a better EMF blocker that the shielding fabric or shielding paint. (Aluminum foil has a higher electrical conductivity than the shielding paint and the fabric, which makes foil a better EMF blocker).

And cooking foil would also be much cheaper than shielding fabric or shielding paint. If you were to completely cover the four walls, door, ceiling and floor of a small bedroom or study room with cooking foil bought in rolls from a supermarket, it would cost only around $60.

Though you'd still need to use conducting shielding fabric as lace curtains for the windows.

 

[Helen]

@Hip

Thanks for the rather simple and cheap suggestions to solutions! But I think there might be problems with cooking foil as I have learnt that there is a difference between cooking foil and the shielding paint that you probably can comment on. It has been said that the charcoal paint absorbs the radiation from e.g. cell phones, smart meters, and routers. Cooking foil and other metallic shield reflects the same. And using a shield that reflects the radiation can create what they call "nodes" that maybe is an international term for a spot with a higher exposition than in other places in the room. These nodes then makes it worse for ES people at these locations in the room.

Shouldn´t the cooking foil also be earthed/grounded?

I have followed people who have tried to shield according to physics but with unexpected results- it didn´t help to lower the exposition. In Sweden quite a few people got electro sensitive when the PC´s where introduced at workplaces in the 80ths. (At that time we were the people with most amalgam fillings per person in the world. Since 2009 amalgam fillings are banned.) So today there are several companies working with shielding and other solutions to make it able for people to stay in their homes.

 

[Hip]

I think there might be problems with cooking foil as I have learnt that there is a difference between cooking foil and the shielding paint that you probably can comment on. It has been said that the charcoal paint absorbs the radiation from e.g. cell phones, smart meters, and routers. Cooking foil and other metallic shield reflects the same. And using a shield that reflects the radiation can create what they call "nodes" that maybe is an international term for a spot with a higher exposition than in other places in the room. These nodes then makes it worse for ES people at these locations in the room.

That is a very astute point you make, Helen, and a quick Google search shows that certain configurations of carbon can indeed absorb rather than reflect microwaves (but I am not sure about other EM waves). Carbon-based microwave absorbing paints however don't look impressive: this study found these paints only absorb about 60% to 80% of the microwaves, which is pretty much useless, and is not going to protect you at all. The shielding paint sold here does much better, and they quote figures of a 99.9% reduction in microwaves (but I am not sure if that reduction is achieved via absorption or reflection mechanisms — I imagine it might be both). A 99.9% reduction means that you are reducing the microwaves to one thousandth (1/1,000) of their original power.

The silver-coated electrically conductive fabric sold here quotes a microwave reduction ranging from 20 to 40 decibels (db), depending on the fabric product. A 20 db decrease means reducing the microwaves to one hundredth (1/100) of their original power. A 40 db decrease means reducing the microwaves to one ten thousandth (1/10,000) of their original power.

(For conversion from db figures to power reduction figures, see here).

But the best performance by far comes from aluminum foil. You can see from the figures here that metal foils produce around a 100 db reduction! A 100 db decrease means reducing the microwaves to one ten billionth (1/10,000,000,000) of their original power!!

So really, aluminum foil is amazing: it reduces microwaves and other radio waves to a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of their original power.

LIke aluminum cooking foil, silver-coated electrically conductive fabrics will only reflect microwaves, not absorb them.

But I cannot really see that there is any problem with reflecting away microwaves and EM radiation. Inside a room lined with aluminum cooking foil, all the microwaves will be reflected away from that room, and inside the room, you will be pretty much free of all microwave and EM radiation.

Shouldn´t the cooking foil also be earthed/grounded?

It does not need to be grounded, as far as I know, but grounding won't do any harm. Think of a bathroom mirror that reflects light (which is only another form of EM radiation): the mirror does not need to be grounded in order to work.

See here for a discussion on earthing Faraday cages.

It would certainly be a good idea to electrically connect together all the aluminum cooking foil (or shielding paint) on the wall, floor and celling. Really there should be no gaps between wall, floor and ceiling; that is to say, the aluminum cooking foil from the floor (and ceiling) should overlap onto the foil on the walls. If there are gaps, a small amount of microwaves may get in.

