Thalamus & Basalganglia

[percyval577]

I don´t know if this can be a relativ short intervention. It would mean that the lattice (reticularis) has been collapsed. It would be possible to help it by specifically supplement things that are needed there:

- 500 mg Tyrosin (->Dopamine)
- 250 mg VitC (--> Norepinephren)
- 250 mg Tryptophane (-> Serotonin)
- 500 mg GABA (it crosses obviously well eneough through the BBB)
- ?ng/pg nickel (don´t know if this is necessary -> blocking NMDR, elevating Dopamine)


It works almost fabulous (and progredient). Two or three times a day. (Tryptophane can be difficult for the gut and, without tyrsosine, for the brain, in my experiences).


If I wouldn´t have taken one single time an antipsychotic I now would be able to work for at least two hours a day.


In my case the progredient improvement consists of three interventions:

1. This one
2. Restricting manganese (downregulating iNOS of the microglia).
3. Avoiding sugar, restricting fat a bit (upregulating AChE)

There is some hint that ACh contibutes to (high) nitric oxide. ACh is also elevated by nitric oxide.
(High nitric oxide would have caused the break down of the inner brain synapse working.)

Furthermore it is known (I. Baciu since 1945, and R. Ader 1974) that the nerves via hypothalamus influence the immunesystem. In a rough guess there is nothing not to hope for. Nerves are crucial anyway.

 

[percyval577]

Some additional points:

-- It would be thinkable to do a first day 2. and 3. and then 1.

-- I caused myself some gut issue when I took tryptophan and VitB´s (waterish burning and some opening tendency). Maybe the combination above reversed it. But the observation is not clear.

-- Occasionally I found two movements helpful. a) due to the asymmetry of the body, I guess, movements anticlockwise (arms, eyes or whatever), which would have a structural effect, and b) movements forward round, like riding bike.
-- There are also tinnitus masking sounds on youtube which to little extent sometimes can help to bring the nerves into the right directions. Warning, there is "Most powerful maskink sound" which makes stiches in the brain if you listen to long, in my experience.

-- I use a couple of times a day an anticholinergic, a teaspoon of tomatoegreen tea (but it´s not known if there could be detrimental effects). The effect is pretty pleasant.

 

[percyval577]

A short update.

Surprisingly it turned out that metals which are pronounced in these inner brain structures have a huge impact. It´s Selenium, Zinc, Nickel, Chromium and somehow Aluminium. I tested them seperatly and in combination. The metals can be found in chocolate. Huge amounts of chocolate might not be wise, I guess.

It´s in my case needed not only to serve the brain with them - while improving,

but also to free them, here the chelator Citric Acid (in lemons) works surprisingly well.

both accompagnied by VitB12.


My guess is that the metals act as readjustment of synaptical strucures in especially basal ganglia and thalamus, so it seems to be a bad idea to supplement them when you are on a bad track,
but a very helpful idea to supplement or chelate them when you are on a good track.
I am on a good track since three years by a low manganese diet. I wonder if this metal issue have been the main rate limiting thing. I am doing this now for four days.


I use half a lemon in 0.2l water
and thin cocoa water (pure), 0.2l,
after having drunken a bit of the one or the other I drink a bit of ViB12, three drops in 0.2l.


Additional help (in my case):

Selenium extra
VitB2 (FAD), Vit B1 (NAD+), Biotin
gaba+taurine, tyrosine,
I then got bad effects from tryptophane and niacin, as well from VitB6.


Maybe it´s simple like so:

reversing/observing an original (indirect) impact - if known...
(directly) readjusting those structures by these metals and VitB12.

