Poll: Are you going ahead with a Booster vaccination?

[bertiedog]

What was really surprising to me when l spoke to my elderly friend who believes the Covid Vaccine is poison is that she had Radiation Therapy for her breast cancer and did not hesitate to receive it even though reports says radiation damages healthly cells as well as cancer cells. She never talked about if she did any research that says as with all treatments of viruses, there will always be risks. My research found that indeed some people died from Radiation Treatment and not the cancer.

There was a doctor today talking in the Sunday Times about how she is treating a young Mum with cancer drugs that kill many cells in the body together with the strongest antibiotics that are available again drugs that can devastate her body But she has to do this in order to treat her deadly lung infection which is accompanying her cancer. The patient didn't hesitate in letting the doctors use the most potent drugs that can permanently damage her immune system and other cells too but she won't have the vaccine because she thinks it will harm her!

The doctor said she could weep for this woman but as her profession is about saving lives she still gives her the best care possible but it still tears her apart because there are so many young patients on the Covid wards fighting for their lives completely unnecessarily.

Pam

 

[Jadzhia]

Or, you can supplement B vitamins, vitamins C and D, zinc, and other nutrients to support our immune systems. Taking antihistamines and curcumin will help with side effects.

With respect, that's quite easy to say but a lot more difficult to do in practice. Yes, we can buy supplements and take them. Have you thought about how well your body absorbs what you take? Are you sure that the supplements are good quality - have you compared with other people on the same ones whether it's helping them? Have you any idea how long it takes to become replete in any nutrient? Do you take into account the other supporting nutrients/cofactors that are needed for becoming replete? For those of us already unwell, this is a real uphill struggle. I know, because I am still working towards becoming replete in B2 and a host of other nutrients, funnily enough I started back in January 2019. Plus there are other 'gotchas' like having histamine intolerance which means I cannot take Vit C nor curcumin (taking antihistamines isn't enough, DAO doesn't work for me). So just supplementing, although it sounds good on paper, isn't nearly as simple as it might appear, which isn't to say it's not worthwhile, just that it can take a long time to take effect.

Now I know my antibodies are no longer high

I wouldn't base your assessment of protection from Covid on the level of your antibodies (although it's tempting to do so). I feel this is where there really is misinformation. It is totally normal for antibody levels to contract (not 'wane', this is the wrong term used by the media and some scientists who are not virologists). Our blood is not full of all the antibodies to every virus we've ever had, or been immunised against, at very high levels. Our bodies are much smarter than that, the information is stored in memory B and T cells, which remain ready to remake antibodies at high levels (thousands of them within hours) if they encounter the same antigen again. Somehow people have gotten it into their heads that they need these high levels all the time in order to remain protected. You don't. What you need is your memory B and T cells, these are the ones that really protect you. That's something that's far harder to test for, of course, but durable T cell memory is likely even when antibody levels have contracted to a low level. Instead, we are being sold what feels like a constant push towards boosters and more boosters. Maybe this is because scientists are thinking it's just safer to keep pushing antibody levels up regardless because we're in a pandemic. The trouble is it's making people feel very anxious as they believe they are becoming unprotected over a short space of time. Hopefully the durability of memory cells will keep showing as we move forwards and this will (eventually) inform scientific opinion.

 

[dannybex]

...Plus there are other 'gotchas' like having histamine intolerance which means I cannot take Vit C nor curcumin (taking antihistamines isn't enough, DAO doesn't work for me).

Vitamin C lowers plasma histamine.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7365537/

 

[Jadzhia]

Vitamin C lowers plasma histamine.

Sorry I muddled up my answer there! Yes you're right. I have oxalate issues, Vitamin C can cause endogenous oxalate production and that happens with me. So I should have said 'I have oxalate problems which mean I can't take Vit C'. Sorry about the confusion!

 

[bertiedog]

I wouldn't base your assessment of protection from Covid on the level of your antibodies (although it's tempting to do so). I feel this is where there really is misinformation. I

The problem with your assertion is that in every country who have a double vaxed population after a period of around 6 months they see a high level of these people getting sick with Covid and this leads to a higher level of deaths again. The first country who saw this was Israel so they were the first to give boosters which then lead to a drop in cases and subsequent deaths.

