Seborrheic Dermatitis

[MeSci]

I've been doing some more searching about info on biotin and found these:

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/313.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2722429
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/69/3/504.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

The second one seems to suggest that taking larger doses less frequently is not as good as taking smaller doses more frequently.

The first link refers to competition between biotin and alpha lipoic acid, but the only studies I have been able to find to support this are in vitro and rat studies.

 

[Flo]

I've been doing some more searching about info on biotin and found these:

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/313.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2722429
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/69/3/504.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

The second one seems to suggest that taking larger doses less frequently is not as good as taking smaller doses more frequently.

The first link refers to competition between biotin and alpha lipoic acid, but the only studies I have been able to find to support this are in vitro and rat studies.

Yes, that is what Dr. Wolf told me, that it was important to split the doses through the day.

 

[Violeta]

I found this review paper has the best explanation for unregulated epithelial cell proliferation (dermatitis included) matching to my personal observations (both for me and DH):



In the past 7 months we haven't had a single dermatitis outburst - ever since we starting eating 2 eggs daily (with well cooked whites and runny yolks for improved Biotin bioavailability). We do not eat a low carb diet since it didn't work for neither of us, but we eat gluten free, soy free, milk free and no highly processed foods. However, eating dairy always cause me to have dandruff (all dairy is rich in growth hormone). I can't leave dairy out due to both oxalate and uric acid complications.

We can't take a single B vitamin longer than 3-4 days otherwise we get funky side effect - probably causing a deficiency in another B vit and/or mineral. So I have been juggling with food the past months. What works for me doesn't work for DH and vice-versa. He needs starch in the breakfast, I need it at dinner. He likes his eggs fried in butter for dinner, I like mine boiled in the morning, and so on

@Gondwanaland , Biotin cleared up the flaking on my face, but then I ate dairy a couple of days and it came back, not to as great as an extent as before, but I wonder why dairy does that?

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland , Biotin cleared up the flaking on my face, but then I ate dairy a couple of days and it came back, not to as great as an extent as before, but I wonder why dairy does that?

My suspicion is that due to being highly insulinogenic, it promotes epithelial cell proliferation and consequently flaking. At the worst of my hyperinsulinemia the sikin on my face would flake, inflame and crack just like this. Fresh cheeses and yogurt (since I don't drink milk anymore) cause my sclap to flake. My cat gets flaky just like me from eating yogurt

 

[Violeta]

My suspicion is that due to being highly insulinogenic, it promotes epithelial cell proliferation and consequently flaking. At the worst of my hyperinsulinemia the sikin on my face would flake, inflame and crack just like this. Fresh cheeses and yogurt (since I don't drink milk anymore) cause my sclap to flake. My cat gets flaky just like me from eating yogurt

Thanks, I think I'll cut it out of my diet.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Thanks, I think I'll cut it out of my diet.

It is a catch 22, I was dairy free for 1.5 years and the only benefit I had was a clean scalp. Judging from my oxalate problems I doubt absorb calcium from vegetables properly. Eating some cheese helps me to tolerate more vegetables, coffee and dark chocolate.

 

[Violeta]

It is a catch 22, I was dairy free for 1.5 years and the only benefit I had was a clean scalp. Judging from my oxalate problems I doubt absorb calcium from vegetables properly. Eating some cheese helps me to tolerate more vegetables, coffee and dark chocolate.

Okay, that does make sense. I'll have a little bit of cheese for the nutrients. Thanks again! It's so great to have people to bounce this stuff off of.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Okay, that does make sense. I'll have a little bit of cheese for the nutrients. Thanks again! It's so great to have people to bounce this stuff off of.

Dairy is an excellent lysine source that also helps with high arginine foods

 

[Violeta]

@Gondwanaland , Biotin cleared up the flaking on my face, but then I ate dairy a couple of days and it came back, not to as great as an extent as before, but I wonder why dairy does that?

I just realized that since I got the 1000mcg capsules of biotin I'm taking a fraction of what I was taking to start out with. I'm not taking enough. I'll keep raising how much I'm taking and see if I can tolerate the dairy better.

 

[MeSci]

Just to recap for your interest, and as a warning:

I started Natrol biotin, cutting each 10,000 μg tablet into about 16, i.e. doses of about 625 μg.

No apparent effects by 5.3.16 so took another approx 625 μg. Took another approx 625 μg 8.3.16.

At the same time I was reducing 5-HTP since 25.2.16, which I had been taking at 100 mcg per day since 23.4.14.

Disaster. In hospital from 12.3.16 to 18.3.16, having been non-compos mentis since 10.3.16.

Just starting to recover, I think, but can't remember many of my log-ins yet. Not with it completely yet.

Never had anything like this before. Suspect the 5-HTP but not sure.

Disaster.

 

[AndyPandy]

Oh dear

Hope you are feeling better soon @MeSci

 

[Violeta]

Just to recap for your interest, and as a warning:

I started Natrol biotin, cutting each 10,000 μg tablet into about 16, i.e. doses of about 625 μg.