 

[percyval577]

On top of my main influence, it´s all together now
(and rapidly working that I won´t ask for another disability in autumn):

1. lower Manganese diet (maybe part is that I now restrict protein intake, lessening manganese release from
... the liver)
2. in itself only a symptomaticly help: 250g GABA and taurin each, 2x/day, here addtional selenium (50µg)
3. redistribution of metals (when the circumstances are good, here overall good according to 1.)
...a) chelation: citrate acid (1 lemon in il water/ca. day) [using a straw]
...b) intake: chocolate, up to 37g/time (usually)
4. Vitamins: B2, B1, B7, obviously there are areas in my brain which (now) have a need, havn´t tested vit B5)
...(5, 50, 2.5 mg)
5. epigentical change: 150µg vitB12, in the 1l lemon water, similarly:
...half a drop of vinegar, hoping for acetylation, however, there is an effect)


- In the morning I start: GABA/ Taurin -> Lemon water -> Se -> Chocolate -> VitB2 -> (VitB1) -> VitB7

- 4. also after meals, waiting often longer to take in, especially VitB7

- 3. over the whole day

- in the evening: GABA/Taurin and Selenium


It´s good luck with the low manganese diet, and the whole thing works well.
Often I can think, and I regain my body. I was slowly expanding under difficulties, now accelerating.

I have described it also a few days ago:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...hat-helped-when-corrected.76252/#post-2203974
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/methylation-completely-stopped-working-can’t-find-the-missing-cofactor.76310/#post-2205094
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/benzodiazapines.76226/page-2#post-2205102

 

[percyval577]

I will use the thread also for gathering some attempts I tried on a theory.

on PEM -- the-ido-metabolic-trap-guy.62727/page-15#post-2204932
on a core --how-much-longer-me-advances-projected-timeline-for-tx-or-cure.63100/#post-1030108
on a core (several posts) -- has-current-research-established-cause-of-pem.75356/page-2#post-2187422
on a core specifically -- the-ido-metabolic-trap-guy.62727/page-6#post-1025299
on iNOS and Arginase relationship -- my-low-manganese-diet-my-success-so-far.57677/#post-955892
on manganese tasks -- low-manganese-diet-further-serious-effect-of-mn-has-been-... /#post-971607
with a general consideration (regardless of manganese) 1.-4. --what-supplements-meds-do-we-all-take
a whole theory, incl. a sommersault for nothing (also a trap) -- what-is-your-personal-theory-or-understanding

my-low-manganese-diet-my-success-so-far.57677/page-2#post-956222 -- manganese tasks
low-manganese-diet-further-serious-effect-of-mn-has-been-confirmed.58833/page-2#post-974705 --Manganese experiences on this forum, mostly bad ones from a supplementation
-- Experiences with low manganese, so far not promising:
@SeanQHX1 couldn´t confirm any success
@Wishful told somewhere that he hadn´t any success by a low Mn diet (prior to my time here)
@Wolfcub had a look and would have reported any success, I guess.
MartinK reminded me that a keto diet - which is often tried not completely without success - tends to be low on Mn

on other metals -- ph-acidity-achiness-fatigue-baking-soda-high-bp-is-lemon-juice
on vit B´s --

 

[Wishful]

@Wishful told somewhere that he hadn´t any success by a low Mn diet (prior to my time here)

Did I? I can't remember specifically trying a low Mn diet, at least not for a suitable length. Oh, maybe that was my year or two of mostly cornstarch pancakes. That would have been low in Mn...and everything else. It didn't help.

 

[percyval577]

Roughly, upon my influences, I think the illness is a misdistribution in the brain of

• Metals
• Vitamin D Receptors
• Stem Cells (for long axons), activated vs non-activated
• epigenetic driven activities

This is still pretty unspecified, which should be an advantage. I think the triggers have caused such a misdistribution. It may be in charge under certain, though otherwise normal circumstances. PEM then would result from a miswiring, which would be able to pop up in a later processing of the deeds. I think this possibility is covered here.
Pretty unspecified then is also the following regime, which though should be augmented by VitB12:

• Vitamin C (silencing Stem Cells)
• Citrate (Metal chelator)
• Cocoa (contains many Metals in quite an amount)
• Acetate (Epigentic acetylation, Protein acetylation)
• Vitamin D
• Caffeine in black tea (caffeine downregulates VitD Receptors)

In my experience it is absolutely clue to do this in small amounts and in a certain order to the brain. So, sip after sip.

