Perrin/lymph drainage/massage: makes sense or not?

[Sasha]

Does PT involve scarey spinal manipulation?

Just realised that my local PT practitioner is a chiropractor, that thing involving sharp, violent (though controlled, hopefully) manipulations of the spine. I had that a couple of years ago on just a couple of occasions for back pain and found it terrifying and stressful. Each time I was worried I was going to end up paralysed and didn't go back for more.

And indeed, according to the article in Wikipedia, the risks include paralysis and death! I don't want to have any of that spinal manipulation.

Is this kind of thing involved in the Perrin Technique? Here's what it says on Dr Perrin's website:

The Perrin Technique is an osteopathic approach that manually stimulates the fluid motion around the brain and spinal cord. Manipulation of the spine further aids drainage of these toxins out of the cerebrospinal fluid. Massage of the soft tissues in the head, neck, back and chest direct all the toxins out of the lymphatic system and into the blood, where they are eventually detoxified in the liver.

 

[Tom]

Hi Sasha,

Chiropractor--been there done that , The Perrin method is different manipulation , not scary or painful.
Compared to a chiro it's really quite gentle .
If you find the massage being painful they'll back off to a level you're happy with.

The practitioners come from different fields , the similarity is that they all use hands on methods of treatment for whichever field they come from .

Hope this helps .

Tom

 

[Sasha]

Thanks, Tom - really pleased to hear it's gentle. I'll be sure to negotiate appropriate boundaries!

 

[helsbells]

Ray is a really nice guy but it didn't help me - No spinal corrections stuff though for ME stuff it is pretty gentle.

 

[Sasha]

Ray is a really nice guy but it didn't help me - No spinal corrections stuff though for ME stuff it is pretty gentle.

Sorry to hear you didn't get any benefit, helsbells. Helps manage my expectations! Really relieved it's gentle.

 

[IntuneJune]

Thirty years ago, I had chiropratic manipulations of the spine, the short, fast, jerky type. I felt that intuitively it was not good for my spine. I do have abnormalities of the spine.

About ten years ago, I was fortunate enough to fall into the hands literally of two very talented PTs one of whom had myofascial release education from John Barnes. Listening to the feedback I gave, they did a routine of myofascial release (MFR) and stretching. Addressing the stretching, while on my back, one held my ankles, the other my wrists, and provided one very powerful full body stretch. On my side, arm overhead and down, one pulled my arm, the other pushed opposite direction on my hip, again gently at first, but very powerful. While on my back, one grabbed my upper body and pulled in one direction, the other brought the opposite leg up and over and twisted in the opposite direction, spinal twist, again, not fast, not jerky but powerful. How to really describe this..... it's hard, but if I were taffy, they kept pulling me apart.

Over the 30 years I have been dealing with these issues, this has been the most helpful, and for self help....the pool.

 

[carolwxyz99]

So, a few questions. Pick any one(s) you like!

1. Anybody with a proper background in biomedical stuff have an opinion on whether the basic approach makes any sense?

2. That flattened spine thing: is that something that can develop in people with an illness, say, through long periods of being confined to bed? I hadn't heard that the spine could change shape in adults except through osteoporosis. If so, can it be changed back to normal? I'd be amazed if that were so but maybe I will be.

3. The above blurb mentions that he's done a couple of clinical trials (I think they might have formed part of his PhD). Does anyone know where there's a summary? I'm interested in their design quality, his results, and how he is defining ME/CFS.

4. Some of the exercises in the video on his site (shoulder rolls, marching on the spot, twisting from side to side) are identical to some I've just been given by a physio to sort my back out. Is it possible that his techniques help people with pain symptoms but for different reasons than he thinks?

Please feel free to add other questions of your own or comments on the Perrin technique or lymph massage/drainage generally!

1. Yes it does make some sense, but in my experience its something that may help but not a cure. I started it 3 years ago and got very toxic. I had to stop after a couple of months as I got appendicitis and shortly after that breast cancer so never really gave it a proper go. My osteopath felt that really he was putting osteopathy on the map. There are some things he does which are unique I believe, but some of what he does is general to osteopaths. I did, however, find doing all the exercises, massage and hot and cold packs too strenuous as I did not have anyone to help me. If you do the technique it is worth having someone to help with the massage

2. My osteopath found compression of the spine in 3 places and I do not have osteoporosis.

4. I doubt the exercises are unique. I could cope with those, but not the massage as I found massaging myself too strenuous. I am into remedial yoga (a gentle adapted form of yoga, suitable for my activity level) and I reckon that will share some of the benefits of the Perrins technique with the twisting of the spine and lymphatic drainage. There is, however, more of an emphasis on the thoracic area of the spine and the breast area in the Perrins technique than maybe what other people etc have to offer.

