MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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Seborrheic Dermatitis
- Thread starter Flo
- Start date
ahmo
Senior Member
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None any more. Mine was on face only, I think. Partly due to stress, I'm certain. Way before I had any inkling of my biochemistry.
Note that eating omega 6 fatty acids will produce Anachidonic Acid.
And stress increases it as well
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16651022
I think the cracked hands I get is neuroimmune induced as well. I will try biotin for my hands in the next week.
Thanks @Flo for posting this.
alex3619
Senior Member
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Biotin was part of my early protocol. I found it helps a small amount.
Biotin's primary role is the synthesis of native fats. For humans that would mean saturated fats and maybe some monounsaturated fats for the most part, though it might be involved in further processing of polyunsaturated fats.
I am waayyy out of date on this biochemistry. We have probably learned a lot in the decade since I last investigated this.
Biotin is also able to bind to a range of other chemicals. It might be that it binds to something on yeast or other infections and weakens the pathogen. It might also bind to molecules on our cell membrane, changing their properties and so interfering with pathogen interaction.
I want to comment on omega 3 fats before arachidonic acid. Most are unaware that omega 3 fats tend to promote inflammatory processes. The issue here is that they compete with omega 6 fats, via two different mechanisms at least, and are less inflammatory than omega 6 fats. So by having omega 6 metabolism suppressed the inflammation tendency decreases.
The balance of what arachidonic acid does in the body is dependent on many other factors, including things like nitric oxide or peroxynitrite levels. Each individual has to be assessed - there is no universal profile here. However too much arachidonic acid can be dangerous, just as too little is dangerous. The range of eicosanoids made from arachidonic acid, especially free arachidonic acid, go from blood thinning and vasodilation to severe inflammatory processes. Its the cells in the region that determine the outcome. Most of these eicosanoids have a half life of only seconds. They are local hormones, which probably means they have an effective range that is very small, maybe under a millimeter, though in fast moving blood it may be further.
Short chain omega 6 fats do not necessarily lead to arachidonic acid. A lot of it goes that way, but some goes into the PGE1 pathway, leading to vasodilation.
FInally, its worth mentioning that a lot of arachidonic acid can harm the mitochondria by creating oxidative bursts. In a chronic situation this may damage cells over time, decreasing their repair capacity. Alcohol is a known cause of this. So alcohol skin treatment might not be advisable long term.
IreneF
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I used an antifungal shampoo with ketoconazole, called Nizoral, for a long time. It kept my itchy scalp under control, but did nothing for my oily skin. Then a dermatologist prescribed spironolactone (aldactone) for hair loss, and my skin dried right up. Didn't do anything for my hair, however.
Apparently your skin's sensitivity to androgens (male hormones) stimulates oil production, which allows the growth of microbes that cause the itching and flaking.
Apparently your skin's sensitivity to androgens (male hormones) stimulates oil production, which allows the growth of microbes that cause the itching and flaking.
Hutan
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Interesting discussion.
I have recurring itchy sores on my scalp that look much like the image that @Flo posted.
http://healthool.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/itchy-bumps-on-scalp-pictures-3.jpg
although hopefully not as bad.
When I am well rested, I often don't have any sores. When I have been over doing it, I can have a lot.
My dermatologist had me try medicated scalp washes - that did little.
The latest treatment is mometasone solution, applied to the sores twice a day. It works very well provided I am diligent about applying it.
I thought it was an antibacterial treatment but looking it up now I see it is a glucocorticosteriod.
From wikipedia:
So, I'm not saying mometasone is great long-term treatment but the fact that it works might help to explain what is happening. (And if the itching is really annoying or the sores are getting widespread it might be worth a try to get relief while sorting out a nutritional approach.)
From wikipedia again:
I have recurring itchy sores on my scalp that look much like the image that @Flo posted.
http://healthool.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/itchy-bumps-on-scalp-pictures-3.jpg
although hopefully not as bad.
When I am well rested, I often don't have any sores. When I have been over doing it, I can have a lot.
My dermatologist had me try medicated scalp washes - that did little.
The latest treatment is mometasone solution, applied to the sores twice a day. It works very well provided I am diligent about applying it.
I thought it was an antibacterial treatment but looking it up now I see it is a glucocorticosteriod.
From wikipedia:
So, I'm not saying mometasone is great long-term treatment but the fact that it works might help to explain what is happening. (And if the itching is really annoying or the sores are getting widespread it might be worth a try to get relief while sorting out a nutritional approach.)
