Non-Standard Anti-Anxiety Treatment

[frozenborderline]

Not Soviet, but still similarly rooted in local/regional science and ethno botanical stuff, and gabaergic. Just learned about gaboxadol.. from an episode of hamiltons pharmacopeia

I recommend everyone here watch that episode. From season 2, iits the one about mushrooms in thecarpathian, specifically amanita muscaria. Scientists worked on derivatives of the main active compounds until they found gaboxadol, a good hypnotic /sedative, with perhaps fewer side effects and deeper sleep than others? It's a gaba A agonist. In higher doses it can maybe produce hallucinations.

The compounds in amenity muscaria that its derived from are more along the lines of anticholinergic deliriants or gabaergic intoxicant/dissociatives.. but the gaboxadol Is quite an interesting discovery and I don't know why it's not used more

 

[Hip]

gaboxadol Is quite an interesting discovery and I don't know why it's not used more

This appears to be the reason clinical trials were abandoned:

Common side effects include headache, nausea and vomiting, somnolence, and fatigue. Gaboxadol has also been associated with dissociative reactions including hallucinations and disorientation, which have led to suspension of clinical studies in the United States.

 

[frozenborderline]

This appears to be the reason clinical trials were abandoned:

It doesn't seem quite that simple, I think This excellent article by Hamilton Morris suggested study populations were often very ill or schizophrenic to start with and besides, that it didn't find its niche until late... it may not be good anti anxiety drug but may be a safer and better hypnotic than benzos and a drugs
.. excellent for sleep at the right dose.
In fact if I can find a source for it I will certainly try it.

 

[Hip]

This excellent article by Hamilton Morris

I like this quote from that article:

Traditional benzodiazepine hypnotics (such as the aforementioned Valium and Xanax) suppress the REM cycle, but gaboxadol leaves REM undisturbed while lengthening the duration of slow-wave sleep, a dreamful stage of non-REM sleep considered important for memory consolidation and feelings of restedness.

And I like this:

I decided to send off a sample of the material to a toxicologist friend for gas chromatography–mass spectroscopy (GC–MS) analysis. When the results came back they were not consistent with gaboxadol, rather indicating the chemical ibotenic acid, a brainlesioning agent.

Shows that it's wise to send samples of substances you buy online to a lab for testing.

 

[frozenborderline]

I like this quote from that article:



And I like this:


Shows that it's wise to send samples of substances you buy online to a lab for testing.

He ended up retesting and it was gaboxadol not ibotenic acid, there was an issue w the gc ms and heat.

Although the article was inconclusive, gaboxadol seems like a possible God send for ppl w insomnia ESPECIALLY if reliant on benzos

 

[frozenborderline]

I like this quote from that article:



And I like this:


Shows that it's wise to send samples of substances you buy online to a lab for testing.

Here's my favorite
"Gaboxadol seemed exemplary of a pharmaceutical industry that would prefer to sell minimally effective drugs devoid of side effects than medicines which might possess a therapeutic effect but put the maker at risk of litigation."

 

[Hip]

He ended up retesting and it was gaboxadol not ibotenic acid, there was an issue w the gc ms and heat.

Ah right, I did not get to the end of the article.

 

[frozenborderline]

Ah right, I did not get to the end of the article.

You may also enjoy the show. It costs 2 dollars per episode but could probably find a free one. Even though it's more about psychoactive drugs rather than ones that treat physical disease, u often can get interesting treatment ideas from it, like I learned about gaboxadol for one... and also learned about Czech xenon clinics.

 

[frozenborderline]

A Fungal Fairy tale , hamiltons pharmacopeia season 2 episode 7

 

[frozenborderline]

@sb4 you may enjoy too

 

[Booble]

I suspect in my case the main brain inflammation comes from have a virus in my brain (my ME/CFS started with viral encephalitis), but I think gut inflammation pushes that brain inflammation to higher levels.

With severe GAD, I was a complete desperado, and was trying anything to reduce it. I'd try out any angle, or any idea, in the hope that something would work.

I used to find that snorting warm steam from a boiling kettle would help reduce anxiety. Obviously your nose has to be about a foot or so above the kettle, to give the steam a chance to cool a bit, as you don't want to burn yourself.

