Simplified Methylation Protocol Revised as of Today

[AVA]

Well Update, I stopped the supplements.......and learned that the Gelatin Capsules are an issue for me.....as is anything with Glutamate. The taurine may also be an issue. Apparently the receptors are so sensitive that even eating High Glutamate foods such as Black, or Pinto Beans, Tuna is enough to put me in a stoned, wired, foggy, agitated, state, thinking clearly is an issue when in a acute state of Glutamate exposure. This is not so noticeable to others, but I sure feel it, and I do look stressed & or out of it to those who know me.

I had a CBC blood test, and Postassium, calcium levels...etc THS, and inflammation test, EKG, all normal which is not a surprise. I think the urine tests is the the thing but, Kaiser will not respect my input. Anyhow.....this Glutamate issue is life changing, eliminating so many foods. I still am not satisfied with how this occurred.... Prior to the ingestion of Fola Pro.....I di not have an issue eating tuna, mayonaise, beans,...etc. This will remain somewhat mysterious till Genetic testing done. Has anyone done the 23me Test?
I gather that MethylCobalamin would a very bad idea now....though had been helpful before the Fola Pro. Is 23 & Me adequate or is it necessary to do Amy Yasko's testing?

 

[Lotus97]

Thank you for your responses. I agree I should back off these supplements and see how things go. I stopped the Taurine last night....as after taking it I felt worse for a short interval of approx 1/2 hour. Then wondered if the Gelatin/Glutamate capsule may be behind it.

I also have a hard time pinpointing which foods/supplements are causing my symptoms It might actually be the sulphur in Taurine that's causing the problems. An easy way to test it is to empty out the capsules in water and take the Taurine that way. The sulphur intolerance can be caused by methylation in which more sulfur intermediates will drain down the transsulfuration pathway. Also, when you take molybdenum, you convert sulfite to sulfate more rapidly, raising the sulfate concentration in your blood, some of which is transported into the gut.

Well Update, I stopped the supplements.......and learned that the Gelatin Capsules are an issue for me.....as is anything with Glutamate. The taurine may also be an issue. Apparently the receptors are so sensitive that even eating High Glutamate foods such as Black, or Pinto Beans, Tuna is enough to put me in a stoned, wired, foggy, agitated, state, thinking clearly is an issue when in a acute state of Glutamate exposure.

Methylation can make you more sensitive to a lot of things. It's probably a good idea that you've backed off things until you figure out what's going on.

 

[AVA]

I also have a hard time pinpointing which foods/supplements are causing my symptoms It might actually be the sulphur in Taurine that's causing the problems. An easy way to test it is to empty out the capsules in water and take the Taurine that way. The sulphur intolerance can be caused by methylation in which more sulfur intermediates will drain down the transsulfuration pathway. Also, when you take molybdenum, you convert sulfite to sulfate more rapidly, raising the sulfate concentration in your blood, some of which is transported into the gut.

Methylation can make you more sensitive to a lot of things. It's probably a good idea that you've backed off things until you figure out what's going on.

Yes, indeed there is much that is newly occurring...Pre-Fola Pro I had no issues with Sulphur, or really anything but the peripheral neuropathy. I did eat some food today from Chipotle and did not have resurgence of symptoms. The strange headache, stoned, burning sensation brow/eyelid area....Neuropathy type of burn? I did see a Chinese Doctor/Professor who based on reading my pulse/meridians stated that I am very weak, there is inflammation in my system, liver, stomach, heart, intestine all weak and too much heat in my system. Energy weak. Chinese terms to describe condition. He suggested increase omega 3's, Vitamin D3, & to take Zinc. Gave me customized herbal formula. The first dosage I took, with in 60 seconds I felt my head. Sensation of energy moving...very surprising and first time experiencing such a response. I have several years of experience with Chinese Herbal medicine under this particular doctor....and this was a first.


Laying off the supplements other than omega 3's & Vitamin D3, Magnesium. Faced with the necessity of having the genetic test done. 23andMe ...has anyone done the test and how were you able to use it for insight into what specific supplements and dosages were appropriate and safe?

 

[roxie60]

I also had to back off the majority of my supplements, I have improved in function but still ache all over and other symps. But the brain fog has almost disappeared (except after eating sometimes). I suspect one of my supplements was causing me trubs I ust dont know which. Still on Mentanx, D3, CoQ10 daily. The rest are occasionally. I really feel impact when I take my protein shake (spirutein, Lcarnatine, fish oil, lglutamine, dribose, cinnamon/cloves).