From wikipedia again:
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MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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- 8,232
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- Cornwall, UK
By 'cracked hands' do you mean the palms? I have had flaking, itching and sometimes painfully-split skin on my palms on and off for about 20 years (maybe more), but it cleared up with my dietary change plus supplements in 2012, only to return on and off recently, which I think followed administration of an antibiotic and antiviral. As my diet and supplements were aimed at the gut flora, I think that the recurrence was due to the flora being virtually wiped out by the medications. The palm dermatitis is on and off again at present. I tried topical treatments for years with no sustained improvement.
MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
- Messages
- 8,232
- Location
- Cornwall, UK
What did you find it helped with?
MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
- Messages
- 8,232
- Location
- Cornwall, UK
For interest and possible ID/advice, here is a slightly-unclear photo of the disaster zone that used to be my crowning glory. 
For interest and possible ID/advice, here is a slightly-unclear photo of the disaster zone that used to be my crowning glory.
View attachment 14721
Yes, that was like me, but on a good day.
MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
- Messages
- 8,232
- Location
- Cornwall, UK
I've decided that I am going to start biotin at a lower dose than I had stated, as I have read several Amazon reviews reporting adverse effects, and a few here too, and want to be ultra-careful. The tablets haven't arrived yet, but I'll see if they can be cut in half, and take the equivalent of less than 1 mg/1000 mcg per day.
We all have different tolerances for different things, and I for example can't tolerate d-ribose, Co-Enzyme Q10 or high-dose Vitamin D, but am fine with several other supplements that some others can't take.
Better safe than sorry, although I am impatient to cure my dermatitis (and if I can lose some fatigue that would be wonderful) but I'm not expecting miracles. I've had too many hopes dashed over the past 20+ years.
We all have different tolerances for different things, and I for example can't tolerate d-ribose, Co-Enzyme Q10 or high-dose Vitamin D, but am fine with several other supplements that some others can't take.
Better safe than sorry, although I am impatient to cure my dermatitis (and if I can lose some fatigue that would be wonderful) but I'm not expecting miracles. I've had too many hopes dashed over the past 20+ years.
I make no claims regarding the CFS, only the seb derm.
You cannot go by the reviews on Amazon because those people take it to grow hair. They are not taking it to get rid of seb derm plus some of those have multi ingredients.
Why not go by what the Mayo clinic says?
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/biotin-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20062359
No side effects up to 10mg! That is 10000mcg.
MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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- 8,232
- Location
- Cornwall, UK
As some others have said, people with ME/CFS can be especially sensitive to drugs, supplements, foods, chemicals - anything. It may be that some Amazon reviewers have ME/CFS - indeed, I have posted some reviews there and not always mentioned that I have it. I only looked at supplements with biotin as active ingredient and nothing that I recognised as dodgy.
I did some searches here and found some people reporting adverse effects at high doses, and some people advising starting very low, which is recognised as a good general rule. Here are a couple of threads:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...helmed-by-symptoms-after-adding-biotin.32294/
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/which-biotin-supplement-and-how-much.27627/
Yes I get cracks on the palms as well but mainly on the anterior side. So far I haven't had any problems with my scalp. I get dandruff about once or twice a year but that I have found is due to needing a change of shampoo and conditioner product. I feel I need a lot of variety in my diet. I haven't the bad gut that others get here. Although I do have gut problems but I think mine are more neuro toxicity upsets. Not a microbiota problem. I do have other areas though with microbiotic lining botch ups.
I thought this morning that I will start taking a B complex instead of biotin on it's own. I think I need to do a complex first to cover perhaps any problems that may occur by taking a single B own it's own. It's that sensible I wonder? I am guessing here. I will add biotin later on and see how it goes.
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alex3619
Senior Member
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- Logan, Queensland, Australia
A slight improvement in energy, but I was taking lots of other things as well. I did not notice an improvement in skin issues. However my skin issues improve when I stop taking blood pressure meds.
None of those people in those threads said they were taking it for seb derm. That is the crucial difference. I laid out the evidence fair enough, plus it fixed me. Plus the first woman had side effects from the potassium, not the biotin.
I am not saying you should start at 5000mcg, I am just saying you will not see changes till you get to at least that dose, that is what the doctor who invented the biotinidase test that is giving to infants told me personally.
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