No apparent effects by 5.3.16 so took another approx 625 μg. Took another approx 625 μg 8.3.16.

At the same time I was reducing 5-HTP since 25.2.16, which I had been taking at 100 mcg per day since 23.4.14.

Disaster. In hospital from 12.3.16 to 18.3.16, having been non-compos mentis since 10.3.16.

Just starting to recover, I think, but can't remember many of my log-ins yet. Not with it completely yet.

Never had anything like this before. Suspect the 5-HTP but not sure.

Disaster.

So sorry to hear that! I hope you're feeling better today.

Do you mind if I ask if you were also taking thiamine?

 

[MeSci]

So sorry to hear that! I hope you're feeling better today.

Do you mind if I ask if you were also taking thiamine?

I am feeling very gradually better, I think, but it may be a slow process. Thank you.

I was taking about 12.5 mg thiamine mononitrate (833%), and high doses of other B's except folic acid, of which I should get plenty, having been vegan since 1985.

 

[Violeta]

I am feeling very gradually better, I think, but it may be a slow process. Thank you.

I was taking about 12.5 mg thiamine mononitrate (833%), and high doses of other B's except folic acid, of which I should get plenty, having been vegan since 1985.

Okay, I was just wondering because someone was talking about biotin helping the body to use thiamine, and then thiamine upregulation can cause some other problems. But it doesn't seem as though the quantities of thiamine or biotin would have been high enough to cause the problem that we were talking about....upregulation of Phase I liver detox inducing heme production. Have you ever had symptoms of porphyria? Universal reactor?

 

[MeSci]

Okay, I was just wondering because someone was talking about biotin helping the body to use thiamine, and then thiamine upregulation can cause some other problems. But it doesn't seem as though the quantities of thiamine or biotin would have been high enough to cause the problem that we were talking about....upregulation of Phase I liver detox inducing heme production. Have you ever had symptoms of porphyria? Universal reactor?

Porphyria? Don't think so. Universal reactor? Dunno! But I might have taken 5-HTP for too long and tried to stop too fast.

Only took 3 doses of biotin, starting 2.3.16.

 

[Violeta]

I found this as a result of wondering if the use of biotin/eggs in production of vaccines might cause something to go wrong in the body with respect to biotin.

I looked up IgM and found this:

Immunoglobulin M, or IgM for short, is a basic antibody that is produced by B cells. IgM is by far the physically largest antibody in the human circulatory system. It is the first antibody to appear in response to initial exposure to an antigen.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0042376

Biotin IgM Antibodies in Human Blood: A Previously Unknown Factor Eliciting False Results in Biotinylation-Based Immunoassays

 

[rosie26]

Porphyria? Don't think so. Universal reactor? Dunno! But I might have taken 5-HTP for too long and tried to stop too fast.

Only took 3 doses of biotin, starting 2.3.16.

From my own experience of 5-HTP, it's a powerful tablet. I had a very unpleasant experience with 5-HTP in my first year of severe. My sleep mechanism would not allow me to go to sleep, and I was such a mess. I tried 5-HTP and it was too fast acting in that it practically 'threw" me into sleep. It wasn't a slow peaceful drift off into sleep. It all happened knock-out fast but my sleep mechanism was resistant to it. And so I experienced the back and forth, being thrown into sleep and my stuffed up sleep mechanism pushed me back out again straight away. It was a quiet scary.

I hope you feel better soon, it could take a while though, as you say.

 

[MeSci]

From my own experience of 5-HTP, it's a powerful tablet. I had a very unpleasant experience with 5-HTP in my first year of severe. My sleep mechanism would not allow me to go to sleep, and I was such a mess. I tried 5-HTP and it was too fast acting in that it practically 'threw" me into sleep. It wasn't a slow peaceful drift off into sleep. It all happened knock-out fast but my sleep mechanism was resistant to it. And so I experienced the back and forth, being thrown into sleep and my stuffed up sleep mechanism pushed me back out again straight away. It was a quiet scary.

I hope you feel better soon, it could take a while though, as you say.

How much did you take?

 

[rosie26]

How much did you take?

I think I took one tablet but can't remember the dose. It was one of the early things I tried and did not record.

 

[NC360]

my scalp would scab and my face (eyebrows, forehead, cracks of nose, and cheeks)

I have seborrheic dermatitis in the exact same areas, so I will be trying to Biotin. Thanks for the information.

Note sure if it's somehow related to CFS. Anyway, here are all my symptoms:

Extreme Fatigue that becomes much greater after exertion
Brain Fog and Poor Memory
Neurally Mediated Hypotension (NMH)
Eye Sensitivity to Light
Social Anxiety, Generalized Anxiety, and Insomnia
Cold Hands
Seborrheic Dermatitis and Seasonal Allergies
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome