LED red intranasal light therapy

[IntelligentImpulse]

I'm glad you're finding positive effects with your homemade gadget, @escallum. I've been experimenting on myself with reflex tests (http://www.neurofeedback-partner.de/product_info.php?info=p86_capit-o.html) along with memory tests and have found a noticeable improvement over the course of three months or so (I do own the Vielight Neuro + Vielight 810 though). I could publish my Excel file test sheet results if anyone's interested. Though, a n=1 sample size is not a good measure, would be nice if other people were to self-test and document their results.

I'm a retired electrical engineer, as some of you know, so I have a lot of extra free time. Over the past month, I've looked into building my own intranasal devices by dismantling the Vielight 810's control unit(see picture below) and examining the circuit board. From what I can tell from the layout, the Vielight devices appear deceivingly simple but are actually very efficiently designed, I wouldn't be able to replicate this miniaturized PCB layout without a team of electrical engineers and a relatively high capital cost to build something that's marketable.

Sorry about the dirt LOL, my basement workshop needs to be dusted.

I did consider the oral cavity as an alternative too, given that I can't actually manufacture and sell anything that stimulates the brain via light energy through the intranasal channel because of Vielight Inc's patent. However, the oral cavity imo is less efficient, based on data and after roughly crunching numbers through the formulas provided in this study : https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_NIR_light_dosimetry_in_the_human_deep_brain .

I, personally, do agree with the scientists in that study that the intranasal channel is the most efficient channel to reach the brain given that it's closer to the brain plus there is the added benefit of exposing blood vessels to photonic stimulation too.

If anything, I'd probably focus my efforts on making a device that "photobiomodulates" via the mouth but having something in my mouth is less comfortable than the nose for me and much less effective.

Since we're on the topic.. this is the pricey Vielight Neuro's intranasal applicator that I've been trying to replicate without damaging (sorry about the dirty lens, I do a lot of outdoor photography)

From what I can see, there's quite a fair bit of microchip LED technology designed to extract/pulse 810 nm light. It's definitely a step above using regular LED diodes. Plus I did notice the lens has a slight angle (divergence) to it too, to point the light properly towards the brain (and not the eyes), something that regular LED diodes lack.

Either way, to each his own.. I have quite a lot of money saved and while I definitely think the Vielight devices are pricey, I think they have well-researched power density parameters/electronics etc.. a small investment if one considers the long run.

My main gripe is how the control units feel light and plastic-y and the back clip of my control unit broke after it fell on the pavement during a run - the exterior definitely doesn't reflect the quality of the interior. I'll probably be claiming warranty on it soon.

 

[Chris]

@IntelligentImpulse--thanks for this--makes me feel more justified in having spent some money on the 810 and 633! If you find a way to build a separate "super" 810, be sure to let us know!

 

[Chris]

@IntelligentImpulse--I am sure you know this already, but just to confirm--the "super" 810 incorporated into the "Neuro" has the same parameters of pulse and Duty Cycle as the "regular" 810 (10hz, 50%) but about twice the power. I think it would be great if Lew Lim made a unit incorporating two "super" 810s powered by the one control unit, and thus pulsing in synchrony, for use in the ears to try to improve hearing loss and tinnitus.... but I don't think he will.....

 

[Milpower]

Okay, I deleted my first post in this thread because it was not appropriate for the sheer amount of work, attention, and education this very long thread contains.

First, please allow me to thank the many contributors for their time. Chris, Asklipia, Hip, Mr. Pulse, and everyone else...wow. Such an education this has been after three days of reading and then re-reading each post, along with many of the associated videos and linked webpages.

Next, before Monday of this week, I'd never heard of M.E. and I am only minimally aware of the effects of CFS. I am sorry all of you suffer from what I imagine is a very challenging condition, but feel better knowing some of you found relief.

Longer post coming, so please get comfortable.

Briefly about me: I am a 49 y/y man, retired from the U.S. Navy, and am categorized as being fully disabled due to arthritis, tinnitus, cervical spondylosis, sciatica, erectile dysfunction, CFS, vision problems (I see everything in blur and in triplicate), radicular neuropathy, migraines, mild to severe degeneration of my cervical spine, and more. Add to that a helluva lot of pain which varies througout the day.

In December of 2013, I found myself in the hospital with agonizing pain from what was later revealed to be bone spurs in my cervical spine causing referred pain. I also learned the lump on my throat was an issue with my thyroid and, finally, my initial blood tests came back indicating I had CLL. The doctor said, "We have a few more tests we need to run, but while CLL is unfortunate, it is easily controlled with medication". I told them I'd work on it myself.

In Dec. 2013, I was 205 lbs and very fit. By February 2014 I was down to 155 lbs and during that time I was bedridden for three weeks in what can only be described as agonizing torture every single second of every single day...for several weeks in a row. Suicide was a constant consideration, but so too was the war of pain I was in. At one point, I realized there was only one truth: beat this, or have it kill me.