The warm steam I found would reduce inflammation in my nasal cavity and sinuses, and again this I believe reduces brain inflammation (I suspect that nerves in the nasal and sinus cavities signal to the brain, much like the vagus signaling, and this signaling will increase neuroinflammation).

Once your anxiety gets to what is medically classified as severe, you actually spend your entire day trying to reduce it. No other thought enters your head other than trying to reduce the anxiety levels. I spent around 7 years like that, so as you can imagine, I tried a lot of things! I guess you may be in a similar state with trying to deal with constant pain.

This is very interesting. Sometimes I wonder if my problem is all in my sinuses! What feels like brain fog might be my upper sinuses being clogged. What feels like fatigue might be all my sinuses inflamed, what feels like difficulty breathing leading to high heart rate increase might be my sinuses being clogged.

 

[Judee]

I haven't read the entire post so forgive me if someone already included this. I found this Jordan Peterson video on youtube where he talks about overanalyzing being a part of anxiety. (A friend of mine recently said I overthink things.)

He makes some very good suggestions. Of course one of them is exercise which is not recommended necessarily for us but the other ideas were interesting:

 

[frozenborderline]

Certainly 4 grams of taurine are much more noticeable than theanine; I hardly noticed anything from theanine, it did not even dent the high anxiety levels I used to have. But I think I was only taking around 200 of theanine, so perhaps that's not a fair comparison.

Is 4 grams of taurine safe, and are there studies on safety or efficacy?

 

[Hip]

Is 4 grams of taurine safe, and are there studies on safety or efficacy?

Found this:

A proposed safe level of taurine consumption is 3 g/day; however, taurine has been tested in doses as high as 10 g/day for 6 months

 

[hapl808]

I find brain fog and headaches are more of a primary complaint for me than anxiety. But it's only debilitating in PEM (caused by mental or physical exertion) and does seem inflammation related as caffeine and ibuprofen will take the edge off, but I keep looking for a way to stop it rather than mitigate the effects.

Any suggestions for that? Been trying regular magnesium, curcumin, ashwagandha, propolis, etc.

 

[Hip]

Any suggestions for that?

You might like to consider the anti-inflammatory effects of N-acetyl glucosamine that is the focus of this anti-anxiety thread.

 

[hapl808]

You might like to consider the anti-inflammatory effects of N-acetyl glucosamine that is the focus of this anti-anxiety thread.

I tried NAG (Jarrow) as well as flaxseed and curcumin that you mentioned. I haven't found those helpful at all, despite research looking so promising. Flaxseed actually seemed to give me some anxiety strangely enough. Generally anxiety isn't a big symptom for me unless I'm in a more severe crash. But even minor PEM crashes that follow any exertion give me reflux, pressure headaches, brain fog, muscle pain, etc.

Somewhat helpful is magnesium, black seed oil, passion flower (although possible rebound), ashwagandha, etc. None of these help as much as strong caffeinated tea with some ibuprofen, but I really prefer to avoid NSAIDs.

 

[hapl808]

Oh - I also tried large dosages of kefir to remodel the gut. That improved bowel movements a bit, but seemed to give me more tachycardia and anxiety. Maybe a histamine reaction? When I stopped, in a day or two the anxiety went away and tachycardia went back to 100 average HR from the 115-120 it had climbed to. Would obviously prefer if HR were down in the 70s - I feel much better then, but not sure if beta blockers are the way.

 

[Hip]

I've got a thread about how trimetazidine eliminates my headaches.

Have you looked at the PEM busters thread? Some patients have found the treatments listed there reduce their PEM.

 

[hapl808]

I'll have to look at trimetazidine again - never have tried it. I have tried carnosine before but didn't notice an effect on my headaches although I think I was taking it more for gut issues? Have to check my notes. (EDIT: I realize the carnosine I took was zinc carnosine and not the one you were talking about.)

I've tried most of the things in the PEM thread except for a few items like corticosteroids that just seem like borrowing against the future. I do keep trying a lot of the same things hoping I'll find the right combo or dose. Today I've been doing magnesium malate, Miyarisan, taurine, quercetin, curcumin, propolis, andrographis, black seed oil, coq10, ashwagandha, etc.