Simplified Methylation Protocol Revised as of Today

[AVA]

I agree with cautions and slow, however 99 mg is piddling amount of potassium. It is 3% of daily value for a person who is not suffering a deficiency. I am not doing the methylation treatment, but have low potassium and I take potassium chloride capsules three at a time. If you are still feeling unwell, you might want to slowly increase the amount of potassium that you are taking - either more pills at a time or more frequent pills.

I think, but am not sure, that potassium chloride will get into your system more quickly than potassium citrate. The salt substitute you buy at the grocery store is potassium chloride. If you do not dilute it in enough water, it will do nasty things to your digestive system. I used to put 1/4 tsp. in a cup (8 oz.) of water and did not notice any problem. I now use just 1/8 tsp. to be ultra careful.

Yes, I think it is low too, I just became a big chicken, due to this experience with too much FolaPro right out of the Gate. I am now increasing the Potassium Citrate to (2) caps 99mg each more frequently through out the day. Lots of celery and parsley juice too. I do regret having proceeded so cavalierly.....It really is not my way...I must have thought these cautions did not apply to me. Humble pie sure tastes humble.

 

[Sushi]

Pardon the font size, I had increased it but post small?

Thanks AVA, I think we all had setbacks when first trying the simplified methylation therapy. I had to stop and restart at lower doses several times. I also take potassium several times a day.

You can click on edit for your earlier posts, select the text and increase the font size.

Best wishes,
Sushi

 

[AVA]

Well it appears that today was not as stable as yesterday, though I had increased the Potassium Citrate. I have felt quite weak, and the need to keep seated or just lay down resting. The day had started more promising but once I ventured out to do errands I found that I am on the delicate side.

I would like to add that prior to this FolaPro mishap, I did not have any of these symptoms, strange headaches, swelling of eye lids, and inner area of tear ducts, energy slump, palpitations, and stupid mild dizziness, discombobulated. Just days, Prior to stopping the Fola Pro & Methylcobalamin the area of my ovaries were sore like burning. This is now absent. Not even sure if indeed the ovaries, or urinary tract? Is this what is referred to as OVER Methylation? This process once started eventually winds back down to previous state? Length of time varies per individual, but is this months or weeks? It appears to be pretty profound alteration so trying to wrap my head around how to think about it.

Potassium seems more like a buffer than a deficiency? Is Over Methylation unloading of acidic waste? I have read the posts about Potassium,....have huge gap in my understanding of what has occurred. Not to obsess, but understanding makes it more bearable.

 

[AVA]

I think what has happened from too much Folate is that it has raised the levels of Glutamate which is an Excitotoxin. Thus interferes with Synapses in the Brain......neurotoxin. Anyhow, it may be that the Glutamate needs to be used up somehow, diminished.....till I feel normal?

 

[Sushi]

AVA

Hi, thanks for your message. On my screen the only post with normal size fonts is # 601. I wonder what others see?

Sushi

 

[Little Bluestem]

On my screen the only post with normal size fonts is # 601. I wonder what others see?

I see the same thing. I was wondering why I was so special.

 

[AVA]

This is a test. Bold w/ number 2 font.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Potassium seems more like a buffer than a deficiency? Is Over Methylation unloading of acidic waste? I have read the posts about Potassium,....have huge gap in my understanding of what has occurred. Not to obsess, but understanding makes it more bearable.

Understanding it can also help with resolving it.

I think it is a potassium deficiency. Here are a couple of quotes I have copied for Rich VanK’s posts.

I think that the increased need for potassium results from the cells dividing more rapidly when they are given more folate and B12 to keep the folate in the cells. This enables them to make DNA more rapidly, and that causes more rapid cell division. The new cells need potassium, which is normally the most abundant positive ion in cells. In ME/CFS, people are deficient in potassium to start with, so there is no reserve, and the increased demand causes potassium to go low in the blood plasma, which can affect the heartbeat and produce muscle cramps and other symptoms. So raising the dosages of B12 and methylfolate together will increase the demand for potassium.

Note that over-the-counter potassium supplements are limited to 99 mg per pill. The reason for this is that if too much potassium is concentrated in one place in the digestive system, it can damage the wall of the digestive system.
It is preferable to take the potassium in the form of high-potassium foods or juices, or solutions of potassium salts, as tolerated.

This sounds like too much potassium citrate at once can also damage your digestive system.