And it is best to use the heavy-duty aluminum foil, which is slightly thicker.

I have followed people who have tried to shield according to physics but with unexpected results- it didn´t help to lower the exposition.

You mean it did not help reduce microwave and radio wave levels, as measured by a meter? Or it did not help reduce people's symptoms?

 

[biophile]

Good point Esther12. When there are high power transmissions involved, there could be problems for some people.
I don't know enough about the research to comment with much confidence.

There was a higher than normal incidence of breast cancer at a Australian Broadcasting Corporation building:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Broadcasting_Corporation

There also seems to be some evidence for health effects when living close to high voltage overhead power lines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation_and_health

Back to the subject of this thread, the best possible solution would probably involve multiple materials and be very expensive. Aluminum foil is a cost-effective compromise. I do not know much about conductive paints, I guess the performance depends on what the additive is, but aluminum foil would be orders of magnitude more conductive, which as Hip already pointed out, should make a much better shield for the walls. I found a carbon-based product webpage which claimed that 10% of the effect was due to absorption, which does not sound like much even if it is true.

I was not sure how well aluminum foil performs in real world applications, so I did some experiments:

I wrapped my GSM-band mobile phone in aluminum foil and was no longer able to call myself from a working land-line. Then I tried wrapping the 2.4GHz wireless handset of my land-line in aluminum foil: at only a few feet away from the base station, the handset could still receive calls, but not at 6 feet away or more.

I no longer have an oldschool AM/FM radio so could not do a test. I couldn't be bothered setting up a wireless router I have for this experiment, since I do not use it for regular internet.

I do not have a digital RF meter either, but I do have one of those pen size devices which glows red at the tip in the presence of relatively strong lower frequency EMI and is used for non-contact detection of mains power in cables i.e. 50/60Hz. Just to make sure, I first successfully tested it to detect EMI in a mains power cable and also from a high voltage project operating at roughly 100kHz. When I wrapped this detection device in aluminum foil with a tiny gap to see it glow or not, it no longer appeared to detect anything from either of these EMI sources.

I did not bother to ground the aluminum foil in any of the above tests.

 

[Hip]

I wrapped my GSM-band mobile phone in aluminum foil and was no longer able to call myself from a working land-line. Then I tried wrapping the 2.4GHz wireless handset of my land-line in aluminum foil: at only a few feet away from the base station, the handset could still receive calls, but not at 6 feet away or more.

Nice test, biophile.

I think the reason that some signal from your cordless landline phone antenna got through the aluminum foil was because the antenna was too close to the foil. I don't really know much about this, but in electromagnetic transmissions, you have what is called the near field electromagnetic waves, which are located right next to the antenna, and the far field electromagnetic waves, which begin a little further away from the antenna.

I believe that the near field electromagnetic waves may be able to pass through an electrical conductor like aluminum foil. I think this is because an oscillating magnetic field driven by an electric current in a wire or solenoid can pass through an electrical conductor, and close to the antenna, you have, in effect, an oscillating magnetic field driven by an electric current in the antenna.

Further away from the antenna, at the far field, you also have an oscillating magnetic field and oscillating electric field (as of course this is what electromagnetic waves consist of); but in this far field case, the oscillating magnetic field is not directly driven by a current in a wire, and so cannot penetrate through a conductor.

There is a way to calculate where far field begins (I believe the distance is related to and comparable to the size of the antenna).

I think if you placed your cordless landline phone in the middle of a some foil container, with say 3 or 4 inches clearance between the phone and the foil, then by the time the electromagnetic waves from the phone hit the foil, they will already be in the far field, and so they will not penetrate the foil.

 

[biophile]

Thanks, Hip. Good point re near and far field. My first thought during the test was the inverse-square law, perhaps at several feet away the wireless connection becomes too weak to pass through. The wavelength of 2.4GHz is 12.49cm. I attempted quickly to calculate the distance of the beginning of the far field and got about 25cm to 52cm depending on antenna length (which I do not know the exact length of), so it seems plausible! I might try your suggestion later.

