Please help! potassium drop

[Kadar]

Hello everyone. I need your help very strongly. I'll try to write it short and sorry for any mistakes.

So, I started methylfolate due to MTHFR 1298 ++ 1,5year ago for my CFS. I didn't get any results except for being dependent on potassium. I tried high doses from Freddd's protocol and it was my biggest mistake. I need around 14g of K+ since then.

Recently my gastro doc prescribed lacto bifido bacteries and I started it 5 days ago. All these 5 days my potassium need increased to maybe 30g. I can't sleep because of heart palpitations until 6-7 AM and on my last doses I begin to vomit because of such amount of water. I stopped lacto bifido today and still can't have normal sleep. It's 99% because if lacto-bifido, its the only supplement which was new. My guess is these bacteries synthetise b-vitamins which I react badly to. I have no idea except for this. I think maybe I should use some antibiotic to kill this new flora. Your thoughts? Your advice is very appreciated. Nicotinic acid never worked for me. Feeling very desperate. My every potassium bottle will end in 5 days if it continues.

 

[WantedAlive]

@Kadar overdosing potassium is possibly causing your heart symptoms. The dosages you describe are very dangerous and could cause cardiac arrest, most definitely in a bolus dose.

 

[Kadar]

@Kadar overdosing potassium is possibly causing your heart symptoms. The dosages you describe are very dangerous and could cause cardiac arrest, most definitely in a bolus dose.

Thank you for reply, but potassium always helps me with palpitations. It just seems like I have high need.

 

[pamojja]

All these 5 days my potassium need increased to maybe 30g.

If that 30 grams indeed mean the elemental content of potassium compounds, than it is quite a miracle you didn`'t need the ambulance yet. Though Yanomani indeed seem to get about 9g of potassium from diet per day. And LPI indicates one could get accostomed to 18g per dose:

Safety Toxicity

Abnormally elevated serum potassium concentrations are referred to as hyperkalemia. Hyperkalemia occurs when potassium intake exceeds the capacity of the kidneys to eliminate it. Acute or chronic kidney failure, the use of potassium-sparing diuretics, and insufficient aldosterone secretion (hypoaldosteronism) may result in the accumulation of potassium due to a decreased urinary potassium excretion. Oral doses of potassium >18 g taken at one time in individuals not accustomed to high intakes may lead to severe hyperkalemia, even in those with normal kidney function (6, 50). Hyperkalemia may also result from a shift of intracellular potassium into the circulation, which may occur with the rupture of red blood cells (hemolysis) or tissue damage (e.g., trauma or severe burns). Symptoms of hyperkalemia may include tingling of the hands and feet, muscular weakness, and temporary paralysis. The most serious complication of hyperkalemia is the development of an abnormal heart rhythm (cardiac arrhythmia), which can lead to cardiac arrest (51). A meta-analysis of randomized controlled studies showed that heart rate in healthy adults was unlikely to be affected by the chronic use of supplemental potassium doses of 2 to 3 g/day (52).

See the section on Drug interactions for a discussion of the medications that increase the risk of hyperkalemia.

At least get a serum potassium test as soon as possible!

 

[pamojja]

Feeling very desperate. My every potassium bottle will end in 5 days if it continues.

Depends where you live, but here potassium citrate or bicarbonate are available over the counter in every pharmacy. Much cheaper if ordered online, of course.

 

[Kadar]

Depends where you live, but here potassium citrate or bicarbonate are available over the counter in every pharmacy. Much cheaper if ordered online, of course.

Pamojja, I tested potassium in my ordinary day when I need around 15mg of K and it was 4.09 mmol/l. Though I expected to see much lower result according to my feeling.

I meant one bottle will be finished in ~5 days with such potassium drop. Thankfully I have 3 more bottles. I never seen potassium citrate in my city's pharmacy (Russia). There are some tablets with worse form of K which can be helpful but will need massive amount. Good variants are sold only by prescription. Or has other b vitamins added (doppelherz). Thank you

 

[Kadar]

I added more calcium and magnesium to see if it helps. But I never experienced such electrolytic drop and hope it will pass away in some days

 

[junkcrap50]

Look up “hypomagnesemia induced hypokalemia”.

Magnesium deficiency can exacerbate potassium deficiency by causing potassium wasting. And you can’t replenish any potassium until you fix your magnesium deficiency.

 

[pamojja]

I never seen potassium citrate in my city's pharmacy (Russia).

Also here phamacies don't have potassium powders in stock, but usually arrive the next day. Would strongly disadvise from tablet or capsule forms, since such large doses at one spot can damage the stomach walls. That's why over-the-counter potassium in many contries is limited to 99mg per unit only. Only take powders well disolved in a glass of water.

Best powder source here: https://diacleanshop.com/calcium-kalium/

Kalium is German for potassium.

 

[PatJ]

Freddd here on PR required far less potassium (and B12) after adding lithium orotate to his supplement regime (titrating from 240mcg to 960mcg/day). He went from requiring 30mg B12 per day to 5mg; from 5 grams of supplemental potassium per day to 1.5 grams. Freddd is a bit of an odd case though due to genetics.

He talks about using lithium orotate in this post.

 

[PatJ]

Here's a comment from Freddd about B vitamins increasing potassium demand:

"Are you taking more than 20-40 mg of b1 or b2 or more than 100mg or so of b3? That can increase potassium need and folate need. The exact amounts are very approximate and may vary considerably between people."