People on Freddd’s protocol typically take 2000 - 3000 mg potassium/day. You will need to determine how much potassium you need each day with the amount of B12 and folate that you choose to take.

 

[Sushi]

This is a test. Bold w/ number 2 font.

Hi Ava,

That is still quite small for most of us. I think a # 3 font is the standard one. Thanks for being willing to investigate this.

Sushi

 

[Little Bluestem]

Ava, when I quoted you in post #608, I changed it to number 3 font, unbolded. The system added the italics because it is a quote.

 

[AVA]

Understanding it can also help with resolving it.

I think it is a potassium deficiency. Here are a couple of quotes I have copied for Rich VanK’s posts.


This sounds like too much potassium citrate at once can also damage your digestive system.

People on Freddd’s protocol typically take 2000 - 3000 mg potassium/day. You will need to determine how much potassium you need each day with the amount of B12 and folate that you choose to take.

Thank you very much for this piece of information from Dr. VanK. I am currently not taking any Methylcobalamin or FolaPro....due to what has occurred. I seem to do better taking lower & frequent dosages of the Potassium Citrate. (1) cap 99mg every 3 hours (approx). Before having posted on this forum tried to contact Dr. dealing w/ this issue. She finally returned my call, we have never met. She also mentioned the raised level of Glutamate in my system due to the overly high dose of FolaPro I had been taking. Advised me to be sure to avoid any glutamine of kind & artificial sweeteners. That I already abide by....she knew nothing re: Potassium. Anyhow I guess I just have to sit tight & wait.......this is a Bold #3 Font btw.

 

[AVA]

I just thought I should post that I saw my Kinesiologist /Chiro.....he muscle tested me for dosage of the Potassium Citrate......I did not test well for any amount? Maybe no longer a Potassium issue. Yesterday, I had increased the dosage, but I felt weirdly worse. I did test well for (NAC) N-Acetyl-Cystein, but just 1 cap 3x's per day / 500mg per cap.

I did not have headache problem today....but still feel sensation of being stoned and my eye area though improved, feel weird, and I look peculiar. No Palpitations...Phew. My sleep was alright. I am trying to find out more about what has occurred from too much folate.

 

[dbkita]

Hi Ava,

One reason glutamate rises with methylfolate is by conversion of histidine to a form of glutamate before it can become histamine. This is a classic sign of over methylation (really low histamine, overly high glutamate). There are of course other reasons glutamate can rise to unacceptable levels (i.e. low levels of glutamic acid decarboxylase, low levels of glutamine synthetase, dietary intake, Cystathione beta mutation, etc.). In my case I have Stiff Person Syndrome, which means my body attacks my GAD enzymes in my CNS and I have to control it with corticosteroids, hence I always have a baseline of neurological inflammation I can never exterminate entirely. To reduce glutamate levels also expunge all gluten from your diet. That is more important imo than eliminating glutamine provided it is at low levels for intestinal and muscle health (your body makes 100s of grams of glutamine on its own anyways otherwise you would waste away in no time).

How much folapro were you taking when you had problems? I know from my own experience that 800 mcg of folapro, 800 mcg of folinic acid, 5000 mcg of mb12 sublingual, 50 mg P5p and 500 mg of TMG per day were way too much and increased pain, insomnia, etc.

Only by doing genetic testing did I find I was heterozygote MTHFR A1298c. This means I have no issues making 5MTHF, but lack the control mechanism for slowing down methylation via SAMe feedback inhibition of MTHFR.

Many people can have partial blocks of methylation that are not genetically driven and thus need to be cautious about how much methylation support they take (especially if they have COMT mutations which no on ever considers on these forums from what I can tell). While others have true detrimental MTHFR, MTR, etc. SNPs that require heavy methylation support. But the treatment protocol for the latter group can be detrimental to the former group if too excessive. And in my own experience a lot of the the supposition about detox effects is just that supposition.

Potassium is important, but I found when I was overmethylated taking 3 grams in supplements (extended release KCL) and 6-7 grams in food did virtually nothing to improve my symptoms beyond raise my serum potassium levels. Also remember what really matters is the intracellular levels of potassium which no kinesologist will be able to assess, sorry.

I have since dropped the TMG and folinic acid and cut the remainder in half and am doing vastly better.

Methylation is very important, but please be cautions about overmethylation as well. The usual schtick that it is always detox is BS. Then I had detox for 2 years that never got any better and only got worse when I doubled down. It took the genetic profiling to realize I was dealing with a functional block not a genetic one. I think this is why Rich Vank
tended to be cautious about his simplified protocol for many of those suffering from CFS, while others need Freddd's more aggressive protocol since they are dealing with true genetic blockades that must be circumvented.

