Reddit moderators deleting posts of people claiming they developed long covid from vaccine

[Alvin2]

We're decades in and they can't definitively diagnose ME/CFS in ANYONE.

Apples and oranges, we have had almost no money.
More has probably already been spent on long covid than all of ME/CFS history put together.

You do realize the irony there, though?

That was my intentional point

 

[Hipsman]

I feel like with current vaccine policy if this post covid from vaccine gets allot of attention, then the media and politics will start pushing the “all in mind” hypothesis to counter any possible vaccine heaitancy, witch could push post covid through ME/CFS psychosomatic path and cut off any biological research funding... I really hope I’m wrong thou...

 

[Boba]

I feel like with current vaccine policy if this post covid from vaccine gets allot of attention, then the media and politics will start pushing the “all in mind” hypothesis to counter any possible vaccine heaitancy, witch could push post covid through ME/CFS psychosomatic path and cut off any biological research funding... I really hope I’m wrong thou...

I don’t think so. They are already discussing biomarkers and blood tests for LC.

 

[Hipsman]

I don’t think so. They are already discussing biomarkers and blood tests for LC.

Yes, but long covid from vaccine haven’t been discussed much (if at all) by anti-vaxxers, researchers or media from what I understand.

 

[Marylib]

The problem is the politics of the whole thing. Some previously healthy people involved in the vaccine trial have developed neurological symptoms, such as dyautonomia's. Some previously healthy people have developed ME after other immunizations. Some survivors of infection with SARS CoV2 infections don't get well after a certain time, become known as Long Haulers and are being diagnosed with ME. Reddit can close down discussion but these people are finding each other and continuing their discussions elsewhere in an attempt to help each other.

 

[junkcrap50]

Maybe relevant. Small sample so unknown if due to vaccine or not.
Article:

Researchers studied 1,497 vaccinated health care workers at the Sheba Medical Center in Israel. Among them, only 39 got infected despite their inoculations. Of those, seven — or about 19% — developed symptoms that lasted at least six weeks, including headaches, muscle pain, loss of taste and smell and fatigue.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ause-long-covid-symptoms-small-study-suggests

Study Link:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109072

 

[Hip]

According to Dr Chia's investigations, about 1.5% of ME/CFS cases are due to a vaccination trigger. And one study found 5% of ME/CFS cases followed hepatitis B vaccine.

So the idea that a vaccination can trigger ME/CFS is not new.

If we assume that long COVID is just a form of ME/CFS, then like ME/CFS, you might expect a vaccine trigger.

I am not sure if it appropriate to call an illness triggered by a coronavirus vaccine long COVID though. It might just be regular ME/CFS.

 

[Marylib]

True. Language and labels have a way of aggravating moderators of various forums. Human beings are emotional creatures. Sick people without help and understanding are often emotionally labile. And healthy moderators get impatient when dealing with emotional lability and lack of precision language skills. The full story of long haul symptoms from this pandemic is yet to be told.

 

[Hipsman]

I am not sure if it appropriate to call an illness triggered by a coronavirus vaccine long COVID though. It might just be regular ME/CFS.

Very true. I hope they will call it ME/CFS as that would solve the potential problem I wrote above...

 

[pamojja]

Video: Long-term health issues after covid vaccination

People with long-term health issues after covid vaccination (Covid Vaccine Reactions). A Facebook group called “Covid Vaccine Victims” had 120,000 members, before it got shut down by Facebook.

https://videopress.com/embed/izH4FivO?hd=1&loop=0&autoPlay=0&permalink=1

 

[borko2100]

Video: Long-term health issues after covid vaccination

People with long-term health issues after covid vaccination (Covid Vaccine Reactions). A Facebook group called “Covid Vaccine Victims” had 120,000 members, before it got shut down by Facebook.

https://videopress.com/embed/izH4FivO?hd=1&loop=0&autoPlay=0&permalink=1

120k members and it got shut down? OK thats not right. Whether negative effects after a vaccine are placebo / coincidence or something else I dont know, but if 120k people are complaining then there must be something to it.

 

[hapl808]

That's why I'm suspicious when people say, "Oh, if enough people get it, they'll HAVE to take notice." They won't. Long Covid was likely millions of people. That's harder to ignore - although they tried for awhile. But 120k people? Probably not even a VP level decision at FB, and certainly didn't get anywhere near the C-Suite other than in a general 'disinformation' discussion.

So if only 10k people got a bad reaction to the vaccine, how are they supposed to bring attention to that? That's a minuscule number. If they complain on FB or Twitter, they will get censored for spreading misinformation. If they tell their doctor, their doctor will say they've never heard of such a thing and that's not how vaccines work. Therefore, you're mistaken on what you think happened.

It's incredibly hard to prove that a vaccine injured someone because there are very few known ways in which a vaccine could do it. Most of the population thinks anyone complaining of a 'vaccine injury' is by definition a lunatic.

 

[Abrin]

According to Dr Chia's investigations, about 1.5% of ME/CFS cases are due to a vaccination trigger. And one study found 5% of ME/CFS cases followed hepatitis B vaccine.

So the idea that a vaccination can trigger ME/CFS is not new.

If we assume that long COVID is just a form of ME/CFS, then like ME/CFS, you might expect a vaccine trigger.