 

[roxie60]

I've taken 23andMe, not sure what to do with the results, in the research phase other than knowng the methylation cycle SNPs. I researched Codiene on SNPedia tonight since I know I have a violent reaction 20-30 mins after taking any kind of Codiene. Problem is I am getting confused by all the info (orientation/alleles), the more I read the less I seem to understand. Very tired, I can only have 4 hrs sleep in prep for EEG and MRI tomorrow. Sadly, these tests are being done when I am functioning more, wish they were done when I can barely function. I'm just tired of the game

 

[adreno]

I also had to back off the majority of my supplements, I have improved in function but still ache all over and other symps. But the brain fog has almost disappeared (except after eating sometimes). I suspect one of my supplements was causing me trubs I ust dont know which. Still on Mentanx, D3, CoQ10 daily. The rest are occasionally. I really feel impact when I take my protein shake (spirutein, Lcarnatine, fish oil, lglutamine, dribose, cinnamon/cloves).

Metanx is very highly dosed, and would certainly cause problems (pain, hyperstimulation, insomnia, anxiety, irritability, increased inflammation) for many of us, me included. If you take the prescribed 2 doses daily, you're getting 4mg mb12, 6mg mthf, and 70mg p5p. Way too much in my opinion.

 

[roxie60]

I take one Mentanx a day. I had nor heard about others having issues w/ Mentanx, wonder if I should stop it again for a week to see if I feel better. I had actually started feeling a bit better before tis week, now back to same ol same ol. I will search Mentanx and see what others have said, thanks for the feedback. Never thot that might be an issue since we know I am MTHFR positive.

 

[Lotus97]

I've heard that some people doing Fredd's protocol start at a low dose of B12 and Folate and then gradually increase it. I'd like to hear from people doing Rich's protocol if they've had similar experiences.

 

[Lotus97]

Thanks very much Rich.

Just one question - is there any alternative to getting these products from Holistic Health? When I bought things from them a few years ago the shipping costs to the UK were horrendous - around 25 pounds for two tubs of multivits. (And the supplements themselves are expensive compared to similar ones from other manufacturers.)Perhaps these costs are different now though.

Jenny

iHerb has free international shipping for orders over $40

 

[Lotus97]

I have come across a major problem with taking ANY of the sublingual B12s. The one's recommended by Fred all contain either Sorbitol or Xylitol and both of these give me horrendous migraines that are unbearable. I know that Aspartame does this to me too and this is how I have come to the conclusion its these artificial sweetners I cannot tolerate.

I have found I am ok for 3 days and then they start getting worse and worse each day until I go for Acupucture to bring it to an end and of course stop the B12s. I am able to continue with the Carnitine Fumerate and 1/2 tab B Rights plus I get some of the B12 and active folates in the 3 Thorne Multi called Basic Nutrients I have been taking since 2007.

Its so disappointing because I noticed a very big difference in my energy when taking all the supplements especally the AdnB12.

I guess its unlikely that the B12s on their own could cause horrendous daily migraines?

Pam

I've heard people having good results with Anabol Naturals' Dibencoplex ADB12. It's a capsule, but some people are emptying out part of the capsule into their lower gum and lip to absorb it sublingually. I do know of at least one person who has had success taking it orally. It's 10,000 mcg per capsule so some people might need to start out with only a portion of the capsule.

 

[Lotus97]

Hi, Madie.

I'm happy to hear of the benefits, and sorry about the reversal. Different people seem to respond differently to this protocol. I think it is involved with mobilization and excretion of toxins. As the methylation cycle function improves, it corrects the dysfunction of the rest of the sulfur metabolism. The detoxication system depends to a great extent on sulfur-containing substances, so as it improves, it mobilizes more of the stored toxins into the blood. The job of extracting them from the blood and excreting them can take some time, as the kidneys move them out in the urine, and the liver and intestines work together to excrete them in the stools.

Some people have benefited by taking activated charcoal to bind toxins in the gut and prevent them from being reabsorbed. If this causes constipation, Milk of Magnesia can be slurried with the charcoal. So long as the kidney function is normal and the person is drinking enough fluids. the kidneys can excrete the excess magnesium.

To help the kidneys to excrete soluble toxins that are in the form of weak acids, it can help to take some lemon juice. Somewhat paradoxically, this will cause the urine to become more alkaline, and that will help to avoid reabsorption and increase excretion of these types of toxins, because they will be ionized to a greater degree. It's important to use a drinking straw and to flush the teeth with water afterward, because citric acid will chelate calcium and can damage the enamel on the teeth over time.