 

[Hip]

@biophile
I think these near field / far field considerations are only important if you are going to try to shield a device in your house that transmits electromagnetic waves, such as a smart meter, or any electronic equipment you have.

If you wrap aluminum cooking foil directly around the smart meter, this foil may be too close to the smart meter antenna, and therefore some electromagnetic waves will be able to pass through the aluminum foil, because close to the antenna you have the near field waves that can pass through the aluminum.

So to properly shield a transmitting device like a smart meter, you would want to place the aluminum foil at a distance away from the smart meter — a distance equal to the distance to the beginning of the far field. Once you are at the far field distance, virtually all the near field waves will have disappeared, and you only really have far field waves, which cannot pass through aluminum foil.

So you need to know the far field distance, in order to know where to place the aluminum foil.

I was trying to find a far field distance calculator online (a java or javascript one that performs the calculation for you), but I could not find any.

In case anyone needs it: the formula for the distance (in meters) from the antenna to the beginning of the far field is:

Distance to far field = 2 x D^2 / λ​

where D is the largest dimension of the antenna (in meters), and λ is the wavelength (in meters) of the transmitted waves.

Ref: page 15 here

If you are shielding a device that transmits electromagnetic waves in your house, you'd want to place the shielding material (like aluminum foil) at this distance (or more) from the antenna of the device.

 

[Womble]

@caledonia
I have been electrosensitive (ES) for 20 years. I had an exam done some months ago when they examined myelin and axons and it didn´t show any defects of the myelin sheets. So , I don´t believe in the hypothesis that Richvank proposed. I have also been on a methylation protocol for more than 2 years. I do wish it had been possible to discuss this with Rich...We talked about the connection with GST gene defects that he also wrote about and lifted in some of his last posts 2012.


I have looked at gene tests from about 20 people today that are ES. They all have gene defects in the methylation cycle, and they all have GST gene defects. So my opinion is that we are intoxicated due to genetic defects in the methylation (which causes to low glutathione) and/or to enzyme defect(-s) that lowers the conjugating/binding capacity of glutathione. Too low glutathione, that we can´t bind properly.

I am just now getting around to reading these, I apologize. My brain fog makes it really hard to keep up with these forums.

Your refutation of the myelin theory makes sense, but is it possible that they have found myelin defects in other patients with ES? I've never done any myelin testing, is it something that I could easily get tested for? Have there been any myelin studies in general?

It appears that all people that are EMF sensitivy are also MCS or chemically sensitive, so there is definitely a connection. All these people also have CFS/ME, so all 3 are obviously connected also.

It keeps coming back to gluatathione again and again, but I'm just nore sure how taking glutathione is really benefiting me at the moment.

Again, I've been taking about 100-300 mg a week, along with Vitamin C and QoQ10, and right now I'm still more sensitive then ever and also having bad tremors and leg pain that increases when I supplement.

1. Is there some sort of expert on all this glutathione stuff that I should be talking to, and by this I mean a doctor or leading researcher or pioneer in the field.
2. Has anyone out there cured themselves from ES or CFS with glutathione, and can claim a 100% success?

I'd love to hear success stories!!! I need hope

P.S. I apologize if some of my responses have been redundant or repetitive, I lost the thread, so to speak, due to some brain fog.

 

[Womble]

I am not skeptical, I am truth oriented — ie, I want to get at the truth of the matter, which is a different thing.



And much of my discussion is not on whether EMF sensitivity is real, but instead provided suggestions on how to reliably test whether a given individual may have EMF sensitivity.



So if you are sure, cut to the chase, and buy the electrically shielding clothing that I provided links to above.

Or go one better, and set up a complete Faraday cage using this electrically shielding cloth, like this woman here. A cloth Faraday cage is a very effective way of cutting out pretty much all EMF.

You can also consider using electrically shielding wall paint, to turn an entire room into a large Faraday cage, which will be EMF free inside (though for this to work, you'd also need to use electrically shielding cloth as lace curtains on the windows).

I have a background in physics, so if you have any queries about such shielding materials, I will try my best to help.

