Perrin/lymph drainage/massage: makes sense or not?

[maddietod]

I just found this thread and would love to hear current feedback from both new and longer-ago users of this technique. Is this something I can do for myself? If an osteopath is necessary is there any consensus on average number of treatments? I pay out of pocket for all medical treatment.

Madeleine

 

[Sasha]

Hi Madeleine - just seen your post after I've got back from my first Perrin treatment. I've been doing the effleurage (lymph drainage) and hot/cold compress stuff at home for a week and have been feeling extra tired, although I haven't been sure whether that could have been a virus (but I didn't have sore throat etc. viral symptoms).

Three hours ago I went along for my first treatment and asked not to have any of the spinal manipulation stuff (which frankly scares me!). So I just had the lymph drainage massage and a bit of barely discernible skull-squashing (I think it's cranio-sacral therapy or something but I'm not convinced there's anything to it - thought it best just to shut up and let her do it for five minutes for the sake of the therapeutic relationship!).

Anyway, by the time I got home 15 minutes later I felt like I'd been hit by a truck and had to take a nap for 45 minutes. I still feel awful and very fuzzy in my thinking. I'm pleased, though - if I hadn't felt anything I'd have been disappointed because if it's going to work you're supposed to feel worse before you start feeling better. And I really feel like c**p! Hurray!

I feel much, much worse than I did doing the massage myself - the therapist does massage that's supposed to get to the deeper lymph stuff and you can't do that yourself. You're supposed to do the self-treatment three times a day (it's quick) and to see the therapist once a week, giving it at least six weeks to see if it's doing anything for you. If it is, you go for as long as you are still benefitting, I suppose, but I don't know how long that is.

My initial consultation cost 50 and each subsequent treatment session costs 35. I don't know how much it would cost in the States.

 

[maddietod]

I looked around, and there are no Perrin therapists in the US! That's what got me wondering if I could do this on myself. I hear the answer in your comment that when you work on yourself you feel OK; after this treatment, you went to bed. Have you asked exactly what kind of spinal manipulation they do? Osteopaths work very differently than chiropracters (who I won't go to). And the craniosacral work SHOULD be barely discernable, until you get to where you can feel the pulses they manipulate. I'm very curious to hear how this works for you, long-term.

 

[Live And Let Die]

I had one done here in Las Vegas. It was $60 for an hour for the first visit, $45 each additional I think. The therapist told me that I would urinate a lot after it for the rest of the day and she was right. I'd imagine I went 15-20 times from afternoon to late night. Didn't do anything for my symptoms but it was doing something for sure. I would go back more often but the prices were too high.

 

[Sasha]

I looked around, and there are no Perrin therapists in the US! That's what got me wondering if I could do this on myself. I hear the answer in your comment that when you work on yourself you feel OK; after this treatment, you went to bed. Have you asked exactly what kind of spinal manipulation they do? Osteopaths work very differently than chiropracters (who I won't go to). And the craniosacral work SHOULD be barely discernable, until you get to where you can feel the pulses they manipulate. I'm very curious to hear how this works for you, long-term.

Hi Madeleine - I don't think I explained myself very well - I found that I felt worse than usual doing the massage myself - quite a bit more tired than normal - but really knocked out by the session with the therapist (now that it's about four hours since the treatment I'm feeling somewhat better!). It may be that you could make some progress even without a therapist. Perrin's book isn't too expensive and it explains what to do.

The type of spinal manipulation is in Perrin's book - it's a mixture of high-velocity and low-velocity stuff. I'm not keen on the idea because it seems risky to me (and I did some googling on the risks when I was first considering the treatment). Also, I read on the forums somewhere (possibly this thread, too tired to look!) that lymph drainage in and of itself should be beneficial for us so I'd like to start off just with that so that I can tell whether that alone is having any effect. I don't have the impression that Perrin has tried removing bits of his therapeutic programme to see what is necessary and I'm not sure I buy into the whole package and philosophy.

 

[maddietod]

Live: How did you find the practitioner? The Perrin website shows 0 practitioners in the US. Unless I read it wrong.

Sasha: I agree with you about snap-crackle-pop adjustments; they scare me too. I'll send for the book and see where that takes me. I've done facial lymph drainage on myself to thwart sinus infections, and it's pretty amazing. So maybe this will be a useful way to help detoxification. Keep me posted!

 

[Live And Let Die]

It wasn't the exact Perrin technique. The therapist said her technique (i cant remember what it was called) is very close to Perrin. In essence it was a lympatic drainage massage. That's what I looked up.

 

[maddietod]

Gotcha! I do have an excellent massage therapist here - highly trained in all kinds of techniques - but over $100 an hour. I'll try Perrin's book....

 

[Sasha]

Gotcha! I do have an excellent massage therapist here - highly trained in all kinds of techniques - but over $100 an hour. I'll try Perrin's book....

Hi madie - after my initial consultation (which was an hour, I think), the follow-up sessions are 45 minutes, once a week. Maybe 5 minutes of that was taken up with the craniosacral thing (about which I am sceptical) and presumably some of the session would have been the spinal manipulation (which I refused) so the lymph drainage massage would probably be normally about half an hour. I wonder if you could ask for maybe half an hour for $50? If after six weeks you're not getting a response you could let it go.

 

[maddietod]

I wonder if you could ask for maybe half an hour for $50? If after six weeks you're not getting a response you could let it go.

What a good idea!

