Naviaux et. al.: Metabolic features of chronic fatigue syndrome

Janet Dafoe

Janet Dafoe

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msf said:
I think people just aren´t thinking about evolution the right way. Genes aren´t always advantageous or disadvantageous, it depends on their environment. The same goes for phenomena like altered metabolisms, and so forth. It seems quite unlikely that this is advantageous for those with severe ME, unless the bed-bound are managing to find dates, go out, and have children somehow. It may be advantageous in those with mild ME - my father, for example, had four children after getting mild ME, and although this one (the one with ME) may not have children, it´s quite likely that the others will.

Of course, this mechanism will not have been selected for solely because of ME, there will be many such diseases (or states) where it is either advantageous or disadvantageous; the fact that it seems to so prevalent suggests that overall it is advantageous, but we cannot say whether it is advantageous or disadvantageous in any particular individual or group of individuals without studying the surrounding environment.
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It could be that some kind of bottleneck occurred in evolution and only those organisms that were in a hypometabolic state survived.
 
Ben H

Ben H

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Not to detract from this thread-it is very relevant to it-but I will be posting Ron Davis's response to this research shortly, along with Dr Naviauxs comments expanding on this.

Stay tuned, will post link to seperate thread shortly.


B
 
alex3619

alex3619

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msf said:
Genes aren´t always advantageous or disadvantageous, it depends on their environment.
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Conserved genes are advantageous to the species, but can kill individuals. It all depends on circumstances, as you discussed. Sickle cell anemia is a good "simple" example. However the most common trigger for ME and CFS is viral infections, and this dauer state would confer increased resistance, especially to Herpes virus infections (though there is mixed evidence of that in this study). On the other hand it might induce decreased resistance to bacterial and fungal infections.
 
M

msf

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Rose49 said:
It could be that some kind of bottleneck occurred in evolution and only those organisms that were in a hypometabolic state survived.
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Yes, it could be, but I do not think this will turn out to be a relic. There are enough diseases and different metabolic states at play in the world today for this to be advantageous in some of them.
 
alex3619

alex3619

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Valentijn said:
But I get fed up with the excessive negativity about piddling little details. No one's even proposing a name, but people are getting caught up in shooting it down already :confused:
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I don't know that is happening. I think people are almost jovial, and joking. My original post was very much in a joking frame. Its a time for celebration! Though we should also keep in mind that early research often has errors or distortions.
 
alex3619

alex3619

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msf said:
Sorry, I should have written ´JK´ after my comment. I was trying to suggest that Naviaux had mistaken nemotode worms for ME patients.
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Is understood. Lol. I am starting to crash from doing too much the last two days, and I will most likely miss things. I am very guilty of making obtuse jokes that others do not easily understand, I have a long history of it.
 
G

Gijs

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alex3619 said:
Ron Davis seems excited by this. From that I would tentatively conclude the answer is yes, its similar to other findings.
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Ground-breaking research at Griffith University in Brisbane had already made a similar find and researchers there are now leading the way for the development of a new screening tool for the condition, Professor Marshall-Gradisnik
 
M

msf

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´The metabolic state of an individual at the time of illness is produced by both current conditions, age, and the aggregate history, timing, and magnitude of exposures to physical and emotional stress, trauma, diet, exercise, infections, and the microbiome recorded as metabolic memory´


I´m also glad to see that they are alert to the fact that the microbiome might be behind some of this.
 
Marky90

Marky90

Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance
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God this is just such a milestone.
I am almost sure we will look back on this one as the turning point, it is that good of a study.
And i also love that Naviaux et.al has results so striking that they can cut the crap, e.g. "more studies are needed to..", and just go right ahead and replicate!!
 
Cheesus

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Valentijn said:
Yes, and I think worrying about schoolyard taunts is hardly a good reason to veto any name which is ever going to be suggested. The spelling is obviously different, so would at least not encourage the online academic trolling (aka "ME ME ME", or "ME as a MEME").

But I get fed up with the excessive negativity about piddling little details. No one's even proposing a name, but people are getting caught up in shooting it down already :confused:
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It wasn't really meant to be taken as a serious post.
 
Cheesus

Cheesus

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Esther12 said:
To reporters who do not know the details, that risks playing into some of the prejudices Wessely & co have been promoting about patients.
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Yes that is possible. Hopefully it would not be read that way, or at least they would not read anything into it. Though this is the media we're dealing with...
 
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