Oxalate Dumping - a Probiotic Solution?

[Kathevans]

@Kathevans you will have to bite the bullet and buy the Bs separately, buy empty capsules and a Chinese scale

Yes, I'm facing that reality. I'm looking into this now. I keep getting diminishing returns from that old B-Complex. Not just diminishing, but more and more negative.

And for me, an oxalate dump is very different from IBS or other forms of diarrhea. It really has a grainy, sandy look to it and settles instantly to the bottom of the bowl.

 

[alicec]

My Oxalobact order has just arrived from India. I'll start taking it today and report back but I thought I'd describe the ordering process if others want to try it

I ordered online http://omsi.in/shop/oxalobact-capsules-10-per-strip/, where I was given only one option for delivery, namely DHL. I then arranged telegraphic transfer of the money through my bank, who advised me that it could take more than a week for the money to arrive. About two weeks later I received an email from OMSI saying my order was ready to be shipped so could I please send my ID proof and prescription.

I knew that a prescription was required in India but was surprised that they wanted one for an international order so emailed back querying this, plus asking what they would accept as ID proof. They replied that these were required for DHL but if I didn't have a prescription they would ship to me through India Post. On the general information on their website they do mention India Post as well as DHL for international shipping but that option was never offered on the online checkout.

While I could have gotten a prescription from my doctor I simply couldn't be bothered and said fine ship through India Post. (This is a cheaper option than DHL so I now have a credit which I can use against future orders.) Two days later I received another email saying that the parcel was on its way and giving a tracking ID which I must say I could never get to work. I fully expected that this would be a much slower option so was very pleasantly surprised when the parcel arrived less than a week later.

The hardest part of the procedure was arranging the transfer of funds though my bank, but that is mainly because of their internal procedures.

Because the India Post option does not appear on the online check out option, next time around I'm going to email them direct, tell them what I want and ask for India Post delivery - plus claim my credit.

 

[Asklipia]

Thank you so much @alicec
Very helpful.

 

[Voxlisa]

My Oxalobact order has just arrived from India. I'll start taking it today and report back but I thought I'd describe the ordering process if others want to try it

I ordered online http://omsi.in/shop/oxalobact-capsules-10-per-strip/, where I was given only one option for delivery, namely DHL. I then arranged telegraphic transfer of the money through my bank, who advised me that it could take more than a week for the money to arrive. About two weeks later I received an email from OMSI saying my order was ready to be shipped so could I please send my ID proof and prescription.

I knew that a prescription was required in India but was surprised that they wanted one for an international order so emailed back querying this, plus asking what they would accept as ID proof. They replied that these were required for DHL but if I didn't have a prescription they would ship to me through India Post. On the general information on their website they do mention India Post as well as DHL for international shipping but that option was never offered on the online checkout.

While I could have gotten a prescription from my doctor I simply couldn't be bothered and said fine ship through India Post. (This is a cheaper option than DHL so I now have a credit which I can use against future orders.) Two days later I received another email saying that the parcel was on its way and giving a tracking ID which I must say I could never get to work. I fully expected that this would be a much slower option so was very pleasantly surprised when the parcel arrived less than a week later.

The hardest part of the procedure was arranging the transfer of funds though my bank, but that is mainly because of their internal procedures.

Because the India Post option does not appear on the online check out option, next time around I'm going to email them direct, tell them what I want and ask for India Post delivery - plus claim my credit.

New member here. Thank you so much for posting this. I am desperate to recolonize my Oxalobacter Formigenes so I am not so sick from Oxalates. Eating an extremely low oxalate diet is so difficult even though it's improved my many health issues dramatically.

If I may ask how long do you plan on taking Oxalobact? I understand it is not easy to recolonize in the gut.

Thank you again.

 

[alicec]

If I may ask how long do you plan on taking Oxalobact?

Probably forever.

 

[slysaint]

Are you sure that this product is genuine?

 

[Asklipia]

Are you sure that this product is genuine?

Proof will be in the pudding.
Why? You have some to sell?

 

[Violeta]

Susan Owens used to say there was someone in the USA formulating and then testing one, but they gave up on it. I never found out why, maybe someone who goes to her forum could ask.

 

[Voxlisa]

Probably forever.

Ha! That's what I was thinking. Thanks!

 

[Avengers26]

Does oxalobacter formigenes show up in the ubiome test? I am curious because mine doesn't show it.

 

[alicec]

Are you sure that this product is genuine?

If you mean does it contain what it says it does, well that is a difficult thing to know. Probiotic preparations are notorious for not containing what they say they do but I don't think the Indian pharmaceutical industry is any more or less reliable than its European and Nth American counterparts. Indeed they have done some admirable things like opting out of the game that seeks to charge the maximum possible for drugs, instead trying to produce ones that are more affordable. Certainly many of the generic drugs that are now sold worldwide originate in India.

If it were a Chinese product I would be much more sceptical - they do have a bad track record.

If you mean do we know it will work, well no, but then the recommendations that promote products like VSL3 for helping to deal with oxalate accumulation are based on deductions arising from small amounts of evidence. That same process would suggest that this is a much better option since O. formigenes requires oxalates as its energy source while Lactobacillus and Bifido strains that can digest oxalate don't do it preferentially.

