Perrin/lymph drainage/massage: makes sense or not?

[Tom]

I've been on the Perrin Technique for over 3.5 years now , with slow, steady continuous improvement.
If you read other threads explaining how the brain signals ,for the different nervous systems work, and also inflammation in that part of the brain, you can see how the technique makes sense.
Perrin is dealing with all the effects ,whether the cause is viral , retroviral, mould toxin or other environmental toxins eg organophosphates.
The body is like a battlefield with no red cross to clear away the dead or wounded , they just build up and overwhelm the body and then there is the ongoing inflammation.
The technique helps clear away the dead and wounded and slowly reduces the inflammation , unless something kicks it off again.
Since picking up tips re inflamation on this site I started taking Enhansa 6 months ago , also a tip re hyperbaric breathing , now I would say I am improving on a much faster scale. (speed and improvement etc are relative to how I see things).

I recommend Enhansa along with whatever method is chosen for lymphatic drainage.

Tom

 

[Sasha]

Thanks, Tom - glad you have had improvement. Nice battlefield analogy!

 

[IntuneJune]

Tom, where does the inflammation come in? Believe me, I am NOT questioning inflammation, I have inflammation. I am wondering where in this line of thinking it FITS.

"Perrin is dealing with all the effects ,whether the cause is viral , retroviral, mould toxin or other environmental toxins eg organophosphates. The body is like a battlefield..."

Yes, that is what I believe the lymphatic system is doing.

I am not familiar with Dr. Perrin, but his work is similiar to a combo of work I have received from others and what I have been doing for myself.

Interesting.

June

 

[Tom]

June,

The inflammation can come from virus or retrovirus attacks ( just been watching Predators - the new one) or from muscle movement when they don't work properly.
Also see autopsies re inflammation of the basal root ganglia ( think thats what its called) and spinal colum etc etc. , but you can have inflamation bodywide from a variety of sources. Ice can help .

Tom

 

[Tom]

Forgot about bad bacteria in the gut, and probably more causes of inflammation.

tom

 

[illsince1977]

I reckon we do!

I saw George post something yesterday that included "dag nabit" which I have only heard in American cartoons. What does that mean?!

Definition of dag nabbit

dag nabbit

• American English has a phrase that is a play on "god damnit" by Aaron H., Jun 20 2005 (Edit definition)

Personally the lymph drainage issue being causal makes no sense to me. I've gone through countless remissions and recurrences over 33 years. When I'm in remission, I'm usually active in ways that promote lymph drainage, but still get whacked with a severe recurrence that leaves me bedridden. Lymph drainage techniques like massage, dry skin brushing, rebounding & certain supposed lymph drainage promoting remedies never seem to affect me either way, except for massage, which usually makes me feel worse.

 

[Tom]

Hi Illsince,
You wrote -Personally the lymph drainage issue being causal makes no sense to me.

It isn't the cause. The cause hasn't yet been identified.
It's a way of treating the effects of the unknown cause/s to help the body recover, it's not a cure , so whatever the cause is it will still exist .
So relapse will be a possibility.

Tom

 

[Sasha]

Definition of dag nabbit

dag nabbit

• American English has a phrase that is a play on "god damnit" by Aaron H., Jun 20 2005 (Edit definition)

• 
  
  Thanks! Mystery solved!
  
  

  Personally the lymph drainage issue being causal makes no sense to me. I've gone through countless remissions and recurrences over 33 years. When I'm in remission, I'm usually active in ways that promote lymph drainage, but still get whacked with a severe recurrence that leaves me bedridden. Lymph drainage techniques like massage, dry skin brushing, rebounding & certain supposed lymph drainage promoting remedies never seem to affect me either way, except for massage, which usually makes me feel worse.

  
  I don't find it plausible that it's causal either, only that it might be contributory to the severity of some symptoms in some cases. I'm willing to give it a shot on that basis, though - I might be in the right subset and I'd be pleased even to get a tenth of my old energy back.