 

[Sasha]

Just wanted to offer a catch-up on how I've been doing with the Perrin technique. I had nine sessions and, disappointingly, zero results. 45 minutes after my first session, I suddenly felt as though I had been hit by a truck and it took me several days to start feeling better - I had hoped that that was the "feeling worse before improving" pattern that some people have but after a few weeks I only gradually returned to just below how I had been when I started and then started to decline. After the first session, there were no immediate effects after any of the other sessions. After nine sessions I thought I had given it a fair chance so now I've stopped.

On the plus side, the treatment has had a very good effect on an upper back problem that has given me a lot of pain in the past so for me, it wasn't money wasted. I'm continuing treatment for my back with the practitioner.

Some people, of course, have done well with the Perrin Technique but it's important to know that we don't all. Good luck to those others who are trying it!

 

[globalpilot]

Hi Anne,
Which book are you referring to ? I have swollen neck glands and the ringing and the sensitivity. I have been searching for exercises which led to this thread.

GP

(Sorry I haven't read the whole thread here.)

I've used some of the DIY Perrin techniques and noticed improvement.

For years (probably 10, and I've had CFS for 26 years) generally in both Autumn and Spring the glands in my neck get very swollen, and this seems to put pressure on the base of my skull making me feel like I've been hit about the head with a baseball bat. I get ringing in my ears and extra noise and light sensitivity. On top of the usual CFS stuff, this has always made me miserable...and it's gone on for weeks!
Last year I tried a couple of the drainage techniques detailled in the book...and while I was waiting for the book Tom kindly got me started on the basics with alternating hot and cold pack.
It worked for me, on those particular symptoms. I wasn't expecting a cure...but to have relief from the horrible pressure and associated stuff in a few days rather than weeks makes it worthwhile for me.

I like the Perrin Guy too, get a good feeling about his motivations

 

[Sasha]

Hi GP - I expect Anne is referring to the book, "The Perrin Technique", which you can get on Amazon.

 

[Gavman]

I have had plenty of bowen technique with normally good results. There is a technique that is effective for scoliosis and the diaphragm that made me feel traumatised afterwards. The practitioner suggested we continue doing it due to this reason but i decided to stop it. There is nothing wrong with making our own choices with this kind of thing. I am currently on a candida diet/anti-viral regime that when i first had cfs, i couldn't deal with it. Now i feel as though its the right path for me.

Just wanted to offer a catch-up on how I've been doing with the Perrin technique. I had nine sessions and, disappointingly, zero results. 45 minutes after my first session, I suddenly felt as though I had been hit by a truck and it took me several days to start feeling better - I had hoped that that was the "feeling worse before improving" pattern that some people have but after a few weeks I only gradually returned to just below how I had been when I started and then started to decline. After the first session, there were no immediate effects after any of the other sessions. After nine sessions I thought I had given it a fair chance so now I've stopped.

On the plus side, the treatment has had a very good effect on an upper back problem that has given me a lot of pain in the past so for me, it wasn't money wasted. I'm continuing treatment for my back with the practitioner.

Some people, of course, have done well with the Perrin Technique but it's important to know that we don't all. Good luck to those others who are trying it!

 

[sianrecovery]

Hi Sasha
I know this is an old thread, but just in case its useful - I've been treated by Ray for a year and half, and it has definitely helped. He's not a charlatan, he sincerely believes in his method, and has been using it for many years. When I started it, my symptoms got dramatically worse, then stabilised at a slightly level, and that has been my progress - slow. I never viewed the technique as a stand alone treatment, I am also working with Dr Myhill and a nutritionalist, and do lots of other stuff, yoga, meditation etc. I have had issues with my spine anyway, so maybe it was a particularly appropriate thing to try. I'm not cured; but my level of functioning is better than when I started. In the UK, the pyschiatric domination of the field is so profound, and so hostile to other interpretations, Ray is one of the people on the side of the angels saying - listen to these patients, there is something real wrong with them! Hope that is of help, sian

 

[RosieBee]

Hi Sasha,
Just seen this thread. I had treatment with Raymond Perrin over a 2 year period. It certainly helped me recover from the initial devastating crash I had with ME 20 years ago. Like Sianrecovery I did not use it as a stand alone treatment, but together with supplementation, diet and lifestyle changes and meditation/hypnotherapy and I made a very good recovery. The first two months of the Perrin technique I felt a lot worse, which I had been warned about. Then I gradually improved to be able to return to work, go skiing and back packing again. I have had a recent relapse (following hep B vaccination) but I am not having much luck with the Perrin technique this time. I do not live near Dr Perrin now, and the osteopath here that he trained did not do the full treatment properly; in addition I live alone now and have no one to help me do the daily massage essential for the technique to progress. In my opinion it was very helpful when used correctly and although I have had relapse, it has never been as bad as the first time. I hope that is helpful.

 

[leela]

Welcome RosieBee!

Thank you for posting your experience. This is great info--it's always nice to hear the patient's direct experience.
So sorry you had a relapse, but glad to know it was not as bad. Best of luck coming back from the crash, and enjoy your exploration
of the vastness that is PR.

 

[Jenny]

Piece about Perrin lymphatic drainage massage

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ht-life-ME-treatment-GPs-dont-know-about.html

Jenny

 

[Jenny]

Small study showing objective benefits from Perrin lymphatic drainage massage.

http://www.theperrinclinic.com/muscle.pdf

Jenny

 

[RosieBee]

Further to my post above; I notice that since PT even at my worst now I no longer get swollen glands.