Solution found.

I like the fact that you are truth oriented, and I appreciate your attempting to get to the bottom of what this sensitivity is all about.

Still I'm not exactly sure how "understanding my symptoms" would really help anything, or what exactly you mean by that.

I have a basic CFS/ME syndrome which is worsened by exposure to EMF devices.

I'm not sure what further understanding is needed which will benefit me personally.

 

[Helen]

That is a very astute point you make, Helen, and a quick Google search shows that certain configurations of carbon can indeed absorb rather than reflect microwaves (but I am not sure about other EM waves). Carbon-based microwave absorbing paints however don't look impressive: this study found these paints only absorb about 60% to 80% of the microwaves, which is pretty much useless, and is not going to protect you at all. The shielding paint sold here does much better, and they quote figures of a 99.9% reduction in microwaves (but I am not sure if that reduction is achieved via absorption or reflection mechanisms — I imagine it might be both). A 99.9% reduction means that you are reducing the microwaves to one thousandth (1/1,000) of their original power.

The silver-coated electrically conductive fabric sold here quotes a microwave reduction ranging from 20 to 40 decibels (db), depending on the fabric product. A 20 db decrease means reducing the microwaves to one hundredth (1/100) of their original power. A 40 db decrease means reducing the microwaves to one ten thousandth (1/10,000) of their original power.

(For conversion from db figures to power reduction figures, see here).

But the best performance by far comes from aluminum foil. You can see from the figures here that metal foils produce around a 100 db reduction! A 100 db decrease means reducing the microwaves to one ten billionth (1/10,000,000,000) of their original power!!

So really, aluminum foil is amazing: it reduces microwaves and other radio waves to a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of their original power.

LIke aluminum cooking foil, silver-coated electrically conductive fabrics will only reflect microwaves, not absorb them.

But I cannot really see that there is any problem with reflecting away microwaves and EM radiation. Inside a room lined with aluminum cooking foil, all the microwaves will be reflected away from that room, and inside the room, you will be pretty much free of all microwave and EM radiation.


It does not need to be grounded, as far as I know, but grounding won't do any harm. Think of a bathroom mirror that reflects light (which is only another form of EM radiation): the mirror does not need to be grounded in order to work.

See here for a discussion on earthing Faraday cages.

It would certainly be a good idea to electrically connect together all the aluminum cooking foil (or shielding paint) on the wall, floor and celling. Really there should be no gaps between wall, floor and ceiling; that is to say, the aluminum cooking foil from the floor (and ceiling) should overlap onto the foil on the walls. If there are gaps, a small amount of microwaves may get in.

And it is best to use the heavy-duty aluminum foil, which is slightly thicker.

You mean it did not help reduce microwave and radio wave levels, as measured by a meter? Or it did not help reduce people's symptoms?

Thanks for your post. I will try to answer to your last question. It is unfortunately too difficult to discuss these things in English for me as I don´t have the vocabulary for words or appropriate expressions.

There are so many different kinds of exposure that affects us by "electricity". Excuse my choice of word. I can imagine that you that are in physics feel sick when you see this . So handling one source, and you will find another one that also is affecting you is common. But every load of exposure that can be eliminated use to help with the symptoms.
Then there are often combinations of exposure from chemicals and "electricity" as from new electronics that is really bad for ES people. Amalgam fillings (that should be seen as toxic chemicals) have been shown to release mercury when exposed to frequencies from computers. I have got the study, but it was never published. Too controversial and too much money in this issue.

 

[Helen]

I am just now getting around to reading these, I apologize. My brain fog makes it really hard to keep up with these forums.

Your refutation of the myelin theory makes sense, but is it possible that they have found myelin defects in other patients with ES? I've never done any myelin testing, is it something that I could easily get tested for? Have there been any myelin studies in general?

It appears that all people that are EMF sensitivy are also MCS or chemically sensitive, so there is definitely a connection. All these people also have CFS/ME, so all 3 are obviously connected also.

It keeps coming back to gluatathione again and again, but I'm just nore sure how taking glutathione is really benefiting me at the moment.

