Seborrheic Dermatitis

[MeSci]

Do you think it's responsible or ethical to recommend treatments based on SNPs when there is no research showing that the SNPs having any impact at all?

Biotin supplementation seems 'relatively safe' at up to 2.5mg/day according to Examine.com.

 

[MeSci]

Have you tried a gentle shampoo? I've had flaking since I was 13-14, within a year of being bitten by ticks on a regular basis. Dandruff shampoos, anti-fungals, etc, never helped and were always just more irritating. Using a shampoo without sodium sulfates (such as sodium laureth sulfate) or irritating oils, "perfume", etc, has helped a lot.

http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/browse/shampoo/ does a fairly good rating, though manufacturers will sometimes relabel or switch to slightly different new ingredients to avoid being flagged for problematic ingredients. Lower scores are better.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have been using natural products for many years, usually a washing-up liquid, and my hair has looked and felt great (I used to get compliments on it). I have tried a natural anti-dandruff shampoo but it doesn't help.

I suspect that my problem is systemic - possibly neurological or immunological - but/and am thinking of giving biotin a try.

 

[MeSci]

There are reports of associations between biotinidase deficiency and dermatitis and alopecia (among other things) and successful treatment here, albeit mostly in children.

This paper particularly interests me, although the oldest subjects were 18, as it refers to metabolic acidosis (which I believe I am prone to). It also refers to dosages, e.g. 10-15 mg/day.

 

[Valentijn]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have been using natural products for many years, usually a washing-up liquid, and my hair has looked and felt great (I used to get compliments on it)

They don't list the actual ingredients, they just say what it's derived from, which is a big red flag. Sodium coco sulfate is very likely the ingredient which creates the nice foam (it's much cheaper than alternatives), and is just the same as sodium lauryl sulfate. The label also doesn't say anything about being sulfate-free, which most sulfate-free shampoos will state prominently.

My flaking seems to be tied into my body-wide inflammation.

 

[MeSci]

They don't list the actual ingredients, they just say what it's derived from, which is a big red flag. Sodium coco sulfate is very likely the ingredient which creates the nice foam (it's much cheaper than alternatives), and is just the same as sodium lauryl sulfate. The label also doesn't say anything about being sulfate-free, which most sulfate-free shampoos will state prominently.

My flaking seems to be tied into my body-wide inflammation.

I've been fine with it for a long time, including as a washing-up liquid. Bio-D are a well-respected company, and this is their 'philosophy'.

Yes - it may well be that skin and hair problems arise from our general inflammation, and that this probably changes over time so that we become sensitive to things we were OK with before. But I have tried two or three natural shampoos since getting this scalp problem, and have had no success. I've spent a lot of time looking at reviews to try to find something likely to help - no luck.

I've decided to buy some biotin, and will start low and see how things go.

 

[Flo]

I've been fine with it for a long time, including as a washing-up liquid. Bio-D are a well-respected company, and this is their 'philosophy'.

Yes - it may well be that skin and hair problems arise from our general inflammation, and that this probably changes over time so that we become sensitive to things we were OK with before. But I have tried two or three natural shampoos since getting this scalp problem, and have had no success. I've spent a lot of time looking at reviews to try to find something likely to help - no luck.

I've decided to buy some biotin, and will start low and see how things go.

Great! Keep us posted! What dose will you start with?

 

[Sidereal]

I have skin flaking, hair loss and SD also. Tried taking high doses of biotin for it last year. It did help my skin but had to discontinue it after a couple of days because it made me feel worse overall.

 

[MeSci]

Great! Keep us posted! What dose will you start with?

I have bought some 10 mg tablets, so I am thinking of having one a week to start with, thus equivalent to about 1.4 mg a day.

 

[MeSci]

I have skin flaking, hair loss and SD also. Tried taking high doses of biotin for it last year. It did help my skin but had to discontinue it after a couple of days because it made me feel worse overall.

I looked at Amazon reviews for this one, and several people have reported headaches, dizziness and spots, but most reports are positive. Maybe you needed to take a lower dose?

 

[Sidereal]

I looked at Amazon reviews for this one, and several people have reported headaches, dizziness and spots, but most reports are positive. Maybe you needed to take a lower dose?

I think I was taking only 5000 mcg. But it's possible I needed to start even lower.

 

[MeSci]

I think I was taking only 5000 mcg. But it's possible I needed to start even lower.

I've looked at some Amazon reviews for that dose, and some people get headaches and/or spots at that dose too.

 

[Sidereal]

I've looked at some Amazon reviews for that dose, and some people get headaches and/or spots at that dose too.

And we can assume that ME patients are more sensitive than the general population.

 

[Flo]

​

I've been fine with it for a long time, including as a washing-up liquid. Bio-D are a well-respected company, and this is their 'philosophy'.

Yes - it may well be that skin and hair problems arise from our general inflammation, and that this probably changes over time so that we become sensitive to things we were OK with before. But I have tried two or three natural shampoos since getting this scalp problem, and have had no success. I've spent a lot of time looking at reviews to try to find something likely to help - no luck.

I've decided to buy some biotin, and will start low and see how things go.

There is no evidence that it is caused from general inflammation. It is certainly caused by an overgrowth of the malassezia yeasts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2923939/

No one is ever OK with too much of that yeast because it produces Anachiodinic Acid (an Omega 6 acid) on the skin as a waste product.

The idea why Biotin works is that it changes the lipid profile on the skin which stops feeding the yeast. Malassezia eats lipids to grow, but not just any lipids, triglycerides.
https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Malassezia_and_Human_Skin_Diseases

Note that Biotin reduces triglycerides:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16677798

We conclude that pharmacological doses of biotin decrease hypertriglyceridemia. The triglyceride-lowering effect of biotin suggests that biotin could be used in the treatment of hypertriglyceridemia.​

My skin used to feel waxy on my scalp, now it feels normal even after three days without a shower. I think that is because my skin is producing less triglycrerides.