The rashes, in particular, suggest that mobilization of toxins was involved.

I hope that you will be able to experience benefits from this treatment again, soon.

I favor taking the Health Diagnostics methylation pathways panel after a few months in order to check the progress of the treatment, because it can be difficult to gauge the progress from symptoms alone, due to the fluctuations.

Best regards,

Rich

I remember reading about MSM which a sulphur substance being good for detoxification. Is there some connection between that and what Rich said? Would it be useful to take MSM and possible other sulphur supplements along with a methylation protocol?

 

[Jenny]

iHerb has free international shipping for orders over $40

Yes I use iherb, but I'm in the UK, so for any order over £15 you have to pay UK customs charges. Also, when I was looking a while ago for the products Rich was talking about they weren't available at iherb. They may be now of course.

 

[Lotus97]

Yes I use iherb, but I'm in the UK, so for any order over £15 you have to pay UK customs charges. Also, when I was looking a while ago for the products Rich was talking about they weren't available at iherb. They may be now of course.

There are other brands of folinic acid, hydroxocobalamin, and methylfolate being sold at iHerb.

 

[Jenny]

There are other brands of folinic acid, hydroxocobalamin, and methylfolate being sold at iHerb.

Yes, thanks Lotus. My comment on this was back in March 2011, so I'm trying to remember what I was looking for. I think one of them was the Neurological multi-vitamin formula that was only available from Holistic Health at that time. I had bought some in 2009 and was charged a fortune in shipping, so I asked Rich if I could get it anywhere else. I've been on the iherb folate and B12 supplements for years.

All a bit academic now as this discussion was nearly two years ago. I should imagine other companies do similar multis now.

 

[Lotus97]

Yes, thanks Lotus. My comment on this was back in March 2011, so I'm trying to remember what I was looking for. I think one of them was the Neurological multi-vitamin formula that was only available from Holistic Health at that time. I had bought some in 2009 and was charged a fortune in shipping, so I asked Rich if I could get it anywhere else. I've been on the iherb folate and B12 supplements for years.

All a bit academic now as this discussion was nearly two years ago. I should imagine other companies do similar multis now.

Yeah, but perhaps there are some other international people besides you following the thread who are interested in obtaining supplements. That's why I responded even though yours was an old post. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the ingredients in the neurological health formula are pretty standard except for the nucleotides. There are other brands that do sell nucleotide formulas, but I don't know if there's something special about Yasko's nucleotides in the NHF. There was a thread somewhere talking about it, but I've been having trouble finding it again.

 

[Sherpa]

Simplified Methylation Protocol - October 2014 modification

Some of the recommended supplements in the final update of Rich's SMP no longer exist (Neurological Health Formula , Smart Youthful Energy). Some brands, like Perque & Metagenics, are still around but expensive.

Here is a "modern" version of the SMP that I was able to to put together:

1. All-in-One Multivitamin / Mineral - (1 to 4 capsules per day) - http://www.holisticheal.com/all-in-one-multi-vitamin-mineral-120-capsules.html

2. Swanson Ultra Supplemelts Sublingual Vitamin B12 (hydroxycobalmin) - 2 tablets per day under tounge - http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-supplemelt-sublingual-vitamin-b-12-1000-mcg-60-tabs

3. Solgar Metafolin 400mcg (1/2 tablet per day) - http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Folate-As-Metafolin-400-mcg-100-Tablets/14274#

4. Source Naturals MegaFolinic 800mcg (1/4 tablet per day) http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-MegaFolinic-800-mcg-120-Tablets/7735#

or

Kirkman Labs Folinic Acid 400mcg (1/2 capsule) - http://www.amazon.com/Folinic-Acid-400-mcg-Capsules/dp/B008BOSMC0

5. NT Factor EnergyLipids Powder (1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon, once or twice a day) - http://www.pureformulas.com/nt-factors-energy-lipid-powder-150-grams-by-nutricology.html#.


If you are on a budget, #5 can be replaced by sunflower lecithin but the NT Factor seems to have a much more potent effect.

 

[Marc_NL]

Simplified Methylation Protocol - October 2014 modification

Some of the recommended supplements in the final update of Rich's SMP no longer exist (Neurological Health Formula , Smart Youthful Energy). Some brands, like Perque & Metagenics, are still around but expensive.