Again, I've been taking about 100-300 mg a week, along with Vitamin C and QoQ10, and right now I'm still more sensitive then ever and also having bad tremors and leg pain that increases when I supplement.

1. Is there some sort of expert on all this glutathione stuff that I should be talking to, and by this I mean a doctor or leading researcher or pioneer in the field.
2. Has anyone out there cured themselves from ES or CFS with glutathione, and can claim a 100% success?

I'd love to hear success stories!!! I need hope

P.S. I apologize if some of my responses have been redundant or repetitive, I lost the thread, so to speak, due to some brain fog.

I have never seen any study on myelin and ES. I think this was a hypothesis that Rich came up with and it has not been shared by any serious ES researcher as far as I know. Impaired cell membranes have been studied though.

Yes, all ES people are chemical sensitive and I think the reason is the gene defects in methylation and/or the livers Phase I and II detoxification are necessary for beeing ES.

I am not sure that taking glutathione can help. I have never heard of anyone, and at the beginning I tried it myself. Did you have a 23and me test? I think it would give you some clues. Maybe you have GST gene defects that makes it hard for you to conjugate/bind toxins to gluathione. I would definitely quit taking glutathione if it made me feel worse. Be careful with all kinds of detox as it can release toxins that you may not be able to handle. Even if our health problems start with a glutathione deficiency that make us intoxicated I think we shall be very careful when trying to get rid of the toxins.

Answer to question nr 1: http://drhyman.com/downloads/Dementia-Myth.pdf e.g.

The only success stories I have heard about ES are about people who carefully with a knowledgeable dentist removed their amalgam and other metals from their teeth. Some have gotten rid of the ES instantly after the last removal. And from some who moved out from waterdamaged buildings. Try to reduce your toxic load and don´t be too eager to detox actively. Go very slow.

 

[Hip]

Still I'm not exactly sure how "understanding my symptoms" would really help anything, or what exactly you mean by that.

I have a basic CFS/ME syndrome which is worsened by exposure to EMF devices.

I'm not sure what further understanding is needed which will benefit me personally.

The benefit for you in testing for electrosensitivity is this: if you were to go ahead and create an EMF-free room in your home, using the EMF-blocking materials discussed above in this thread, it might cost you anything around $300 to $1000, depending on which materials you use, not to mention a lot of time and effort, and disruption to your home.

Then, if you find your EMF-free room does not in fact help reduce the severe crises in your ME/CFS symptoms which you believe are triggered by EMF, it would demonstrate that you are not really electrosensitive after all (but it would nevertheless leave you out of pocket).

Of course, it would be great if such EMF-free room did in fact work for you, and did provide a new chapter in better health, and a major improvement in your overall ME/CFS symptoms. I certainly hope that you do find something that helps.

But if I were in your position, I would be accurately testing to see which sort of EMFs were affecting me, and which weren't. Reliable tests are blind tests.


Incidentally, on the subject of finding something that helps: have you ever tried a 5-HT3 inhibitor for your vomiting symptoms? If you take say 5 to 10 drops of lemon (Citrus limonum) essential oil diluted in a tablespoon of cooking oil, this is a powerful 5-HT3 inhibitor, which can stop vomiting (and also eliminate travel sickness). As per usual, caution is advised when taking essential oils internally. Ginger is another well known 5-HT3 inhibitor for travel sickness, but lemon essential oil is more potent.

Your frequent urination symptoms (which I also have myself) may be caused by interstitial cystitis (IC) or overactive bladder (OB). IC and OB are common conditions in ME/CFS and fibromyalgia patients. (IC and OB are similar, but IC involves bladder pain). I had OB for many years, even before I developed ME/CFS from a virus. There are drugs that can help control the bladder contractions that lead to frequent urination in OB, such as darifenacin, though I have not tried this myself as yet.

 

[Helen]

@Hip

In this thread @Womble has asked for advice, not concerning being electrosensitive or not. He wants to discuss electro sensitivity and how to handle it. To question him, though he has told you that he has done testing himself is not O.K. I think. I can tell that in Sweden we have EMF-free rooms at quite a few hospitals. Many doctors know, especially cardiologists that EMF might affect us. If you don´t belive in ES I think you shouldn´t debate this here. It is as bad as questioning all people that tell they have ME/CFS insinuating it is all psychosomatic in my opinion.

