Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

[M Paine]

Feline Sarcoma is often sited by the anti-vax movement as evidence against human vaccination. I mentioned above, but the CDC (and FDA) consider the adjuvant Aluminium Hydroxide safe for human use. That adjuvant has been implicated as a likely cause of feline vaccination-associated-carcinoma. Most importantly, there is no evidence that suggests Humans are at risk in this way. I hope that we can agree that making the connection between Cats and Humans is harmful, as it adds to the misinformation already prevalent surrounding human vaccination.

Anyone who is concerned can read more here:

Origins of Injection-Site Sarcomas in Cats: The Possible Role of Chronic Inflammation—A Review

Or here...

Addressing Parents’ Concerns: Do Vaccines Contain Harmful Preservatives, Adjuvants, Additives, or Residuals?

"The safety of aluminum has been established by experience during the past 70 years, with hundreds of millions of people inoculated with aluminum-containing vaccines. Adverse reactions including erythema, subcutaneous nodules, contact hypersensitivity, and granulomatous inflammation have been observed rarely."

 

[Mary]

The other thing I am looking into is booking a fast 2-day courier myself, which could hopefully pick up the vaccine from the pharmacy's premises in Russia, and deliver to the UK.

I think FedEx could do this. I just did a test shipping request from Moscow to London for a 1 pound package and it would take 2 days, cost $80.

 

[Hip]

I think FedEx could do this. I just did a test shipping request from Moscow to London for a 1 pound package and it would take 2 days, cost $80.

Thanks Mary. I did a similar thing, and checked DHL for Moscow to London shipping, and it was also 2 days and in the same price range.

Though I am just wondering about co-ordinating this with the online pharmacy in Russia; the pharmacy might agree to use my courier, but then on the day that the DHL/Fedex courier turns up at the pharmacy, asking for my package, perhaps due to bad communications, the pharmacy staff might not know anything about it!

 

[Mary]

@Hip - yeah, the delivery could fall apart - I wonder what the FedEx/DHL policy would be if the pharmacy didn't have your package, if the shipping company would still charge you for attempting a pickup - one way to find out!

I'm impressed by and very grateful for all you're doing here, and will be following whatever progress you make!

 

[Arvan]

Hi Hip, how is the Russian vaccine process going?
Does the Russian pharmacy require a doctors script?
The vaccine instructions say to discard the ampoule after use so in the process of working your way up to the 1ml there will obviously be a number of disguarded ampoules that are very full, but so be it.
Also Staphypan being discontinued in 2005, if, like the Russian vaccine it has a shelf life of 2 years or similar it is difficult to understand how Professor Goffries could be still using successfully his life's supply. Unless shelf life and real efficacy don't line up.
Many thanks to you ,which at times must be extremely exhausting.
It is both exciting and frustrating to have potential successful help so close,but I think most of us are used to the swings and roundabouts .
Take care.

 

[Hip]

Hi Hip, how is the Russian vaccine process going?

The status at the moment is that I am in contact with some Russian / Ukrainian online pharmacies who stock (or can order from the manufacturer) this Staphylococcus vaccine. I am trying to figure out how to ship the vaccine quickly to the UK.

I have found two pharmacies that can ship it to me by 7-day courier without problem, but 7 days out of refrigeration while shipping may degrade the vaccine. So I have asked these pharmacies if they can send me the vaccine by DHL courier, which can ship from Russia / Ukraine to the UK in 2 days.

DHL have websites / telephone numbers in both Russia and Ukraine where the pharmacies can easily book a DHL shipment. DHL can even collect the package from the offices of these online pharmacies if necessary, so it should be relatively easy for the pharmacies to use DHL shipping.

However, so far the two pharmacies have not got back to me to say whether they can oblige me, and ship by DHL. But I keep my fingers crossed that they can.

Does the Russian pharmacy require a doctors script?

Like many online overseas pharmacies, they are prescription-free. I don't think this vaccine requires a prescription in Russia anyway.

The vaccine instructions say to discard the ampoule after use so in the process of working your way up to the 1ml there will obviously be a number of disguarded ampoules that are very full, but so be it.

I read that body-builders, who use all manner of injectable products (eg: growth hormones or peptides), will sometimes load a syringe with an injectable product, inject some of it, and then place the syringe in the fridge for use a few days later, when they want to inject more from the same syringe. I have done this myself before with growth hormone and peptide products.