My triggers were (Note that they all increase triglycerides):

• Stress
• Cheddar Cheese
• High Omega 6 Foods
• Wearing Hats
• Certain Alcohols (Beer mainly)

What relieved it, but did not end it, was:

• Shaving my head (Yes! Crazy bald woman!)
• Higher Omega 3 diet
• Mediation (lots)
• Frequent Showers
• Pine Tar Shampoo
• Sun Exposure

What finally ended it for me was Biotin (15000mcg) in combination with a higher omega 3 diet. Now I get by on 10000mcg unless my environment changes.

Note that things will not change unless you take pharmacological doses!

 

[Flo]

I've looked at some Amazon reviews for that dose, and some people get headaches and/or spots at that dose too.

Yes, the headaches are a marker that you wither do not need it or are taking too much at once. This is what my doctor told me who gave me my biotinidase test. There were only two times I got a headache, they were slight and they went away in a few hours. Once when I took 10000mcg at once, and another time when I took 20000mcg in a day.

If you do not need biotin, like may people who take it to "grow longer hair" (which has never been proven), yes, they will get headaches because they do not need it. But people who have biotinidase deficiency take up to 200000mcg! They get no headaches. You see, our body tells us how much we need.

Of all the vitamins you could take, Biotin is the most harmeless.

 

[Sidereal]

Of all the vitamins you could take, Biotin is the most harmeless.

In regular people but on this forum you are talking to people with an illness in which something as harmless as a vitamin supplement can cause us to crash, sometimes severely so.

 

[Flo]

Just to see the role Biotin plays:
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/fig_tab/ijo2015237f1.html

 

[Flo]

In regular people but on this forum you are talking to people with an illness in which something as harmless as a vitamin supplement can cause us to crash, sometimes severely so.

I am one of those people with ME!

Yes, go low and slow. But the people who are taking it on Amazon are not looking at their genetics, I am, and you can too. I do not take supplements blindly. I am methodical in my research and why i take what I take.

The reason I see this as a possible deficiency in ME is the role that Biotin plays as a cofactor for Pyruvate Carboxylase:
http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P11498

That gives us energy!

I have ME and went to a doctor for advice, so you are talking to a sister here! I would not recommend Biotin to someone who does not have seb derm.

 

[MeSci]

I am one of those people with ME!

Yes, go low and slow. But the people who are taking it on Amazon are not looking at their genetics, I am, and you can too. I do not take supplements blindly. I am methodical in my research and why i take what I take.

The reason I see this as a possible deficiency in ME is the role that Biotin plays as a cofactor for Pyruvate Carboxylase:
http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P11498

That gives us energy!

I have ME and went to a doctor for advice, so you are talking to a sister here! I would not recommend Biotin to someone who does not have seb derm.

Have you noticed more energy?

I'm not 100% sure that my problem is seb derm, but I can't find anything more like it. Most sites I have seen refer to seb derm as causing redness, but I haven't noticed any redness (not that it has been easy to see my own scalp when it was well-covered with hair!) - now the visible skin is white, not red, as are the flakes.

 

[Flo]

Have you noticed more energy?

I'm not 100% sure that my problem is seb derm, but I can't find anything more like it. Most sites I have seen refer to seb derm as causing redness, but I haven't noticed any redness (not that it has been easy to see my own scalp when it was well-covered with hair!) - now the visible skin is white, not red, as are the flakes.

My fatigue is gone, so yes. But it really got rid of this sort of anxious buzz I have had all my life.

To me, if you are unsure, it is best to look at the genetics. If you look at the evidence I see no harm of trying it. I have yet to find one person on this forum where biotin made them crash. At worst it did nothing.

Do you just have the flaking on the scalp or is it on the face as well. And does your scalp itch? My flakes were certainly white, but I had large scabs on my head as well at times and my face was horrid. I was a particular bad case.

These pictures are not me, but was what it looked like all the time:
http://healthool.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/itchy-bumps-on-scalp-pictures-3.jpg
http://torontodermatologycentre.com/UserFiles/Image/Seborrheic-dermatitis---1.jpg
http://www.regionalderm.com/Regional_Derm/RD_Large/Seborrheic_dermatitis3.jpg
https://www.onlinedermclinic.com/dz_images/s/e/seborrheic-dermatitis_19767667444ead8cd68cfe6.jpg

 

[MeSci]

My fatigue is gone, so yes. But it really got rid of this sort of anxious buzz I have had all my life.

To me, if you are unsure, it is best to look at the genetics. If you look at the evidence I see no harm of trying it. I have yet to find one person on this forum where biotin made them crash. At worst it did nothing.

Do you just have the flaking on the scalp or is it on the face as well. And does your scalp itch? My flakes were certainly white, but I had large scabs on my head as well at times and my face was horrid. I was a particular bad case.

These pictures are not me, but was what it looked like all the time:
http://healthool.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/itchy-bumps-on-scalp-pictures-3.jpg
http://torontodermatologycentre.com/UserFiles/Image/Seborrheic-dermatitis---1.jpg
http://www.regionalderm.com/Regional_Derm/RD_Large/Seborrheic_dermatitis3.jpg
https://www.onlinedermclinic.com/dz_images/s/e/seborrheic-dermatitis_19767667444ead8cd68cfe6.jpg

I am sure I want to try it! Just being careful, especially as I have a recent history of severe neurological issues for which I have no unequivocal diagnosis, but some worrying scan findings.

My scalp does itch on and off. I have no flaking on the face, thank goodness. I don't think I have scabs as such, just crusts.

I pretty-well got rid of my lifelong anxiety when I changed my diet in 2012.