I realize that you have very good theoretical knowledge that might be helpful. I hope that we can continue this thread in the way that Womble wanted to discuss things and get help to solve his difficult and acute situation

 

[Hip]

Thanks for your post. I will try to answer to your last question. It is unfortunately too difficult to discuss these things in English for me as I don´t have the vocabulary for words or appropriate expressions.

There are so many different kinds of exposure that affects us by "electricity". Excuse my choice of word. I can imagine that you that are in physics feel sick when you see this . So handling one source, and you will find another one that also is affecting you is common. But every load of exposure that can be eliminated use to help with the symptoms.
Then there are often combinations of exposure from chemicals and "electricity" as from new electronics that is really bad for ES people. Amalgam fillings (that should be seen as toxic chemicals) have been shown to release mercury when exposed to frequencies from computers. I have got the study, but it was never published. Too controversial and too much money in this issue.

Your English is great, you seem to grasp the subtleties of electromagnetism quite well, and the terms you use are fine — I have no difficulty in comprehending the points you make.

I do find the research into multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS) interesting (although I don't suffer from MCS myself). Some research indicates that MSC may be caused by a hypersensitivity of the olfactory bulb (the part of the brain that senses smell), rather than from any toxic effect that an environmental chemical might have within the body. In other words, it may simply be the smell of a chemical that precipitates MCS symptoms.

Brain inflammation has been linked to MCS, and I actually have a particular interest in the way that brain inflammation may cause many conditions, from ME/CFS to anxiety disorder to depression.

I think an anti-inflammatory approach may work well for MCS. There are many supplements that can help reduce brain inflammation.


I just came across this clinical trial which turns the tables on things a bit: they are using pulsed electromagnetic fields in order to try to treat multiple chemical sensitivity. It will be very interesting to see if they succeed in doing this.

 

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In this thread @Womble has asked for advice, not concerning being electrosensitive or not. He wants to discuss electro sensitivity and how to handle it. To question him, though he has told you that he has done testing himself is not O.K. I think. I can tell that in Sweden we have EMF-free rooms at quite a few hospitals. Many doctors know, especially cardiologists that EMF might affect us. If you don´t belive in ES I think you shouldn´t debate this here. It is as bad as questioning all people that tell they have ME/CFS insinuating it is all psychosomatic in my opinion.

I realize that you have very good theoretical knowledge that might be helpful. I hope that we can continue this thread in the way that Womble wanted to discuss things and get help to solve his difficult and acute situation

I take the reverse view: you need to question things very thoroughly if you are going to try to get the right diagnosis.

For example, there are likely some people on this forum who believe they have ME/CFS, but in fact they have Lyme disease. Now, by thorough questioning, preferably by a medical professional — and my means of the right tests — it may be determined that they do not have ME/CFS, and in fact have Lyme.

I have questioned myself many times as to whether I might not have ME/CFS, but might have some very similar condition. There is nothing wrong with questioning a diagnosis.

Misdiagnosis is very, very common in the medical world, even with experienced medical professionals. Therefore, anyone who thinks they have electrosensitivity may well have misdiagnosed themselves. And certainly there currently is scant scientific evidence for electrosensitivity causing the symptoms that patients think they cause.

It is well known that electrosensitivity is taken very seriously in Sweden, and I understand that in Swedish schools, even if just one child says they are electrosensitive, then the electromagnetic environment of the entire is school is made EMF free just to accommodate that one child. However, that is itself does not offer any scientific proof of electrosensitivity. It does show that Sweden is a nation that is very concerned with the welfare of its citizens, and it shows that the authorities in Sweden take the safest approach, and err on the side of caution. All of which is very commendable.

I myself err on the side of caution: I don't use WiFi in my home, and I have one of these special low output cordless DECT phones that only transmit when in use (most cordless DECT phones transmit even when not in use).