• (A. occasionally) 300mg VitC in ca 0.4 l water, I recognize when I took too much
• (B1a) juice from a lemon in 0.8 l water OR (B1b) a coffee spoon of pure cocoa in 0.25 l water
• (B2) a drop of vinegar in 0.4 l water
• (C1) 566 IU VitD in 0.4 l water (without calcium)
• (C3) a cup of black tea (say twice a day)

I should have used a straw in every case (I did so only with citrate from lemons), with the excepetion of black tea, of course. I guess the small amounts of vinegar with which I experience since one year has led to teeth issues, sadly.
I havn´t already figured out a best alternation between (B1a) and (B1b), maybe daywise.
(I can´t tolerate a sip of black tea without having drunken a sip from the VitD before.)

I have made progress in the last three months maybe as much as in three years before (with a manganese avoidance since four years). I was able to do things over the whole day, especially mentally which is new. I went for longer walks three days in a row. A general problem with the improvement is that it is like being on a sphere and you ever see only the horizon, not the destination. I get less heavy, and sometimes am back in life.

---
One thing - of these rather unspecified influences - may be missing, and be rate limiting:

• the the proliferation and effects of Stem Cells

Here I found a combo of amino acids, though they might be dangerous, it is thinkable that they would serve cancer stem cells, or cancer growths in more general. I took the combo five times with three times an incredible good effect effect, which also brought a progredient effect about.
The deprivation of Methionine is not only known to slow down cancer growth in mice, but also known to slow down ageing. Methionine though would serve for a renewal of stem cells, and is the first amino acid in every protein which gets built up. Proline metabolism is known to be elevated in cancer. Proline serves proliferation.
I didn´t notice a good effect of proline alone whereas I noticed a good effect of Methionine alone. I think Ron Davis reported Methionine and Lysine to be elevated in PwME, and Proline to be low. I took Met : Prol in 3 : 2. Currently don´t know if I should carry on with these two guys.
---

Important, in my case, is also this probably specified regime: Vit7 -- Vit1 -- Vit2, in this order, mostly I wait different times until I take the next one. Sometimes I replace Vit7 by Vit5. I can´t have any VitB6 and folate, I don´t know about B3.

Important are - occasionally - selenium and zinc, and especially magnesium, probabaly not only in my case.
---

Taken together, this approach obviously implies that the architecture of nerves has become wrong or misleading rather. I am a carpenter, I don´t know if any of the currently working researchers will be looking at such a possibility, and how to rebuild such a structure. Probably not. It still might be impossible to detect, which will be one more obstacle.

Furthermore, it is hindering that the psychosomatic approach wasn´t able to recognize that every psycho-somatic influence needs a biological basis - which could be ill itself. Indeed this place I would think to have become ill. Hope that anyone wants recognize such a "dubious" direction (here an example: Bartky 2008).

 

[percyval577]

The thing mainly holds true. It´s in this order and sip by sip:

1. VitC
2. Citrate
3. Acetate
4. VitD
5. black tea
6. (Zinc)

4-5 can be skipped. Citrate can be skipped for some days.
Zinc is sometimes nice, may work also in a complete charge.


The vitamin B´s I can´t let, too, without that the thing stops working.

Chocolate/Cocoa is still on board.

The additional thing is Chromium, which I only took so far 1x200mcg, and 6x 100mcg,
I will see how this is needed to do further on.


Side effects of single stuffs:
Chromium may please cancer to a degree.
VitD can build Ca kidney stones.

 

[percyval577]

The thing works (maybe with using also the potentially dangerous Proline/Methioine combo),

but it´s turning out to be very expensive, flat and teeth haven´t been cared for well enough,
especially not the flat. I could have gotten a caregiver, but then I would not have been able to figure it out.

 

[percyval577]

(further record)

So, it turned out that there are 6 modules working for my improvement, the first two of which being able to be ascribed to the basal ganglia.