UK and US have seen a similar pattern as has the majority of EU countries. Now we have a new variant which is causing concern but we don't know yet if its going to evade the vaccines only time will tell but going by the current data it does seem boosters are protective at least against Delta.

Pam

 

[Jadzhia]

The problem with your assertion is that in every country who have a double vaxed population after a period of around 6 months they see a high level of these people getting sick with Covid and this leads to a higher level of deaths again. The first country who saw this was Israel so they were the first to give boosters which then lead to a drop in cases and subsequent deaths.

UK and US have seen a similar pattern as has the majority of EU countries. Now we have a new variant which is causing concern but we don't know yet if its going to evade the vaccines only time will tell but going by the current data it does seem boosters are protective at least against Delta.

The trouble is you're trying to compare countries with different immunisation regimes. Israel (and as far as I'm aware the US) both used just a 3 week gap between first and second doses. This isn't long enough to maximise antibody response as was later discovered. The UK (controversially at the time) went for a 12 week gap. This was reduced to an 8 week gap after several months. It's possible Israelis need a booster jab to boost antibodies to the levels that we have in the UK after 2 doses. Ditto US. Add to that, the vaccines aren't giving sterilising immunity, they are at best protective but in many cases will still allow people to end up sick, but with a lower chance of dying.

 

[Learner1]

You don't. What you need is your memory B and T cells, these are the ones that really protect you.

Many patients with ME/CFS have various immune problems, making this not guaranteed. That's why the ME/CFS doctors have been very proactive about recommending the vaccine and other protective measures for the great majority of their patients. It is highly individual.

Have you thought about how well your body absorbs what you take? Are you sure that the supplements are good quality

Yes. Yes - most that I take are from Thorne Research or other similar quality brands.

you compared with other people on the same ones whether it's helping them?

This is silly. Whether or not you are absorbing something and it's benefiting you is going to be very different for me. Before I take a supplement, I look at the company's standards for purchasing and testing ingredients, and look at an lab analysis of what I am going to be taking. Thorne's supplements have been used by most major research institutions in their various nutrition studies, so I'm pretty confident they've helped others. Still, I do testing from time to time to see what is actually going on rather than just assuming that the supplements that I'm taking are the right dose or they are bringing me to a particular level..

Have you any idea how long it takes to become replete in any nutrient?

some of us have genetic mutations which give us a predisposition to being short of particular nutrients, like folate, vitamin A, tyrosine or glutathione. Testing will help one understand one's status.

Do you take into account the other supporting nutrients/cofactors that are needed for becoming replete?

Absolutely. In fact I think this is same mistake that many people make and then they say "Oh, X didn't help me" when they weren't taking the cofactors necessary for X to work.

know, because I am still working towards becoming replete in B2 and a host of other nutrients, funnily enough I started back in January 2019.

I understand that this can be frustrating, but being deficient is going to mean that certain biochemical processes are not functioning properly, so one can't just give up. Getting to a status for each nutrient within the normal range can be extremely beneficial for neurologic function, immune function, and endocrine function.

So just supplementing, although it sounds good on paper, isn't nearly as simple as it might appear, which isn't to say it's not worthwhile, just that it can take a long time to take effect

I agree, which is why we can't just depend on nutrients to protect us from COVID as some are recommending.

Plus there are other 'gotchas' like having histamine intolerance which means I cannot take Vit C nor curcumin (taking antihistamines isn't enough, DAO doesn't work for me). So just supplementing, although it sounds good on paper, isn't nearly as simple as it might appear, which isn't to say it's not worthwhile, just that it can take a long time to take effect

I have oxalate problems which mean I can't take Vit C

Oxaluria, most of the time from antibiotic use which killed off oxalate degrading bacteria in our microbiomes, is notorious for depleting nutrients even to the point of creating osteoporosis and causing severe oxidative stress. It will take a long time to deal with this problem, and nutrient needs will be significant until one can restore the gut to normal, which is nearly impossible without a fecal transplant these days.

