Oxalate Dumping - a Probiotic Solution?

[Oci]

I know exactly how you feel. I am even back to eating nuts, seeds and chocolate daily
Yesterday and today I took Maca, despite having a slight worsening in my ankle joints this morning. And about 2 hours after my Maca today I felt discomfort at the right ureter
I don't always take the oxalate degrading probx because the Lactate-free probx help me sleep better, so I alternate them.

why are we storing oxalates? Is everyone? Why is one person an endogenous producer and another not? indeed
I think there is a fungal connection.

it sounds like we are doing similar things...ie chocolate, nuts on occasion.
I took 1/4 VSL#3 packet last night and eyes are a tad itchy today. I will need to look up other oxalate degrading probx.
Interesting about sleep and lactate-free Probx.
I'm finding that different Probx have very different effects! With so many other variables, it is sometimes hard to determine, however.

As for the fungal connection, I have had problems with the yeastie beasties off and on for many many years. I am wondering why? Digestion markers were good on last CDSA test but I know digestion does suffer with stress. Perhaps I am diabetic or pre-diabetic? I did have gestational diabetes with my 4th pregnancy. And my babies were big....both signs of predisposition to diabetes. However, the last HbA1c test was very good. My SIgA is low which means, I think, that my body is not recognizing the yeast and therefore not mounting a defense. I rarely get sick but have had cancer. So, there are some problems in my immune system. I have the feeling that if I could keep yeast very low and heal possible leaky gut that the presumed oxalate problem would go away.

If we are endogenous producers, then dumping will continue until underlying problem is corrected. Most people do not seem to have oxalate problems. Its all very frustrating!

 

[alicec]

I am interested in the Ubiome but I am not sure what tests I would most benefit from. Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated. I had 2+ Candida and 4+ enterobacter cloacae (dysbiotic) back in early June. Testing is expensive!

The uBiome tests do give a much better big picture of the gut than the older culture based tests like CSDA. However it is not easy to interpret the results - you have to work hard at it, even harder than trying to understand 23andme results and at this stage we don't know what a lot of the information generated means.

There seems to be little correlation with results obtained by DNA sequencing and by culture. It's not even that the culture-based tests miss all of the strict anaerobes and only select for a few species that culture well. In my tests most of the cultured species didn't even register in terms of DNA, ie they must have been present at an extremely low level. So I no longer have much confidence at all in culture based tests.

 

[alicec]

I do not know when these tables were published but since then there must be more information available.

I think they are very old and were not at all exhaustive - there was a limited amount of money available for testing. I often think of searching for newer information but don't actually do it!

 

[alicec]

why are we storing oxalates? Is everyone? Why is one person an endogenous producer and another not?
I wonder if any OAT tests from Great Plains come back without an oxalate load?

I imagine a lot of people with chronic illnesses might start storing oxalates. Maybe the biggest single factor in becoming an endogenous producer is chronic oxidative stress which disables the enzymes involved in processing oxalate precursors down a harmless pathway.

There are many other things that can add to an oxalate load such as the fungi which @Gondwanaland has cited, but it is how these are then handled that is really the issue. Unfortunately once the accumulation starts it can become self-perpetuating.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Asklipia @alicec Someone I know is going to India in one week from now to spend 2 weeks there. I hope I can arrange for him to bring me back some probiotics, but I suppose he will have to buy it locally since the online stores only take bank transfers as Alice reported. Perhaps some hotel clerk would be able to help him?

I am looking at this page
http://www.medplusmart.com/product/OCHEK-CAPSULE/OCHE0001
and I see 3 probiotic options almost identical, except that the last one is in tablet form

1) OCHEK CAPSULE (LA RENON)
Comp: Bifidobacterium bifidum 300 Million Spores+Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) 100 MG+Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 Million Spores+Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 Million Spores+Oxalobacter formigenes 700 Million Spores
Form: CAPSULE
Pack Size: 10 (Units)
MRP (per pack) : Rs. 120,00

2) NEFROPIK CAPSULE (BIONIC REMEDIES)
Comp: Bifidobacterium bifidum 300 Million Spores+Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) 100 MG+Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 Million Spores+Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 Million Spores+Oxalobacter formigenes 700 Million Spores
Form: CAPSULE
Pack Size: 10 (Units)
MRP (per pack) : Rs. 120,00

3) OXALOBACT TABLET (FOURTS)
Comp: Bifidobacterium bifidum 300 Million Spores+Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) 100 MG+Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 Million Spores+Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 Million Spores+Oxalobacter formigenes 700 Million Spores
Form: TABLET
Pack Size: 10 (Units)
MRP (per pack) : Rs. 115,00

I see you ladies picked the 1st option. How does the package looks like? Each package contains only 10 capsules so one should have to buy several of them? Do you have additional updates about its effects?