1. low Manganese
2. Zinc / GABA/Taurin/Tyrosin (6 : 6 : 1x)
3. Vit B5, B7, B2, B1; and B3 (in the evening and further to be tested), in my case really no B6.
4. VitC - Citrate - Acetate -- (VitD) - (black tea); sometimes cocoa or chocolate; (description)
5. w-3 fatty acids (e.g. very nice sometimes: sunflower oil / linseed oil / olive oil; and/or brazile nuts), (VitE, e.g. in sunflower oil), of course proteins, and probably potassium.
6. Magnesim
7. Chromium (instead of zinc like in 2.)

Also B3 could be ascribed to the basal ganglia (serotonin), and VitC (dopamine -> noradrenalin)

5) obviously serves for making new cells (or axons).

If the combo Methionine/Proline will be of a major and at some important effect I need to test, doesn´t look like so right now. Baicalin serves for making long axons, and might be an alternative. Here I think the stem cell line C17.2 in the dopamine system to be important to be activated.


Basal Ganglia have been repeatedly suggested to be the origin of fatiques, including ME/CFS. I think delayed PEM likes to confirm this approach. Also the plethora of symptoms that are seen in ME/CFS can easily be integrated.


ASSESSMENT

I am still on my way, it is difficult to judge if the new inventions are an additional help materializing in an acceleration (being causal), or if they are only a help in respect of symptoms. I think though without them I might come out of an ill state much less "easy" (it´s still a fight), although it might be that the manganese thing is in a "time and dose dependent manner" causal. I started the low manganese diet already in 2015, after five years getting worse on a bad level.


SIDE-EFFECTS:

• Chromium can have side-effects. I have already good effects from 50mcg only, I need to look how often I need to take it, probabaly relatively seldom. post #4
• Vit D can have side-effects, see the linked "description" for instance, magnesium is said to avoid (some).
• Zinc is sequestered from tthe side of infections, and is not found in pus at all. Although zinc is important for the immunesystem, it might be not so good an idea to take zinc when having, say, a tooth infection, seems to be in my experience.
• The whole thing might have side-effects, even though it mainly consists of everyday things. What works may have side-effects.
• using a straw in 4.

 

[percyval577]

It´s now three days later, and I wonder if there will appear a bottleneck. Probabaly not, as the most of the stuff never really stopped working!


AMOUNTS
(generally, never much)

I used to take 250 or a 500 mg from the GABA/Taurin/Tyrosin mix.
Powerfully I now I add 40mcg Chromium (or say 2mg Zinc), subtracting the amount from of the supplement the mix.

I used the Zinc from a supplement containing also VitC, might be important to say.

The mixture 1 : 1 : 1 of the oils are really nice, sometimes! A sip not too big.
I got a simily nice effect from pumkin seeds, I thought it would be due to potassium, may not be true though.

The GABA thing I have also in a version with 2.33g Vit B5 added, using it often now.


ORDER
The vitamins B´s I took in the past not together, with an effect. Now I take them quite one after another.

I have almost no order between the modules.
GABA etc in the very morning and in the very evening.
Citrate modul whenever releas is possible.
Vit D maybe two times a day, along with the Citrate modul or not.
Vit B´s along with GABA or/and after meals.
Mg unimportant when taken in, as far as I feel.


Altogether, very nice,
and it looks rather quite some time less than a year to fully recover.

 

[percyval577]

I am putting this for myself - My mother told me that my grandmother used to cook with a lot of vinegar. I saw her using wine as well. I remember to once have seen a rest of a cup of coffee and that I asked her for what purpose. This two- or threefold along with manganese from borrelia (in tics) may have caused a first impact on my brain, basal ganglia and unspecific thalamus specifically.

METABOLISM OF [14C]LEUCINE AND [14C]ACETATE IN SENSORIMOTOR CORTEX, THALAMUS, CAUDATE NUCLEUS AND CEREBELLUM OF THE CAT
S. Berl, T. L. Frigyesi 1968; 1969

Abstract [edited for space and bold]

In the head of the caudate nucleus, the relative specific activity of glutamine (glutamic acid specific activity = 1) was less than 1 with intravenous [14C]leucine as the tracer metabolite.