The trouble is you're trying to compare countries with different immunisation regimes. Israel (and as far as I'm aware the US) both used just a 3 week gap between first and second doses. This isn't long enough to maximise antibody response as was later discovered. The UK (controversially at the time) went for a 12 week gap. This was reduced to an 8 week gap after several months. It's possible Israelis need a booster jab to boost antibodies to the levels that we have in the UK after 2 doses. Ditto US. Add to that, the vaccines aren't giving sterilising immunity, they are at best protective but in many cases will still allow people to end up sick, but with a lower chance of dying.

All of this means, that we should be aware of what the current science is saying about these vaccines, and that we should be proactive about protecting ourselves. In most US states currently, we are allowed to get boosters. I got one in September And my husband just did, after getting our second doses in April, and now we are looking at what this omicron variant will be. I think it is worthwhile to look at what the potential downsides are of what I'm assuming will be a series of multiple vaccines, just like we get multiple tetanus shots throughout our lives, and do what we can to mitigate them. Someone I know that has been studying this is recommending taking NAC and bicarbonate to reverse the blood clotting effects of the vaccine, and I'm not sure of this is effective, but it's worth reading everything I can about. But, as most people in my area now have decided that mask wearing is in the past, I feel a little more confident going out in public wearing my mask and being fully vaccinated.

 

[Seabreeze]

My husband and l have taken a wide range of vitamins ie Vit A, Vit C, B complex, B6, Vit E, garlic capsules and codliver oil capsules , we have taken daily for years. It did not stop us both getting Covid. Only one we didnt take till after Covid ,was Vit D. From my symptoms it appears l had the Delta Plus. l kept a diary from the first day of our symptoms and up to month that l was showing symptoms. Here is a small extract of what it was like for me who has severe M.E.
13th Sept, B told me at 7pm he feels ill. l felt his forehead, he's burning up. We both hope its only flu.
14th, B says he feels ok, no temperature.
15th, B feels unwell again. l go to bed early as starting to feel ' strange.' im wondering if we have covid.
16th l woke ok,, usual M.E symptoms. B test positive for Covid. NHS says he caught it 5 to 7 days before the 13th
17th, B has bad diarrhorea. for 24hrs. Both our temp is 100. l test positive for Covid
18th. B has loss of smell. i feel really ill, my temp 103.l cant eat and water tastes horrible.
19th B feels much better, still loss of smell. He does not lose his sense of taste.He's eating ok. My temp taken by B ,three times a day, its between 100 and 103.
20th At evening l have really bad severe diarrhorea. feel really ill.
21st. l still cant eat or drink, B says ring dr..l say ll ring tomorrow. my temp is 99.6
22nd l ring dr, told him l positive, told him l cant eat, told him iv loss of smell and taste..dr says just drinks lots of water,. says he cant giver me any prescription for Covid. As talking to him l forgot to mention my temp.
23rd to 29th my daily temp is still up and down between 99 to 104. l still cant eat and can only take sips of water. l feel really ill, the constant coughing is wearing me out. B thinks l should go to hospital, l say no unless have trouble breathing. lm still bedbound, cant wash etc.B is looking after me.
30th, l ring dr, in morning told him my temp is now 104, he says l have to get it my temp down and l must take paracetamol 4 times a day. Told him l have bad sinus headache, he said its the Covid, says Covid affects the sinus that then causes the bad head pain..l ask if l would be able to have antibiotic if gets worse,tells me he cant give me anything for it as it not bacteria sinus ,its virus. D and rest of children keeps ringing as worried for me. Told B l cant talk to them or anyone else as l feel too ill. M rings, says to hang on in their. Took 2 paracetamol..lm starting to get stomach pains. it gets severe and now nauseous. l vomit at 8pm, still stomach pains. l feel im not going to get over this, feel so ill.
30th to 7th Oct, l still cant eat and still only sips of water, temp keeps going still from 99 one day to 104. the nk.
8th Oct, weigh myself lv lost a stone. Still bad cough, B says to ring dr. l say no again unless l have trouble breathing l dont want to go into hospital.
9th to 15th still feel ill,, temp still up and down but l manage to eat l small tiny bake potato in evening, nothing else all day , no bread or anything else . B trying to get me to eat little toast, l cant
16th, l wake up and rub some lavender on fore head to help headache..my sense of smell is back. l weigh myself, lv lost 1 and 1/2 stone. l have my first cup of tea in a month.,

 