When doing this, though, I always place a fresh sterile needle on the same syringe each time I perform a new injection. This is important, because when you use a needle to make an injection, bacteria from your skin can transfer to the needle, and then when you use the needle a second time, that bacteria can get into your body tissues, and potentially cause an under-skin infection.

So the process I use is: fill the syringe, inject, remove the used needle from the syringe and place a new sterile needle on the syringe, place the syringe and needle in a clean freezer food bag, and store in the fridge for use in the next few days.

Whether it is safe to do this with the vaccine, I am not sure.

Also Staphypan being discontinued in 2005, if, like the Russian vaccine it has a shelf life of 2 years or similar it is difficult to understand how Professor Goffries could be still using successfully his life's supply. Unless shelf life and real efficacy don't line up.

I was also thinking that. It is possible that Professor Gottfries froze the Staphylococcus vaccines. Some proteins or peptides in solution can be frozen without incurring too much damage.

 

[Hip]

I just want to provide an update of my efforts to get the Russian Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine shipped to me from Russia or from the Ukraine:

Unfortunately, so far I have failed to get any pharmacy to send me the vaccine!

Below is a list of the 4 pharmacies that stock or can obtain the vaccine, which I have contacted, asking if they could send it to me:

➤ http://extrapharmacy.ru — Ekaterinburg, Russia. Website contact page here.

I had high hopes for this pharmacy. The owner Mikhail speaks good English, caters for the international market and ships internationally, was a good communicator, and said to me that they have the vaccine in stock in their refrigerator right now to send, and can get more from the supplier if required! Perfect! He quoted a cost of $72 for 1 box of vaccine (containing 10 ampoules), and told me they can provide 7-day expedited shipping in a cold pack for $65. So that is a total of $137 USD. This is what Mikhail told me on 26 November 2015.

Then I just happened to ask Mikhail on 4 December 2015 if he would be able to ship by the 2-day DHL courier instead, and since then, he suddenly stopped communicating with me, and has not replied to any of my emails. I am not sure if I inadvertently offended him by asking about DHL, but he is not talking to me.

Perhaps if others enquire about the same vaccine, and he realizes there might be more business, he will become communicative again.

If anyone wants to contact this pharmacy, they can be reached here.


➤ http://medicinesdelivery.com — Kiev, Ukraine. admin@medicinesdelivery.com

Initially they told me they can get the vaccine from the supplier, and can offer expedited 7-day shipping. No price was given. But in a later email on 15 December 2015 they said: "Sorry for so late reply. We haven’t answered because we was waiting for our supplier response. Sorry to disappoint you but currently our supplier cannot dispatch this product abroad. The procedure is too complicated and cannot be done due to strong customs export rules. Sorry for any inconveniences caused and thank you for understanding."

So it does not look like there is much hope for that pharmacy.


➤ http://pharmalad.com — info@pharmalad.com

They told me on 6 November 2015 that the vaccine is not available, but to ask again in one month, when they might have more info about availability. When I contacted them again on 30 November, they did not have any further info, and simply said: "Sorry, but no more updates till now." I emailed them again today (6 January 2016) for an update on the availability of the vaccine, but I expect their answer will be the same: "Sorry, no updates".


➤ http://likitoriya.com — info@likitoria.com

The initially told me that they cannot send the vaccine, because the drug is no longer available at the suppliers. Then they later changed their mind, and said the vaccine is available, but they were not sure they could help, because item needs cold chain for transit. I emailed them on 14 December 2015 asking if they could send by DHL 2-day shipping, but no reply.



I also contacted 5 other pharmacies in Russia and the Ukraine (the pharmacies listed in this earlier post), but these 5 did not reply to me at all, even though I Google-translated my email into Russian. However, these 5 are not really geared up for international shipping, unlike the 4 pharmacies I detailed above, which do ship internationally, and which all communicate in English.

If anyone else wants to try to contact the above 4 pharmacies to see if you can get any further than I did, please do so. It is possible that if these pharmacies see more people interested in this vaccine, they will make a greater effort to supply it.

 

[Hip]

Russian pharmacies: I have just been made aware that all businesses in Russia close for a long holiday at Christmas, and will not be reopening until 10 January 2016 (in Russia, Christmas day is generally celebrated on 7 January).