Also this person is going to Canada before coming back to South America, and I think it was @JPV who mentioned a Canadian probiotic? What was it again?

 

[Asklipia]

@Gondwanaland, The Oxalobact is more commonly found. The three products seem to be identical.
It is possible to find it in a normal big chemist shop. No need for a prescription. It comes in strips of ten, because people are not able to buy a big amount of medicines at one time. If you buy several strips and the chemist does not have enough, he can phone other chemists in the area to fulfill your order. Good luck.
For the moment it did not arrive so I have nothing to report!

The need for a prescription is for courier use only, this is not a restricted medicine. When buying online you need the prescription only if you want it sent by DHL international.

 

[Oci]

@Asklipia @alicec Someone I know is going to India in one week from now to spend 2 weeks there. I hope I can arrange for him to bring me back some probiotics, but I suppose he will have to buy it locally since the online stores only take bank transfers as Alice reported. Perhaps some hotel clerk would be able to help him?

I am looking at this page
http://www.medplusmart.com/product/OCHEK-CAPSULE/OCHE0001
and I see 3 probiotic options almost identical, except that the last one is in tablet form

1) OCHEK CAPSULE (LA RENON)
Comp: Bifidobacterium bifidum 300 Million Spores+Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) 100 MG+Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 Million Spores+Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 Million Spores+Oxalobacter formigenes 700 Million Spores
Form: CAPSULE
Pack Size: 10 (Units)
MRP (per pack) : Rs. 120,00

2) NEFROPIK CAPSULE (BIONIC REMEDIES)
Comp: Bifidobacterium bifidum 300 Million Spores+Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) 100 MG+Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 Million Spores+Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 Million Spores+Oxalobacter formigenes 700 Million Spores
Form: CAPSULE
Pack Size: 10 (Units)
MRP (per pack) : Rs. 120,00

3) OXALOBACT TABLET (FOURTS)
Comp: Bifidobacterium bifidum 300 Million Spores+Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) 100 MG+Lactobacillus acidophilus 400 Million Spores+Lactobacillus rhamnosus 300 Million Spores+Oxalobacter formigenes 700 Million Spores
Form: TABLET
Pack Size: 10 (Units)
MRP (per pack) : Rs. 115,00

I see you ladies picked the 1st option. How does the package looks like? Each package contains only 10 capsules so one should have to buy several of them? Do you have additional updates about its effects?

Also this person is going to Canada before coming back to South America, and I think it was @JPV who mentioned a Canadian probiotic? What was it again?

It is Mutaflor. I found 2 places near Toronto that have it. One place will not have it after Aug31 as the company has changed hands and apparently the new company does not have refrigeration....so the woman on the phone tells me.

The other does not say anything about Aug 31 but I haven't called yet to check. First place is 45 min away and I may go on Monday to pick up as I am going away on Tuesday. Last chance!

Or if the second place will continue to sell I will order from them...they are an hour away.

Will your friends be in the Toronto area? Or? I can send links tonight but am off to meet up with family just now.


Would they be willing to bring some Oxalobacter to me?

 

[Gondwanaland]

It is Mutaflor.

I thought this one was a German probiotic???

Will your friends be in the Toronto area?

Montreal

Would they be willing to bring some Oxalobacter to me?

I wil ask... I let you know.

 

[alicec]

I see you ladies picked the 1st option

No option 3 simply because that was the only one offered by the online chemist. As @Asklipia notes they are all the same.

No further update - still haven't increased to a significant dose, am working out some other things.

 

[Oci]

How would they keep the Oxalobacter cold all that time? And then the Mutaflor? There is also an interesting probiotic from Germany. Sym

I thought this one was a German probiotic???

Montreal

I wil ask... I let you know.