 

[Tom]

Hi Sasha ,
The symptoms that I got rid off first were sound sensetivity, light sensetivity and migraines, skin sensetivity and finally smell sensetivity . "Sore throats " went first and all gone never to return within the first year, not even after over doing things . No flare up of anything and best of all -no pain.
Cognative ability and emotional stabillity have taken longer.
Energy increase was slow but steady.
This year ,January , I stopped Statins for good, followed by Omprazole (for reflux) and no more anti depressants.
I did take vegepa for a year and recently stopped these as well. The only thing I take now is Enhansa .
Enhansa is well worth checking out!!!!


Tom

 

[IntuneJune]

Yep agreed, I do not believe anyone was saying the lymph system was the cause....June

 

[Lucinda]

I would love to be rid of my sound sensitivity. It drives me nuts!!!! Lol and my family. They hate me going on at them to be quiet all the time.

I just messaged my local Perrin practitioner today over e-mail. I'm planning to give it a go.

Oh and costs vary by the way. My local practitioner charges 33 a session.

What is enhansa, Tom? And how does it help?

 

[IntuneJune]

June,

The inflammation can come from virus or retrovirus attacks ( just been watching Predators - the new one) or from muscle movement when they don't work properly.
Also see autopsies re inflammation of the basal root ganglia ( think thats what its called) and spinal colum etc etc. , but you can have inflamation bodywide from a variety of sources. Ice can help .

Tom

When I walk, I become inflamed - pain resulting. When I work out in the pool, I can work harder without resultant inflammation and I always attributed this to the fact the cooler water (87 degrees is a warm pool, but still cooler than the body) prevented the muscles overheating thus kept the inflammation from kicking in.

You stated we can have inflammation from muscle movement when the muscles do not work properly and one of the reasons the muscles move improperly is they become restricted because the fascia binds down on the muscle. Myofascial release helps correct this.

This is all SO interesting.

June

 

[Tom]

Hi Lucinda ,
Enhansa http://www.leesilsby.com/enhansamain.php

The manufacturer----lots of good info.

Enhansa is used by lots of Autistic kids with good results , neurological problems.
M.E is neurological.
Last year I read a small piece by Dr Mikovits that asked re treatment and she said curcummin , another piece I read earlier this year also mentioned curcummin as could be beneficial.

Enhansa is reckoned to be 7 to 8 times more absorbable form of curcummin.
Anti inflammatory , anti this and that as well.
Derived from Tumeric so very edible you can add it to food .
Dosage instructions on the website etc .
In the U.K I get it from mandimart.

Hi June ,
My Osteo does work on the fascia as well , she checks out my spine and assosiated movement capabilities first , works on anything that needs it , then does the Perrin massage treatment. She also showed me abdominal self treatment lymphatic massage which is greatly helping with walking. The lymphatic system goes down into the legs.

Other parts of the lymphatic system are the liver , this is the main blood purifier , lymphatic massage will give it more work to do and this is why you can feel really rough for a few days after treatment---- see milk thistle and Enhansa for help.

The gut also is part of the lymphatic system ---see stone age diet and Enhansa for help.

Finally the Spleen , which appears to be a hiding place for Xmrv , then back to the heart.

June , you could try the athletes' trick of ice baths for inflammation , I've never been that brave just used iced packs.

Tom

 

[illsince1977]

All I was trying to say when I used the word "personally" was that I, myself, never experienced any symptomatic improvement when using lymphatic drainage supplements or physical techniques that encourage drainage. I wish I had. I'm thrilled for those of you who do. It's truly wonderful when we find anything that helps us!

One other point I did not express well is what I meant when I said causal. If my symptom picture is not improved by a treatment, whether it's considered a downstream complication or the root cause, then I equate that with causal. If I'm addressing something like poor lymphatic drainage because that supposedly exacerbates my symptoms, but don't see an improvement, I conclude that poor lymphatic drainage is not exacerbating/causing/related to my symptoms. Please help me understand how this is an invalid observation. I appreciate all the enlightenment I can get!

I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble here, but I think when fellow forum members request information when contemplating embarking upon a particular therapy, especially if it's one that will further tax their limited time, energy and financial resources, they are entitled to hear from not only those who have benefitted from that therapy/technique, but also those who experienced no benefit.

Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative or negative. I'm just trying to help by introducing my perspective.

 

[Sasha]

Hi illsince - thanks for posting about your lack of improvement with the PT, I do indeed find it very helpful to hear both from those who have benefitted and those who haven't.

I have the impression we're all agreeing about the "causal" thing but I may be wrong and might have missed a post or read something wrong (apologies if so). I once had the only near-argument I'd ever had with a very good friend in which we appeared to be violently agreeing! It was most peculiar and we couldn't figure out where we were going wrong. In the end we had to agree to agree (if you see what I mean).

I'd agree that if you're getting treatment that directly addresses a mechanism that might be causing or contributing to your illness and you see no improvement then it's unlikely to be causal for either symptoms or the underlying condition. Hope I'm not starting off another violent agreement!

 

[IntuneJune]

OK

One other point I did not express well is what I meant when I said causal. If my symptom picture is not improved by a treatment, whether it's considered a downstream complication or the root cause, then I equate that with causal.:

Hi Illsince, Sorry I misunderstood you....... when I read "causal" I think the root cause and secondary circumstances (ie the lymphatic system dysfunction) a result of the root cause.

So my interpretation was very different!

I find this entire thread so interesting.

Fondly, June

 

[Cloud]

Tom, anyone....have any good links for techniques we can do alone, such as stretching, messaging, etc....for improving lymphatic drainage. I know about the re-bounder but haven't found much on other techniques.

 

[anne_likes_red]

(Sorry I haven't read the whole thread here.)

I've used some of the DIY Perrin techniques and noticed improvement.

For years (probably 10, and I've had CFS for 26 years) generally in both Autumn and Spring the glands in my neck get very swollen, and this seems to put pressure on the base of my skull making me feel like I've been hit about the head with a baseball bat. I get ringing in my ears and extra noise and light sensitivity. On top of the usual CFS stuff, this has always made me miserable...and it's gone on for weeks!
Last year I tried a couple of the drainage techniques detailled in the book...and while I was waiting for the book Tom kindly got me started on the basics with alternating hot and cold pack.
It worked for me, on those particular symptoms. I wasn't expecting a cure...but to have relief from the horrible pressure and associated stuff in a few days rather than weeks makes it worthwhile for me.

I like the Perrin Guy too, get a good feeling about his motivations

 

[IntuneJune]

Ice?????

June , you could try the athletes' trick of ice baths for inflammation , I've never been that brave just used iced packs.Tom

Ha!!!! You are kidding, right?????

When I had to place an ice pack on my postoperative foot, I had so much discomfort, I heated an herbal pack and placed it somewhere else on my body and concentrated on the nice warm heat.

 

[IntuneJune]

Hi Lucinda ,
Enhansa http://www.leesilsby.com/enhansamain.php

The manufacturer----lots of good info.

Enhansa is used by lots of Autistic kids with good results , neurological problems.
M.E is neurological.
Last year I read a small piece by Dr Mikovits that asked re treatment and she said curcummin , another piece I read earlier this year also mentioned curcummin as could be beneficial.

Enhansa is reckoned to be 7 to 8 times more absorbable form of curcummin.
Anti inflammatory , anti this and that as well.
Derived from Tumeric so very edible you can add it to food .
Dosage instructions on the website etc .In the U.K I get it from mandimart.

Hi June ,
My Osteo does work on the fascia as well , she checks out my spine and assosiated movement capabilities first , works on anything that needs it , then does the Perrin massage treatment. She also showed me abdominal self treatment lymphatic massage which is greatly helping with walking. The lymphatic system goes down into the legs.

Other parts of the lymphatic system are the liver , this is the main blood purifier , lymphatic massage will give it more work to do and this is why you can feel really rough for a few days after treatment---- see milk thistle and Enhansa for help.

The gut also is part of the lymphatic system ---see stone age diet and Enhansa for help.

Finally the Spleen , which appears to be a hiding place for Xmrv , then back to the heart.

Tom

Thank you for this information......... I have been using turmeric in cooking, surely not enough.