 

[roller]

As you say, we may just have a major staphylococcus problem. This study of CFS patients found that treatment with Staphylococcus vaccine led to a significantly increased capacity of the blood serum to neutralize alpha-toxin. So by treating with Staphylococcus vaccine, the body can better eliminate alpha toxin from our bodies.

Scabies Mites Alter the Skin Microbiome and Promote Growth of Opportunistic Pathogens in a Porcine Model

• Pearl M. Swe,
• Martha Zakrzewski,
• Andrew Kelly,
• Lutz Krause,
• Katja Fischer

• Published: May 29, 2014
• DOI: 10.1371/journal.pntd.0002897

The resident skin microbiota plays an important role in restricting pathogenic bacteria, thereby protecting the host. Scabies mites (Sarcoptes scabiei) are thought to promote bacterial infections by breaching the skin barrier and excreting molecules that inhibit host innate immune responses. Epidemiological studies in humans confirm increased incidence of impetigo, generally caused by Staphylococcus aureus and Streptococcus pyogenes, secondary to the epidermal infestation with the parasitic mite. It is therefore possible that mite infestation could alter the healthy skin microbiota making way for the opportunistic pathogens. A longitudinal study to test this hypothesis in humans is near impossible due to ethical reasons. In a porcine model we generated scabies infestations closely resembling the disease manifestation in humans and investigated the scabies associated changes in the skin microbiota over the course of a mite infestation.
...
We report that scabies infestation has an impact on the host's skin microbiota. Staphylococcus abundance increased with the onset of infection and remained beyond treatment and healing. A shift from commensal to pathogenic Staphylococci was observed. This study supports the link between scabies and Staphylococcus infections, as seen in humans. It is the first in vivo demonstration of a mite induced shift in the skin microbiota, providing a basis for a similar study in humans.

http://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0002897

 

[Hip]

@roller
After some in-depth reading, I don't think the mechanism by which Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine provides major benefits for ME/CFS is related to any Staphylococcus bacterial infection in the body.

I think the mechanism of action of the vaccine relates to the way the toxoids can modulate the immune system. This immunomodulation might reduce autoimmune processes in the body (which may be responsible for ME/CFS), and/or stimulate the immune system to better fight viral infections.

 

[roller]

yes, possible, i dont really understand this stuff.

its interesting, that staph as well as tetanus/diphteria are producing eXotoxins, which are quite different from the normal (bacterial waste) eNdotoxins.
(against tetanus/diphteria we may all have been vacciated and not have any innate immune response anymore)

i believe, the eNdotoxins would raise inflammation level of c-reactive protein? (please correct if wrong).
i suppose, eXotoxins do NOT raise this protein and do not cause a fever?

is this c-reactive protein with ME/CFS generally elevated?
i read on wiki it may be not - so an inflammation caused by exotoxins (if the dont elevate it), may be thinkable?

 

[Hip]

@roller
See this post and this post for studies indicating how the Staphylococcus toxoids interact with the immune system. In the second post, I find the way that Staphylococcus enterotoxin B may modulate autoimmunity very interesting — enterotoxin B may be the basis for how this vaccine works for ME/CFS.

A list of studies on the treatment of ME/CFS with this vaccine given in this post.

 

[healthyalmonds]

yes, possible, i dont really understand this stuff.

its interesting, that staph as well as tetanus/diphteria are producing eXotoxins, which are quite different from the normal (bacterial waste) eNdotoxins.
(against tetanus/diphteria we may all have been vacciated and not have any innate immune response anymore)

i believe, the eNdotoxins would raise inflammation level of c-reactive protein? (please correct if wrong).
i suppose, eXotoxins do NOT raise this protein and do not cause a fever?

is this c-reactive protein with ME/CFS generally elevated?
i read on wiki it may be not - so an inflammation caused by exotoxins (if the dont elevate it), may be thinkable?

Endotoxins are a part of the gram-negative bacterial cell wall. Gram-positive bacteria, which Staph, Clostridium (tetanus), and Corynebacterium (diphtheria) are, don't produce endotoxins.

In this interesting study, S. aureus that produces an exotoxin (leukocidin) was associated with more severe osteomyelitis infection. That toxin also resulted in a significantly higher C-reactive protein (CRP) presence. According to this study, CRP levels are elevated in patients with chronic fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome. Exotoxin-induced inflammation is possible.