 

[Kadar]

That's why over-the-counter potassium in many contries is limited to 99mg per unit only. Only take powders well disolved in a glass of water.

Yeah, I know about it. I use NOW potassium citrate powder from Iherb. Thats why I wrote that i begin to vomit because of high amounts of water I need to use for potassium

 

[Kadar]

Here's a comment from Freddd about B vitamins increasing potassium demand:

Thank you, I remember you posted this info on my another post. But I don't use any B vitamins now. Reaction started after using probiotic with lacto and bifido bacteries. I guess maybe it's connected with oxalate/heavy metals dumping. Because I've read oxalates are destroyed by these bacteries. and oxalates are tied with heavy metals.

And yeah, I've read Freddd's story with lithium. I tried it and had a sense it increased my potassium need. Maybe give it a try when my condition is better. I seem to have detox because of b vitamins and I don't need his amounts of b vitamins, I mean, they seem to work very strongly without lithium.

 

[Kadar]

SO..I figured it out, high amounts of copper helped me. But seems I will need it everyday now due to some detox started by probiotics which doesn't seem to stop

 

[PatJ]

high amounts of copper

I'm happy to hear you've figured it out.

Your discovery has reminded me of another comment I had saved but had forgotten about. I'll post it now in case there is something useful in it for you, or others reading this:

From NilaJones on PR:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...iency-share-your-experience.25568/post-425410

Do you, or anybody, think there may be some as-yet-undiscovered deficiency underlying the need for so much potassium?

It made a big impression on me, the last time I couldn't get enough potassium (before this current time), when somebody suggested that I try taking zinc. I took a pill, and my need for potassium dropped dramatically.

I have since had the same experience with iron, and with copper. They all cause the same symptoms for me, and all are alleviated by adding more potassium... temporarily. But when I find the real culprit, each time, I don't need such massive amounts of K anymore.

So, at least for my own body, I am now suspicious of symptoms that are alleviated by potassium.

And here's one more I found:

*Electrolytes; ME/CFS and Potassium*
From caledonia on PR:
https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...iency-share-your-experience.25568/post-425047

Low electrolytes (sodium, magnesium, potassium etc.) are due to low adrenal function. The adrenals regulate electrolytes and help hold them in the body. When the adrenals aren't working well, the electrolytes will leak out like crazy, and need almost constant replenishment.

Then when you try to restart methylation, your body will start building new cells. Interestingly, this is similar to pregnancy. Both are situations where your body will start demanding more potassium (on top of the potassium you're already losing from weak adrenals). You're "supposed" to be able to get potassium from your diet, and pregnant women are recommended to eat food sources rich in potassium.

I've tried that because my doctor wanted me to, and for whatever reason, it doesn't work for ME patients. You must take a potassium supplement to get adequate potassium. My gut is 100% now, so I don't think it's a gut issue.

At a guess, it's something at the cellular level, unique to ME patients. Yasko mentions balancing potassium, but it doesn't seem to be nearly the issue with autism patients as it is for ME patients. I haven't heard other types of methylation-illness patients complain about this either.

I would also like to mention that I'm one of the ones who doesn't do well with adrenal glandular type supplements. So the only thing I've been able to do for my adrenals is replenish the electrolytes. Now that I'm doing methylation, they need less and less supplementation, which I'm taking as a sign that function is improving. I haven't retested them yet, but they were virtually flatlined for many years - among the four worst my naturopath had ever seen.

RichVank said that this is because the adrenals are malfunctioning due to low glutathione. The glutathione is required to produce signals to make the gland work. The gland itself is fine - it just needs marching orders. So you do methylation, make more glutathione, and the adrenals start working better.

This should improve overall electrolyte status, but I assume you'll still need extra potassium until all the cells get rebuilt.

 

[Kadar]

I'll post it now in case there is something useful in it for you, or others reading this:

Thank you that you post this info many times so people can easily find it out. You told this me too, and I tried these minerals but in relatively little doses. I didn't think I will need much higher amount to work = 25mg of copper. Zinc makes things worse. Iron - didn't notice effects

 

[PatJ]

You told this me too

Brainfog is really messing with my memory. Oh well. As you kindly mentioned, posting the info in multiple places might help someone else.

Edited to add "my" memory to clarify since I left it out the first time. More brainfog in action.

 

[Kadar]

Brainfog is really messing with memory.

true true

 

[Eastman]

@Kadar

I posted the following on another thread recently.

A member resolved his suspected potassium problem involving the heart with sulbutiamine, a form of vitamin B1 or thiamine. See here.

Perhaps closer to your case, another member alleviated her heart palpitations apparently brought on by methylation treatment with allithiamine, another form of vitamin B1. See here.

Some papers on vitamin B1 deficiency and electrolyte imbalance can be found here.

In the first link in the quote, the member who resolved his problem with sulbutiamine/B1 also found that copper helped. Copper may have some effect on B1/thiamine metabolism.

The effects of copper status on thiamine metabolism in sheep fed a high sulfur diet

 

[pamojja]

I didn't think I will need much higher amount to work = 25mg of copper.

Caution about that much copper in the long run! I tryed to remedy very low zinc serum levels with increasing amounts of zinc. Above 50 mgs I followed the advise and balanced with some copper. Already 2mgs copper per day for about a year let my copper shoot levels shoot above normal. Which I haven't been able to correct fully after many more years.

At least also get serum copper tested, if taking such high doses of copper for loger times.