Mutaflor is available in Canada. But only will ship within Canada
1) http://mutaflor.ca/ but only until Aug 31
2) http://www.amazon.ca/s/?ie=UTF8&key...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_7ucg535khg_b
3) http://www.feelgoodnatural.com/heal...-AND-QUEBEC-REQUIRE-EXPRESS-SHIPPING/MUTAFLOR
4) http://stuccu.ca/s/Mutaflor-MbSLsTI...c62d904fac77&gclid=CNqG-JKZwMcCFQiDaQod9qYNcw

I think I should get some before the supply dries up!

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Oci AFAIK Oxalobacter doesn't need refrigeration
If you try Mutaflor please repor your impressions, oops never mind, it's out of my price range

 

[Oci]

@Oci AFAIK Oxalobacter doesn't need refrigeration
If you try Mutaflor please repor your impressions, oops never mind, it's out of my price range

Yes, it is very expensive but Dr Myhill in England gives instructions on how you can use it in yogurt and I think keep the bacteria going.
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Growing_Mutaflor

In searching PR, I found this statement by Curry back in 2010. Not sure if there is any basis for it but found it interesting especially since I have low SIgA and chronic bugs and/or candida.

There are different type of probiotics:

- Lactic acid bacteria probiotics, which build the protective flora in the gut and heal the leaky gut wall - VSL-3 is the best product.
- Probiotics which don't colonise the gut, but train the defense of the gut - Mutaflor (Escherichia Coli) or Symbioflor (Enterococci).

So if you'd like to train your gut associated immune system, build the gut flora and heal the leaky intestinal wall, take both type, this may help.

And btw, yes it will take ages until the lactic acid bacteria will colonise in your gut. The most cost-saving way is if you cultivate your own probiotics at home.

 

[Oci]

Mutaflor does need refrigeration although it is good for about 3 days.

 

[Gondwanaland]

The most cost-saving way is if you cultivate your own probiotics at home.

Unfortunately I can't eat dairy continuously, I cycle my consumption. I am not sure about autimmune reactions, but the dandruff it causes me was enough to keep me away from it for two years. But oxalate-wise I feel much better eating dairy daily.

 

[Oci]

Unfortunately I can't eat dairy continuously, I cycle my consumption. I am not sure about autimmune reactions, but the dandruff it causes me was enough to keep me away from it for two years. But oxalate-wise I feel much better eating dairy daily.

I have a casein allergy. Urrrggghhh. I do eat a bit of goat cheese anyway but know it is not the best for me. I crave it.
Anyway, apparently Dr Myhill gives recipe for making yogurt with soy milk (bad in my books) or coconut milk. I have not tried.

 

[Oci]

Besides some rave reviews of Mutaflor I am interested as my e coli is low. I am also interested in Symbioflor (also from Germany) for my NG enterococcus.

At the time the DD CDSA test was done in June I was eating low carb. I had also used MCT oil and low carb over the winter a lot. MCT (caprylic and capric acids) I now believe probably killed off some good bacteria.

 

[Oci]

With all this talk on probiotics, I have been wondering about Kefir and what bacteria it contains. Also Kombucha tea and other fermented foods?

Since I have a dairy (casein) allergy, I would need to try to make the kefir with coconut milk.

Any thoughts/experiences on kefir?

Here is one link. http://www.culturedfoodlife.com/which-is-better-water-kefir-or-milk-kefir/

 

[Gondwanaland]

With all this talk on probiotics, I have been wondering about Kefir and what bacteria it contains. Also Kombucha tea and other fermented foods?

Since I have a dairy (casein) allergy, I would need to try to make the kefir with coconut milk.

Any thoughts/experiences on kefir?

Here is one link. http://www.culturedfoodlife.com/which-is-better-water-kefir-or-milk-kefir/

I didn't do well on water kefir - excess histamines

 

[Oci]

Great info! This is the kind of thing that I need to know. I have to assume that water kefir contains histamine producing bacteria. Histamines are a problem for me too. Are you bothered by VSL#3? I seem to be.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Great info! This is the kind of thing that I need to know. I have to assume that water kefir contains histamine producing bacteria. Histamines are a problem for me too. Are you bothered by VSL#3? I seem to be.

I don't have access to VSL#3