 

[roller]

@healthyalmonds

i understand c-protein levels were higher for people in the study with this staph infection etc,
but it is not necessarily higher in ppl with chronic fatqiue.

 

[MeSci]

According to this study, CRP levels are elevated in patients with chronic fatigue and chronic fatigue syndrome.

The lead author of that study seems to have rather a bad reputation here. It would be interesting to know what diagnostic criteria they used.

I think that my CRP levels have always tested normal.

 

[healthyalmonds]

@roller @MeSci

A more accurate way to phrase it is the mean concentration of CRP was higher in patients characterized with CF and CFS according to the study

The conclusion mentions that diagnosis from inflammatory markers has limited usefulness.

 

[Thomas]

It took a while but I finally got through reading this entire thread (I like to try and do that as much as possible to ensure I don't step in 10 pages in and bring up stuff that was already discussed like 5 pages ago). This is a very interesting intervention. A vaccine to cure ME! That reminds me of the old Seinfeld episode where Jerry and Elaine have sex to "SAVE the friendship", lol. Seriously though this treatment is interesting and I am very curious to see Hip's results.

Personally I am weary of vaccines since I am convinced one was responsible for triggering my ME, whether that is true or not I will probably never know, but I think it did and thus I am terrified of vaccines. It's not even the mercury that scares me, it is more the Aluminum adjuvant which seems to cause more trouble as per the work of Dr. Schoenfeld and his ASIA Syndrome. Granted, the way you are describing how you will administer the vaccine (in very very minute quantities, over a long period of time) leads me to believe this is a much safer approach versus blasting the system with this adjuvant in one large dose as is usually studied in illnesses associated with vaccines i.e. ASIA syndrome.

Good luck and I will be keeping tabs on this one. I'm quite experimental with my treatments but when it comes to vaccines I am just personally a little gun shy.

 

[Hip]

It's not even the mercury that scares me, it is more the Aluminum adjuvant which seems to cause more trouble as per the work of Dr. Schoenfeld and his ASIA Syndrome.

My hunch is that the adjuvant would not even be needed for this vaccine to work for ME/CFS. Adjuvants are immune stimulants that are added to vaccines to ensure that they "take," which is to say that they ensure the immune system is educated into making antibodies against whatever is contained in the vaccine (eg, virus, bacterium, or in this case, deactivated Staphylococcus bacterial toxins).

But my hunch is that the positive effect this Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine has for ME/CFS does not arise from educating and boosting antibodies against Staphylococcal toxins. My hunch is that the Staphylococcal toxoids in the vaccine may be directly responsible for the benefits for ME/CFS.

In particular, enterotoxin B in the vaccine may modulate autoimmunity, and this may be the mechanism of action of the vaccine in the case of ME/CFS. The enterotoxin B toxoid in the vaccine I think might still do its job even without an adjuvant.

 

[Thomas]

But my hunch is that the positive effect this Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine has for ME/CFS does not arise from educating and boosting antibodies against Staphylococcal toxins. My hunch is that the Staphylococcal toxoids in the vaccine may be directly responsible for the benefits for ME/CFS.

I agree. And I think this treatment has great potential in the way you have articulated it. It's the mere presence of this adjuvant which can be neurotoxic, as well as it's purpose of stimulating the immune system, that scares me. However, at your micro doses and spread out inoculation schedule this relieves most of my fear.

It seems that in a perfect world, if this type of vaccine were tailored for the ME/CFS community, it would not contain (or need to contain) any sort of adjuvant to avoid unnecessary immune system "boosts" and rely soley on the mechanism you proposed.

 

[Hip]

It seems that in a perfect world, if this type of vaccine were tailored for the ME/CFS community, it would not contain (or need to contain) any sort of adjuvant to avoid unnecessary immune system "boosts" and rely soley on the mechanism you proposed.

Yes, the original Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine made by Berna Biotech in Switzerland was arguably one of the most effective ME/CFS treatments ever discovered. For many people, this vaccine was effective enough to get them back to work. It seems crazy that no money is being spent on resurrecting this vaccine specifically as a treatment for ME/CFS. With a bit of research, you could work out which of its ingredients is playing the active role in putting people into remission from ME/CFS, and then bring to market a product with just those ingredients.