And what is the alternative? There has been no news of the Swedish product that was given orphan drug status by the FDA and which was in phase II clinical trials. Presumably results were equivocal. However they were looking at kidney stone prevention and maybe they were asking too much of the product.

I just want something to add into a mix of measures that are likely to help and am willing to take a punt.

 

[alicec]

Susan Owens used to say there was someone in the USA formulating and then testing one, but they gave up on it. I never found out why, maybe someone who goes to her forum could ask.

I've only heard talk there of the Swedish Oxthera product for which there is no recent news.

 

[alicec]

Does oxalobacter formigenes show up in the ubiome test? I am curious because mine doesn't show it.

It would if present in amounts above a certain threshold. I have had two uBiome tests which didn't detect any but it did show up on a Genova GI Effects test. I presume this is a result of technical issues. uBiome is trying to sequence all DNA for16 S rRNA but the Genova test used PCR to specifically amplify O formigenes DNA. Putting the two results together suggests that I do have extremely low levels present, not enough to actually do anything useful, but hopefully one day this could be expanded.

 

[alicec]

I took one Oxalobact yesterday and already have something to report, though I suspect it is caused by the FOS in the preparation rather than the probiotics.

When discussion of these Indian probiotics first came up several months ago I felt I was making progress with my sensitivity to prebiotics and thought I could probably cope with 100 mg FOS.

Since then I've been through a bad patch and stopped all prebiotics other than food to see if it would help. There didn't seem to be any obvious connection though I have gradually started to emerge from the brain fog and lethargy. When I tried reintroducing small amounts of prebiotics that I had tolerated previously I found they were no longer tolerable.

I must say when I took the Oxalobact I had forgotten about the FOS, however my disturbed sleep last night and the odd feeling in my head this morning suggests that I have reacted to it. It is not intolerable and I feel quite reasonable, but I think I will need to be very cautious with this preparation.

 

[Avengers26]

@alicec Thanks. That's good to know. I guess, for the same reason, there are other bacteria too, that don't show up in the ubiome test.

 

[slysaint]

No I dont have any to sell! By genuine I meant does it actually contain OF as everything I've read so far would indicate that OF is not currently available. The only alternative products I've found(but not tried), are Vsl 3 and Bacid, but cannot find exactly what these contain but suspect it is only b-lactis and l-acidopholus.

 

[Asklipia]

No I dont have any to sell! By genuine I meant does it actually contain OF as everything I've read so far would indicate that OF is not currently available. The only alternative products I've found(but not tried), are Vsl 3 and Bacid, but cannot find exactly what these contain but suspect it is only b-lactis and l-acidopholus.

Nice try.
Oxalobact has been available since at least March 2011.

 

[Avengers26]

@Asklipia I might have missed it but have you already been using oxalobact & if so, any feedback? Thanks.

 

[Asklipia]

@Asklipia I might have missed it but have you already been using oxalobact & if so, any feedback? Thanks.

I did not get any yet.

 

[Dreambirdie]

An OAT test from Great Plains Laboratory might be more useful. It measures glyoxalate and glycerate as well as oxalate. Together these might give some insight into endogenous oxalate production which may well be making the greatest contribution of all. In addition other markers for things like B6, B1 and biotin dependant metabolism as well as antioxidant status might help to round out a picture of derangement of metabolism which is likely to be associated with endogenous oxalate production.

Here is some of the info they provide about the test.http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/oxalates.asp

The situation is far more complex than this and many things contribute to oxalate appearing in urine. Here's one paper that looks at some of it . http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2518810/ The contribution from dumping of oxalate from storage is probably the least understood aspect of it.

That figure sounds wildly exaggerated. As the paper above canvases, studies of dietary contribution estimate 10-40% with larger studies, such as that one, tending much more to the lower end. In other words there is certainly some variation caused by diet but it is not great.

You might just decide to try some of the recommendations of the low-oxalate group and see if it makes any difference to the muscle pain - see http://www.lowoxalate.info/ and the associated Yahoo Group, trying low oxalates. The recommendations include a low-med oxalate diet, probiotics such as VSL-3 to help digest oxalate and encourage dumping of oxalate stores, attention to leaky gut since this can be a major contributer, calcium or magnesium salts before meals to absorb dietary oxalates, gradual increase in B6 consumption, gradual increase in antioxidant intake. If these two latter interventions provoke oxalate dumping this is a very good indication that you have oxalate issues.

The GPL OAT might then give some insight into how serious a problem this could be, but there is no guarantee. There is just too much that is not understood about the whole thing.

Hi @alicec This is a great bunch of recommendations to sort out the problem. I don't think I have an oxalate issue, but in case I ever feel a need to investigate it, I want to save notes from this post.

One note: VSL-3 contains dairy (no matter what they say about it being removed at some stage of the manufacture of it), and I have never tolerated cow dairy at all. So I prefer this probiotic (50 billion live cultures with 10 strains, and enteric coated, which is very important--so stomach acid does not destroy the contents). It has proven to work very well for me: http://www.iherb.com/Renew-Life-Ultimate-Flora-Critical-Care-50-Billion-30-Veggie-Caps/7157

And one question: where is the LIST of high oxalate foods that you mentioned back a few pages. It would be great if you could post that or provide a link.