This is in contrast to observations made in other brain areas (cortex, hippocampus, thalamus, pons, and medulla) where the relative specific activity of glutamine was greater than 1.

This is also in contrast to findings when [l-14C]acetate was utilized as the tracer; under these conditions, in all brain areas, including the head of the caudate nucleus, the relative specific activity of glutamine was greater than 1.

It is inferred that the differences in metabolism of [14C]leucine and [14C]acetate in the head of the caudate from that in other brain areas reflect differences in compartmentation of the glutamate-glutamine system.

google-search=acetate+nucleus+caudatus

 

[percyval577]

The-impact-of-manganese-overexposure-on-glutamate-glutamine-cycle-Manganese-exposure
Monica Paoliello at researchgate

(figure 4)

The impact of manganese overexposure on glutamate-glutamine cycle. Manganese exposure results in a significant increase in glutamate levels through down-regulation of glutamine synthetase (GS) [179] and glutamate dehydrogenase (GDH) [182] along with up-regulation of glutaminase [179].

These effects result in reduced glutamate-to-glutamine conversion as well as glutamate catabolism in Krebs cycle through the formation of α-ketoglutarate.

Mn-induced inhibition of astrocyte glutamate uptake results from inhibition of glutamine transporters (GLT1 and GLAST).

Recent studies demonstrated that this inhibitory effect may be mediated through NF-κB-dependent activation of Yin Yang 1 (YY1) transcription factor [173] and ephrin A3 [178]. It is also notable that Mn induced NF-κB signaling also plays a significant role in astrocyte activation associated with reduced glutamine synthetase activity [181].

google-search=manganese+glutaminase

 

[percyval577]

wikipedia-Ketoglutaric_acid

​

wikipedia-Glutaminase

ADP is the strongest adenine nucleotide activator of glutaminase. Studies have also suggested ADP lowered the Km for glutamine and increased the Vmax. They found that these effects were increased even more when ATP was present.[4]

wikipedia-Adenosine_diphosphate

Although I suspect the change that has occured is only (or predominantly) in the macrostructure of the synaptical network, these articles might be interesting. From the picture of the Krebs-Cycle as shown in Fluge 2017 (page 4) aspartate might be interesting to take in.
wikipedia-Aspartic_acid
wikipedia-Aspartame#Safety_and_health_effects

 

[percyval577]

So, after three years lottery it may be that the following molecules are most important:

• BCAA´s and Tyrosine, which share the same transporter into the brain
• Vitamine B5 and B7
• Vitamine D, very probabaly for the transport of Mn (and Zn) out of the cytoplasm [Mg may be important when taking Vit D]
• Zinc

Zinc I take extra in a retarding supp. The other stuff is good and probably important to take with food. It can in low dose also be taken over the day in water, sip by sip. When splitting B5 and B7, B5 first.

Theory for this being - and this is also how it feels in the brain - that probabilities of synaptical firing in the basal ganglia gets reerect, especially in the funnel shaped nucleus caudatus.

Question then, how long it will take, and if there will be other stuff popping up which would be needed to take in a pronounced way. I had for four months last year basically very good success with five inhibitory molecules, but this is now mostly not helpful or even counterproductive. It may have canceled bad actions in the basal ganglia with leaving the so far good actions.

 

[SWAlexander]

"synoptical firing in the basal ganglia gets reerect,"

Here is a question: What if the neuroreceptors are blocked or partially damaged?
Or/and,
if there is a double-strand DNA (gs 224 therohydrobioterin).

 

[percyval577]

"synoptical firing in the basal ganglia gets reerect,"

Here is a question: What if the neuroreceptors are blocked or partially damaged?

Yes, this is thinkable, within this approach.

The hope then would be that it at least would be possible enough to exert an influence. Given that spontaneous healing does happen, although to small percentage, there might be hope that on a cellular level no genuine failure had taken place. The hope would also be that other things which already may have been found more or less consistently, e.g. in the immunesystem, are a downstream-effects or can be regularly influenced.

Or/and,
if there is a double-strand DNA (gs 224 therohydrobioterin).

If there is too much, it would probably be bad enough.