[bertiedog]

30th to 7th Oct, l still cant eat and still only sips of water, temp keeps going still from 99 one day to 104. the nk.
8th Oct, weigh myself lv lost a stone. Still bad cough, B says to ring dr. l say no again unless l have trouble breathing l dont want to go into hospital.
9th to 15th still feel ill,, temp still up and down but l manage to eat l small tiny bake potato in evening, nothing else all day , no bread or anything else . B trying to get me to eat little toast, l cant
16th, l wake up and rub some lavender on fore head to help headache..my sense of smell is back. l weigh myself, lv lost 1 and 1/2 stone. l have my first cup of tea in a month.,

Thanks for the reminder of how absolutely awful Covid can be especially if our immune system isn't great at combating viruses/infections. I am very sorry that you had to go through this and hope you will feel a lot better very soon. That weight loss certainly tells a tale of how ill you had been and must have left you extremely weak. It doesn't bear thinking about how you would have been able to cope if your husband hadn't got over it relatively quickly.

Hopefully you have got some help now as to what you can eat to help build up your body. I am definitely glad now I am going to have the booster in 3 days time so thanks again for setting out very clearly how ill one can get with Covid but without it actually killing us.

Pam

 

[Seabreeze]

thank you bertiedog for your kind message. Im so much better thank you and recovered from Covid, l dont have anymore symptoms of it and i'm eating back to normal. Yes, there was no way l could have looked after myself when l had Covid and M.E. l'm mostly bedbound anyway with my M.E but on good days l can shower ,dress etc but with Covid l was totally bedbound for the whole month.l couldnt even get up to get some water to sip ,so even though l did not have breathing problems my dr would have sent me into hospital. l was so fortunate to have had someone able to care for me. My husband had his booster 2 weeks ago, all he had for side effects was mild headache, His 2 vaccines were AZ and his booster was phizer. My booster is due February but l think they are going to bring forward all the dates. So lm trying to be extra careful about who visits us but everyone l know ie family, close friends and neighbours have had their 2 vaccines, Time will tell if those 2 vaccines and booster will be enough to help our bodies fight Covid mutations. We are convinced our other vaccines definitly stopped our Covid from getting into our lungs . My husband always wear his mask when he's out shopping but not many of the public here are wearing them anymore

 

[Jadzhia]

Many patients with ME/CFS have various immune problems, making this not guaranteed. That's why the ME/CFS doctors have been very proactive about recommending the vaccine and other protective measures for the great majority of their patients. It is highly individual.

Yes I absolutely agree with you.

This is silly. Whether or not you are absorbing something and it's benefiting you is going to be very different for me.

I might have thought it was silly too, but reconsidered when I saw it in action. I'm in a FB group for a certain protocol. People compare various core supplements and in some cases, if you have a group where most people can feel or show (via labs) a positive result, then it's possible to say that supplement does work (yes, it works for them, might not do so for me, but at least I'd know it wasn't the supplement at fault, it's me). Also in reverse, if many people don't gain any benefit from a supplement, I'd be far less likely to try it. Some manufacturers just don't make good supplements (not well-absorbed, or in combination with other minerals that block absorption). It's good to have a list you can go to in order to find this sort of info, that's where I believe pooling experiences can help.

All of this means, that we should be aware of what the current science is saying about these vaccines, and that we should be proactive about protecting ourselves. In most US states currently, we are allowed to get boosters. I got one in September And my husband just did, after getting our second doses in April, and now we are looking at what this omicron variant will be. I think it is worthwhile to look at what the potential downsides are of what I'm assuming will be a series of multiple vaccines, just like we get multiple tetanus shots throughout our lives, and do what we can to mitigate them. Someone I know that has been studying this is recommending taking NAC and bicarbonate to reverse the blood clotting effects of the vaccine, and I'm not sure of this is effective, but it's worth reading everything I can about. But, as most people in my area now have decided that mask wearing is in the past, I feel a little more confident going out in public

Indeed. The UK is going to ramp up boosters and looks like they're going to bring forward the gap between second dose and booster. Masks in public places and on transport are now mandatory again from today. Prime Minister due to speak soon. I think the govt here doesn't want to get caught out finding Omicron is going to cause problems, better safe than sorry. Probably a good idea based on the previous response at the beginning of the pandemic.