 

[Sasha]

Thanks, Carol, and very sorry to hear about your serious illnesses (on top of your ME). I hope you're well recovered.

Very interesting about compression of the spine - I really had no idea that was possible. Fat lot I know, obviously!

That's a good tip about the massage. I've been concerned that I won't be able to do the self-helpy bits because I'm far too easily fatigued and I don't have anyone to help me.

I'm having my consultation tomorrow but will have to have a break of several weeks before I can start on being treated by the practitioner because I have to be out of town unexpectedly. But she says that I can at least start up on the stuff she'll show me to do for myself. I just hope I'm capable of any of it!

 

[carolwxyz99]

Good luck with it. Some people use massage aids which help. Some people suggest trying to find a friend to help with massage - but one difficulty in getting help with the massage is that some of it is very personal as ones boobs are massaged - its not something you can just ask anyone to do.

One of my critisms of the technique is that I got very toxic. Just drinking lots of water was not enough and they don't give a lot of advice about other things that can help detoxing. Fortunately I've got experience of things which can help me detox. But at least the fact I felt very toxic meant the technique was doing something.

 

[Sasha]

Good luck with it. Some people use massage aids which help. Some people suggest trying to find a friend to help with massage - but one difficulty in getting help with the massage is that some of it is very personal as ones boobs are massaged - its not something you can just ask anyone to do.

One of my critisms of the technique is that I got very toxic. Just drinking lots of water was not enough and they don't give a lot of advice about other things that can help detoxing. Fortunately I've got experience of things which can help me detox. But at least the fact I felt very toxic meant the technique was doing something.

I just had my first consultation and you're right about the boobs thing! I'll be doing that myself.

I was given milk thistle tablets to help with detox. Did you try that?

 

[carolwxyz99]

I always have a supply of milk thistle just in case. I use other things too like Biocare hepguardforte and use FIR saunas, B12 etc.

 

[Cloud]

I always have a supply of milk thistle just in case. I use other things too like Biocare hepguardforte and use FIR saunas, B12 etc.

Carol is it true that the heat from the FIR will not cause crashes like other kinds of more superfiscial heat? I had to stop hot tubs on account of this problem .... Have to be really careful on hot days. For a long time had to take lukewarm showers. Much better now and curious to find out if I can tolerate the FIR

 

[carolwxyz99]

Well I don't tolerate extremes of temperature and could not tolerate a steam sauna tent (45 degrees) at all - I collapsed on the floor after one of those. I was OK with FIR, but had to build up gradually. I have a wooden box FIR sauna so can alter the temperature easily - I just started at 40 degrees for a short period and then gradually increased.

 

[helsbells]

Carol is it true that the heat from the FIR will not cause crashes like other kinds of more superfiscial heat? I had to stop hot tubs on account of this problem .... Have to be really careful on hot days. For a long time had to take lukewarm showers. Much better now and curious to find out if I can tolerate the FIR

Cloud I think it would depend. I found sauna's great for detox but terrible for dysautonomia and I don't find FIR any different from any other saunas in this respect. Hey Carol, hope your doing ok

 

[carolwxyz99]

Hey Carol, hope your doing ok

fine thanks

 

[Becca21]

Hello! I've been doing the Perrin for about 2 yrs now! its been good for me!! I'm now able to have violin lessons again im im going to do a course on Floristry! If i go with out for over 2 wks I can feel myself feeling drained!! Ive had so many probs with leaky gut and candida and tried so many different treatments and this seems to be helping alot!!

 

[Tom]

Welcome Becca21 ,
Glad the Perrin technique is helping you .

I go to Bedford for mine.

Tom

 

[Becca21]

Hiya tom!! yes glad one thing is helping!!! though reflexology and acupunture has been good too! I have mine in kent!

 

[IntuneJune]

Becca (and Tom is you have not already done so) could you please explain in your words Perrin technique and your treatments? Thanks! June

 

[Becca21]

Hi june! When you have your first treatment they check your spine and back as they say that the toxins get stuck there and it affects the legs and so on! So with every treatment they do a massage to move the toxins out as it just gets stuck there and your bodys trying to fight it off but it just goes round and round and this massage helps to move it on its way! My mum does the massage every day doesnt take too long! and you have to crack your back and drain your head!! its hard to explain lol! have you seen the book about it?!!!