I am not sure if it appropriate to call an illness triggered by a coronavirus vaccine long COVID though. It might just be regular ME/CFS.

Even though I gave it my best shot, I suck at reading medical papers so please excuse me for this stupid question.

How did they know that ME/CFS had a vaccination trigger? I mean, can one medically test for that or do you just have to go by the patient's word on it alone?

 

[Abrin]

Most of the population thinks anyone complaining of a 'vaccine injury' is by definition a lunatic.

I think that depends on what country you are in. The Canadian government has actually put aside money for a vaccine injury compensation program in regards to the COVID-19 vaccine.

 

[Hip]

I just interrogated the VAERS database, which records adverse vaccine events in the US. Anyone living in the US can submit an adverse vaccine event to VAERS, including patients, their parents, their carers, and of course doctors (doctors by law must report events).

I ran a VAERS database query asking for the number of people in the last 10 years who reported getting chronic fatigue syndrome within 7 days of a vaccination (I chose within 7 days to help ensure the ME/CFS was most likely caused by the vaccine).

Here are the results (number of people getting ME/CFS from each vaccine type):

Source: here.

You can interrogate the VAERS database here.


As you can see, the HPV vaccine comes out high for triggered ME/CFS cases. (Although I am not entirely sure that the illness some people get after the HPV vaccine is really ME/CFS, as its symptoms are a bit different).

It's hard to compare the relative risk of developing ME/CFS from these different vaccines though, because the above graph does not take into account the number of doses of the vaccine given to the US population.

For COVID, 344 million doses have been given so far in the US. Ref: here.

So out of those 344 million doses, 47 reported getting ME/CFS within 7 days of a COVID vaccine shot. So that would indicate an extremely low risk of developing ME/CFS from a COVID vaccine.


Whereas I estimate that around 4 million HPV vaccine shots will be given yearly in the US. So over 10 years (the period of time I examined in my database query), that is 40 million HPV shots in total.

Thus far fewer HPV shots have been given in the last 10 years, compared to the COVID vaccine shots. Yet HPV vaccine comes out high on the above graph. So this suggests the risk of developing an ME/CFS-like illness from an HPV vaccine shot is a lot higher than from a COVID vaccination.


Anecdotally, the hepatitis B vaccine is the one which most frequently triggers ME/CFS. But on the above graph, ME/CFS cases looks relatively low for this vaccine. But I don't think many people get the hepatitis B vaccine each year (mainly just medical workers, and gay men). So then the risk of getting ME/CFS from this vaccine is higher than the above graph suggests.

 

[Abrin]

I just interrogated the VAERS database, which records adverse vaccine events in the US. Anyone living in the US can submit an adverse vaccine event to VAERS, including patients, their parents, their carers, and of course doctors (doctors by law must report events)

I ran a VAERS database query asking for the number of people in the last 10 years who reported getting chronic fatigue syndrome within 7 days of a vaccination (I chose within 7 days to help ensure the ME/CFS was most likely caused by the vaccine).

Wow! This is fascinating. Thanks so much @Hip

 

[Hip]

How did they know that ME/CFS had a vaccination trigger? I mean, can one medically test for that or do you just have to go by the patient's word on it alone?

Presumably timing. Someone can get ME/CFS at any time, because anyone can catch one of the viruses linked to triggering ME/CFS at any time (and sometimes you can catch a virus asymptomatically, so you may not even know that you've caught one).

So if you had a vaccination, and then say 6 months later you suddenly develop ME/CFS, I would think the chances are that you caught a virus which triggered the ME/CFS, rather than being a vaccination cause.

But if you were completely healthy, and were hit with ME/CFS within days of a vaccine, that tends to look like it's the vaccine which caused it.

It's quite common for vaccination-triggered ME/CFS to appear within days of the vaccine (when I have chatted to some vaccine-triggered ME/CFS cases on this forum, some have said they were hit by ME/CFS within days of the vax).

 

[Davsey27]

That's why I'm suspicious when people say, "Oh, if enough people get it, they'll HAVE to take notice." They won't. Long Covid was likely millions of people. That's harder to ignore - although they tried for awhile. But 120k people? Probably not even a VP level decision at FB, and certainly didn't get anywhere near the C-Suite other than in a general 'disinformation' discussion.

So if only 10k people got a bad reaction to the vaccine, how are they supposed to bring attention to that? That's a minuscule number. If they complain on FB or Twitter, they will get censored for spreading misinformation. If they tell their doctor, their doctor will say they've never heard of such a thing and that's not how vaccines work. Therefore, you're mistaken on what you think happened.

It's incredibly hard to prove that a vaccine injured someone because there are very few known ways in which a vaccine could do it. Most of the population thinks anyone complaining of a 'vaccine injury' is by definition a lunatic.

I agree there are problems with this censorship movement

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

What would have happened if the world had waited a few years before using the vaccine?

Hard-ass cure for global warming and/or population expansion. Also a global depression that would last so long it would come to be regarded as normal business as usual.....

EDIT ... Typos .... I think it's my keyboard

 

[Rufous McKinney]

It's quite common for vaccination-triggered ME/CFS to appear within days of the vaccine

The VAERS data base is a compilation of self reports which recieve no further investigation.

I therefore assume these are self diagnosed ME cases, as how do you get an ME diagnosis in 7 days?