 

[Learner1]

The UK is going to ramp up boosters and looks like they're going to bring forward the gap between second dose and booster. Masks in public places and on transport are now mandatory again from today. Prime Minister due to speak soon. I think the govt here doesn't want to get caught out finding Omicron is going to cause problems, better safe than sorry. Probably a good idea based on the previous response at the beginning of the pandemic

Sounds like Omicron is already causing problems. Good to hear masks are going to be required. Hopefully they'll be able to provide info on which of the vaccines are helpful against Omicron soon, though Delta still seems to be a problem.

I'm in a FB group for a certain protocol. People compare various core supplements and in some cases, if you have a group where most people can feel or show (via labs) a positive result, then it's possible to say that supplement does work (yes, it works for them, might not do so for me, but at least I'd know it wasn't the supplement at fault, it's me). Also in reverse, if many people don't gain any benefit from a supplement, I'd be far less likely to try it. Some manufacturers just don't make good supplements (not well-absorbed, or in combination with other minerals that block absorption). It's good to have a list you can go to in order to find this sort of info, that's where I believe pooling experiences can help.

Very few supplements have an immediate positive result. Most work in one or more pathways where other cofactors are needed so results are dependent on one's status for all needed cofactors. If ones missing, a supplement ones body needs mat no to be able to be used, and the person say, "Well, it didn't work for me," when they haven't given it a fair chance by filling the pathway with all the ingredients needed.

I really don't feel that crowdsourcing reactions to supplements with other people is useful. I test yearly and have results going back 12 years - I have the same genes but I've had different infection activity, cancer, peroxynitrite production, lipid damage, mito dysfunction, heavy metal and mycotoxin activity, and different supplement plans that have caused a huge variation in how my body uses nutrients. I only take supplements that have a certain quality standard so I have confidence they work, and my tests indicate that they do. It is helpful to know is something new comes on the market or what others have found from manufacturers, like the lab testing for toxins of a supplement or the quality standards, but as for how they work in the body, it's highly individual.

There are situations where a supplement protocol can help a situation many people experience, like metal chelation, mycotoxins, or taking a group of supplements like NAC and bicarbonate to reduce coagulation markers effects of a vaccine. But again, depending upon genetics, prior nutrient status, and comorbidities, it will be individual.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Walk in clinics:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...alk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

 

[bertiedog]

So I had the Moderna booster which was a bit annoying as I was hoping it would be Pfizer again. I had checked on the MCAS Swiss site and they said from the experience of other sufferers, there were less side effects from the Pfizer one. I note that there was a substance called Trometamol in Moderna which isn't in the Pfizer one and therefore the MCAS site mentioned this was the reason they preferred the Pfizer one - this component being an "amine".

I think I have worked out that it's pretty certain "amines"are the cause of my chronic migraines so of course it's not what I wanted but as I was there with my son who was also having his booster I just wanted to get it over and done with. I have SNPs that stop me breaking down certain amines like histamine which is a possible explanation for my negative reactions to certain chemicals.

In addition to the above I had signs yesterday morning of a possible virus as I started coughing and had a very mild sore throat. Just to be sure before going to the vaccination centre I did a LFT which was negative. However today I have felt like death warmed up. Gland under my neck is up, throat a lot worse, catarrh in the back of my throat and zero energy plus keep being lightheaded. All I can do is to lie down which is very unlike me.

I guess it's a mixture of a virus plus vaccine. Needless to say I have the usual quite painful arm but that is expected.

Very unusually I have taken some extra hydrocortisone because I feel so rough (being steroid dependent). Also using the product First Defence and putting lots of drops of pure Echinacea down my throat which usually helps me to get over viruses fairly quickly though definitely doesn't feel like it eat the moment!

I should mention that the day before the vaccine I followed the advice of the MCAS site and took an antihistamine, repeating it before vaccination and again this morning plus a couple of Quercertin capsules and both these worked brilliantly yesterday as I felt very well.

Pam

 

[andyguitar]

So I had the Moderna booster which was a bit annoying as I was hoping it would be Pfizer again.