Good luck and God bless!

 

[Little Bluestem]

Did your kinesiologist test you for potassium chloride? I don’t know if the type would make any difference.

 

[AVA]

Hi Ava,

One reason glutamate rises with methylfolate is by conversion of histidine to a form of glutamate before it can become histamine. This is a classic sign of over methylation (really low histamine, overly high glutamate). There are of course other reasons glutamate can rise to unacceptable levels (i.e. low levels of glutamic acid decarboxylase, low levels of glutamine synthetase, dietary intake, Cystathione beta mutation, etc.). In my case I have Stiff Person Syndrome, which means my body attacks my GAD enzymes in my CNS and I have to control it with corticosteroids, hence I always have a baseline of neurological inflammation I can never exterminate entirely. To reduce glutamate levels also expunge all gluten from your diet. That is more important imo than eliminating glutamine provided it is at low levels for intestinal and muscle health (your body makes 100s of grams of glutamine on its own anyways otherwise you would waste away in no time).

How much folapro were you taking when you had problems? I know from my own experience that 800 mcg of folapro, 800 mcg of folinic acid, 5000 mcg of mb12 sublingual, 50 mg P5p and 500 mg of TMG per day were way too much and increased pain, insomnia, etc.

Only by doing genetic testing did I find I was heterozygote MTHFR A1298c. This means I have no issues making 5MTHF, but lack the control mechanism for slowing down methylation via SAMe feedback inhibition of MTHFR.

Many people can have partial blocks of methylation that are not genetically driven and thus need to be cautious about how much methylation support they take (especially if they have COMT mutations which no on ever considers on these forums from what I can tell). While others have true detrimental MTHFR, MTR, etc. SNPs that require heavy methylation support. But the treatment protocol for the latter group can be detrimental to the former group if too excessive. And in my own experience a lot of the the supposition about detox effects is just that supposition.

Potassium is important, but I found when I was overmethylated taking 3 grams in supplements (extended release KCL) and 6-7 grams in food did virtually nothing to improve my symptoms beyond raise my serum potassium levels. Also remember what really matters is the intracellular levels of potassium which no kinesologist will be able to assess, sorry.

I have since dropped the TMG and folinic acid and cut the remainder in half and am doing vastly better.

Methylation is very important, but please be cautions about overmethylation as well. The usual schtick that it is always detox is BS. Then I had detox for 2 years that never got any better and only got worse when I doubled down. It took the genetic profiling to realize I was dealing with a functional block not a genetic one. I think this is why Rich Vank
tended to be cautious about his simplified protocol for many of those suffering from CFS, while others need Freddd's more aggressive protocol since they are dealing with true genetic blockades that must be circumvented.

Good luck and God bless!

Dear dbkita, I so appreciate your articulate & detailed insight. Thank you. My instinct was that I had indeed gone into overdrive "overmethylation"......a brief conversation w/Dr. in connection to Amy Yasko's work, mentioned the "Glutamate" level being raised too high by too much FolaPro 800 mcg 2x's per day.

I had actually initiated the whole thing w/ just sublingual Methylcobalamin 1mg -2x's per day....adding FolaPro w/ 1/4 tab then 1/2 tab then 1 tab within 3 days. Then my foolish, ignorance decided to increase to (2) tabs per day = 1600mcg!

The distinction you have made re: "Partial Blocks & Genetic Mutation" is taken to heart, and instinctively seems fitting. I do agree that the theory that Detoxification is the appropriate conclusion for all is often absurd. The potassium helped symptoms for 2 days...then worse when increased frequency. I have low Gluten exposure...but none may be best as you pointed out at least with this current state of being.

The individual matters deeply in all Holistic endeavors...and the details.

I have not yet had genetic testing....but based on a desire to improve "Peripheral Neuropathy" from a ADR from 2 years ago....my research led me to discover the "Methylation Pathway" .....& how it may serve me, since I had a very long struggle with CFDIS/Fibro-Myalgia....I thought this may provide some improvement for the "peripheral nerve & overall health." Peripheral neuropathy was indeed helped the first week......then a slow manifestation of weirdness, simultaneously became increasingly apparent by 3rd week...then 4th week realized what the culprit was.

I am humbled by this experience. Yes this is a very sophisticated endeavor & the importance of using very low Dosages and advancing super slow can not be overstated. I just watched online some excellent videos by Dr. Kendal Stewart speaking to mostly mothers about this Methylation Pathway. I believe the COMT mutation is spoken about? For now My goal is to recover fully....and then get tested. I do not want to proceed without learning more about my specific blocks, mutations. I would eventually like to resume the methylcobalamin by itself as that appeared to be fine without adding the FolaPro. The NAC N-Acetyl Cysteine seems to be a help w/ symptoms, though only been 1 day. Sulfur based.....countering the the Glutamate. BTW MSM is a nightmare for me & is a methyl donor. Oh Well. No love lost there.

God Bless dbkita, & a warm Merry Christmas & continued Healing.

http://www.youtube.com/nsccharlotte link to videos of Dr, Kendal Stewert - should u care to see.

 

[AVA]

Dear dbkita, & anyone who may have some experience or insight regarding Glutamate levels being too high. I am looking for helpful supplements to try to Balance this predicament that I brought on myself by way to high dosage of Fola Pro. It has been about 10 days since I stopped taking Fola Pro & Methylcobalamin sublingual tab.
This is a just a lousy way to exist....and unable to have a decent day in this state...bloody awful. However I do trust & have faith that the remedy does exist...though understood that it will require time for this "triggered event" to be balanced.



1) Gabba - any success in calming things down ? Such as: Racing pulse, wired but tired, digestion subpar, poor sleep. 2) Taurine? 3) Methylcobalamin ok to take while taking Gabba? Happy New Year to All Ava

 

[adreno]

AVA, things that might help calm you down are potassium, magnesium, zinc, taurine, glycine, NAC, B3, B6, L-theanine. B3 gobbles up excess methyl groups. B6 helps glutamate convert to gaba.

 

[Xara]

Hi AVA,
I am a newby, barely capable of understanding what's what, so I hesitated to respond, but maybe this could be benificial to you...

In case of having taken too much methylfolate Dr Ben Lynch has mentioned, apart from the niacin you already tried, this on his website:
q
*Consider 1 to 2 capsules of 250 mg of liposomal curcumin to help quench inflammation. If one takes methylfolate before inflammation is controlled, the methylfolate will worsen it. One may consider taking 2 capsules of liposomal curcumin three times a day during times of inflammation.*
/q
Source: http://global-4-lvs-turing.opera-mi....com/Improving-Patient-Outcomes-short-ver.pdf

HTH

 

[AVA]

Thank you to Xara, & adreno for your input.
I am a newbie too, and this world of methylation is quite sophisticated & individualized. The Good Lord really does provide all we need & it is a marvel to experience how all of us thrive on these raw materials when in balance. This endeavor of restoring balance is not easy but clearly The way to go.
The B3 seems to make me feel worse, may because it was Niacin and not Niacinamide? Niacinamide contains an amino group . An amide is chemical compound containing carbonyl group (c=o) that is linked to nitrogen atom. Niacin contains organic acid group.
Potassium Potassium helped for 2 days then felt worse when tried to increase the dosage even though it was small amount.

• Last night I did try a supplemenatl spray formula that has Gabba, L Theanine, L Taurine & B6 pryidoxal 5 phosphate. It really seems to have calmed me down where I could sleep more deeply.

• I fell asleep a little earlier too, though very late. 2:00am or so,...woke at 8:30 then spray 2x's under my tongue and that allowed me to fall back in sleep 20 minutes later. Well that was a wonderful blessing. Will see how today goes using this spray. FYI : Apex Energetics Gabba -Flo (K-51) is the name of supplement. I had purchased it last year through my Chiro/Kinesiologist.

 

[AVA]

Here is a list of the ingredients for the Gabba Flo, I tried last night.
http://www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com here is the website should anyone want to try it for themselves. free shipping.
Supplement Facts:
Servings (1 spray) per container: 90
Each spray contains:
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal 5 phosphate) 1mg (50%DV)
L-Theanine 15mg
L-Taurine 2mg
Other Ingredients: purified water, glycerin, potassium sorbate, natural flavoring, Lo Han® extract, vegetable gum.
Contains NO: dairy, casein, soy, egg, artificial colors or sweeteners.


GabaFLO (K-51) from Apex Energetics is a sublingual dietary supplement that provides a unique spray delivery of L-Theanine which provides support for GABA synthesis and activity in the brain*.