Here is a "modern" version of the SMP that I was able to to put together:

1. All-in-One Multivitamin / Mineral - (1 to 4 capsules per day) - http://www.holisticheal.com/all-in-one-multi-vitamin-mineral-120-capsules.html

2. Swanson Ultra Supplemelts Sublingual Vitamin B12 (hydroxycobalmin) - 2 tablets per day under tounge - http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-supplemelt-sublingual-vitamin-b-12-1000-mcg-60-tabs

3. Solgar Metafolin 400mcg (1/2 tablet per day) - http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Folate-As-Metafolin-400-mcg-100-Tablets/14274#

4. Source Naturals MegaFolinic 800mcg (1/4 tablet per day) http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-MegaFolinic-800-mcg-120-Tablets/7735#

or

Kirkman Labs Folinic Acid 400mcg (1/2 capsule) - http://www.amazon.com/Folinic-Acid-400-mcg-Capsules/dp/B008BOSMC0

5. NT Factor EnergyLipids Powder (1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon, once or twice a day) - http://www.pureformulas.com/nt-factors-energy-lipid-powder-150-grams-by-nutricology.html#.


If you are on a budget, #5 can be replaced by sunflower lecithin but the NT Factor seems to have a much more potent effect.

I started this protocol more or less:

• 4 Capsules of the All-in-One (2 in the morning, 2 in the afternoon)
  
• Instead of the hydroxocobalamin I started with 2000 mcg (2 tablets) Enzymatic Therapy, B12 Infusion, Energy, 30 Chewable Tablets:
  http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-B12-Infusion-Energy-30-Chewable-Tablets/2119
  
  Now I changed that to 1000 mcg (1 tablet) Enzymatic Therapy, B12 Infusion, Energy and 1000 mcg (1/10 tablet) of Source Naturals, Dibencozide Coenzymated B-12, 60 Tablets
  http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Dibencozide-Coenzymated-B-12-60-Tablets/2454
• Solgar Metafolin 200 mcg
• Source Natural Megafolinic 200 mcg
• NT Factor EnergyLipids Powder 0.8 g (somewhere between 1/8 and 1/4 teaspoon)

Besides this I take

• 2 tablets Now Foods, Potassium Gluconate, 99 mg, 250 Tablets
  http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Potassium-Gluconate-99-mg-250-Tablets/764
• some omega fish oil

I would like to check if I'm doing this right:

• is it correct that only the 2 types of B12 need to be taken sublingual and all the rest swallowed (Metafolin, Megafolinic and also other supplements that I am not yet taking)
• am I right in the amount of dibencozide, 1/10th of a tablet feels like almost nothing and also it dissolves quite fast (I am using a scale to measure 1/10th)

 

[Sherpa]

I would like to check if I'm doing this right:

• is it correct that only the 2 types of B12 need to be taken sublingual and all the rest swallowed (Metafolin, Megafolinic and also other supplements that I am not yet taking)
• am I right in the amount of dibencozide, 1/10th of a tablet feels like almost nothing and also it dissolves quite fast (I am using a scale to measure 1/10th)

Rich's protocol uses only hydroxycobalmin - I tried this and it did not work well for me. I didn't convert hydroxy12 to active forms very well. I needed methylcobalmin and dibencozide, like you are taking.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, only the B12 needs to be sublingual. To take a sublingual and make it absorb, you have to dissolve it quite slowly.
2. There is no "right" amount of dibencozide. It all depends on your existing B12 status, your genetic mutations & preferences.

Here is a good, but expensive, mixed B12 tablet with both active forms in a 4:1 ratio - http://www.seekinghealth.com/active-b12-lozenges.html

 

[Marc_NL]

Thanks, I didn't mean to ask if 1000 mcg is the right amount but I meant that if I want to stay with the 1000 mcg if this is really 1/10 of a tablet, maybe a stupid question because 1 tablet is 10mg but somehow it doesn't feel right to take such a small piece

I will be trying this for two months since according to Rich's report that is more or less the maximum time to feel any benefits if any from this protocol. After that I will increase some of the supplements and try some other things.

As far as my B12 status, I recently did the methylation pathway panel and will post the results here soon, hopefully someone can give some advise based on this.

 

[Sherpa]

A small piece should work just fine. Just be sure to really let it dissolve without moving your tongue. My preference is to take it upon first awakening... as soon as I open my eyes... and lie in bed "meditating" until it is completely gone