It seems like the policy now is to give people a different vaccine as a booster to the ones they first had. The idea being it will be more effective. It will need to be if the info coming out of South Africa about the Omnicron variant is correct. Looks like it can evade both acquired immunity (from a previous covid infection) and the vaccines. But they should give protection against serious illness and death.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Decided to get the moderna booster after all, mainly because if I got delta at this point I'd be pissed off if it was bad purely because I didn't get my booster.

Had a bit of a faff at te walk in centre to get the booster. After so much government advise that people should get it they tried to turn me away because A) I was 35, B) I was not quite over 6 months C) I mentioned asthma which didn't qualify me. When I mentioned ME they called the doctor. Government advise has basically said 6 months is irrelevant now, you can get it at 5 and they said that months ago. COPD illnesses always qualified so I was very confused why asthma wasn't on the list for clinically vulnerable. Bit of a shambles really, government is the issue, not the healthcare workers.

I had it on thursday 12pm. Felt very hyper after 30 minutes and that continued into the evening. Heart rate was elevated that night and my chest was tight, was taking lung fulls of air every 5 minutes. By the morning chest symptoms had gone, just a very mild cough. In the evening on Friday about 6.30 started with viral symptoms, incredibly painful and skin hurt to the touch. That only lasted a few hours but it was intense while it did. My arm started to hurt like a son of a bi***. But thismorning that's gone and my arm feels ok. All this is pretty much inline with how others felt (according to my reddit reading) in the first 72 hours.

I've got the sniffles and lots of mucous being produced in my throat. Unlike AZ which made me hyperactive for over 7 days (with an eventual crash) I am not hyperactive today 48 hours after the jab. I think this bodes well as it means I can rest if I get tired, whereas when hyper you can't really stop. So I am therefore hoping to not crash and that I can recover within the same 7 week timeframe that I had with the flu vaccine.

On s4me there is a booster thread and it seems like it's completely pot luck whether you get bad viral symptoms or a bad reaction or not. But generally speaking it's prob 50/50. So still worth getting it if you're not housebound I reckon.

(I am convinced joshua leisk protocol has lessened side effects and made any side effects much milder, for both the flu vaccine and the moderna booster.)

 

[bertiedog]

Glad to say that I am back to normal today just have a mild cold so continuing with the herbs and First Defence and salt irrigation. What a relief!

Pam

 

[godlovesatrier]

I was back to normal yesterday and felt like my energy envelope was too. I did 50% of that envelope as it was prior to jab and have crashed thankfully mildly overnight. My mouth has become extremely dry and I feel a tad disorientated with mild fatigue.

I think a few doses of the protocol will fix this. But unsure if it will fix my dry mouth. Immune system must have activated as that's what a dry mouth means when I get it.

Arm stopped hurting yesterday and no viral symptoms yesterday.

Day 4 today.

 

[EtherSpin]

There was a doctor today talking in the Sunday Times about how she is treating a young Mum with cancer drugs that kill many cells in the body together with the strongest antibiotics that are available again drugs that can devastate her body But she has to do this in order to treat her deadly lung infection which is accompanying her cancer. The patient didn't hesitate in letting the doctors use the most potent drugs that can permanently damage her immune system and other cells too but she won't have the vaccine because she thinks it will harm her!

The doctor said she could weep for this woman but as her profession is about saving lives she still gives her the best care possible but it still tears her apart because there are so many young patients on the Covid wards fighting for their lives completely unnecessarily.

Pam

all current arguments about contentious stuff aside, people are certainly treating this 1 virus differently to stuff like swine flu and treating the vaccine differently to any other vaccine ever - and I mean even the long term vax abstainers are acting as if this event never had any parallels.
unfortunately the speed and global factor and probably the country of origin suppressing some information mystified everything and soon enough politics was hindering good outcomes

 

[godlovesatrier]

Day 6 now after moderna half. Fatigue isn't great, feel drained like low oxygen or something, heart feels a bit weaker than it normally does. Heart rate is elevated like it hasn't been since I took higher doses of andrographis years ago. But chest isn't tight or in pain. But I did pick a heavy object up yesterday and was then very dizzy and weak afterwards for about 3 hours. So can't help but feel that my heart muscles are inflamed, as it doesn't quite feel the same as ME, even though ME is a factor.