I have theories, but it's safe to say something in me was causing me to be sick. Likely a combination of chemical and radiological exposure, along with toxiciy due to my serving in the military.

Something needed to be done, or I would be dead before 50.

SO, today I am pain free (from my neck: there is still tha back, shoulder, knee, wrist, and finger pain) since September 2014. My weight is still low at 165 (I am 73" tall) and I've lost all my extra muscle mass. And, my love of fitness has vanished. Now, I just eat cleanly and enjoy life as much as I can, BUT...

But, I WANT MY OLD SELF BACK. Or at least the part of me that was big and strong and capable and engaged.

So, my entire house is now filled with health-promoting devices.

FIR sauna, FIR "biomat", Vie Lights, Cowan air purifiers, mini-trampoline, sprouts, wheatgrass, no manmade chemicals FOR ANYTHING in the house, ice baths, exercise room, etc. I have a very clean diet and teach others to do the same, along with have them come to my home and show them how to set up their house to be health promoting.

I disclose all this to get to the point of only having so much money.

Vielights ARE expensive. But, I want to rebuild my DNA. I WANT my 20/12 super vision back. I WANT to rebuild my body. It seems, especially after immersing myself in this thread that the LLLT *is* one way of either doing that, or of at least contributing.

So, if anyone has any excellent idea for rebuilding the eyes and can either suggest a device, or build one, I am [ahem] all ears. If building one can be done for a reasonabe amount, I will pay for the pleasure of having it. Ditto for other ideas regarding muscle regeneration.

This thread taught me to use the 633 in not only my nose, but also my ears (thank you, Chris), and belly button (thank you Asklipia). I also use it on any rash or cut I get. Since I began using turpentine and oil of oregano, a nasty rash developed on my right inner bicep. Itchy and raw, only turpentine-infused EVOO seems to keep it worsening. Since it's localized, I will assume it's a detox reaction to "something" I am doing.

Kind of a jumbled post, I know, but if anyone has an idea of some spectacular treatments for any of the issues I mentioned, or has another LLLT product which shows great promise, then I would like to hear about it.

Thank you again for this incredible thread.

 

[Chris]

@Milpower--sorry to hear about all your problems--but on the other hand you seem to have been doing an admirable job of improving things to date--great. But I don't know of anything that will rebuild your DNA, and your vision problems sound serious. There are a couple of clinics in Germany that are using LLLT to improve some eye problems, but mostly macular degeneration and stuff like that--and that is extremely specialized stuff--don't know of anyone really doing that in North America.

I have been using the V 633 and 810 on my ears in a rather haphazard way, but no significant effects yet. I did get an evening free of tinnitus after a first trial of the 810, but that has not lasted. I check from time to time to see if there has been significant improvement of my high frequency hearing, but again nothing worth reporting at this time. There is a web forum, Tinnitustalk.com, that has a long thread under the section title "Alternative Therapies" focused on LLLT, and some are reporting some success--a device called the LuckyLaser made in China seems the favourite at the moment, but the outcomes seem varied and some are calling the whole attempt a sham--though I am not in that group. But it ain't cheap, and I am not yet ready to take the plunge until I see more clear evidence of success.

So far LLLT has been very successfully used to improve muscle and joint pain and damage, and with some apparent success in some neural conditions involving damage, such as nonintrusive brain damage (TBI) and stroke. There is a little evidence for improvement in some neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and the Vielight Neuro is currently being used in a trial of the former. But a good many of your symptoms seem rather out of reach, though depending on where you live you might contact a local provider of the Bioflex laser systems--you can look up the website to find a local provider, if there is one, with whom you might discuss some possibilities. They have some fairly powerful devices, and I know of a couple of ME/CFS patients who seem to be having some success with that approach. I have been using two MED-X capsules as well as the nasal units, and some symptoms have been improving slowly, but alas energy and stamina are not yet among them. And you could just try pot luck and buy a Vielight Neuro on spec, though I am not at all sure it would help with many of the things you list, and there are still some not fully resolved questions surrounding the use of this stuff in the presence of a cancer, though it does seem very unlikely that it may provoke cancer where there is none. You could explore this issue on Lew Lim's other website, mediclights.com .

 

[Chris]

@Milpower--a few more random thoughts. You are really looking for magic, and the best guide I know to current magic in this sphere is Norman Doidge's "The Brain's Way of Healing"--Chapter 4 is what got me into investigating LLLT, but there is fascinating stuff in other chapters too, including, especially, Chapter 7. You list such an array of problems that a wide search is what you need. This is not to downplay the magic of LLLT. As I have posted before, I think that we with ME/CFS face a problem using this stuff--there are now several good articles showing that NIR does act upon molecules in the complex pathway that produces ATP from our mitochondria, but that stimulation also produces an increase in Reactive Oxygen Species, and we have trouble clearing those because our intracellular antioxidant systems are dysfunctional--glutathione, etc. So I think pulsing and low power are more necessary for us than for others. Which is one reason why Lew Lim of Vielights is someone I follow closely--his products are all low power, and he advises moderation on their use--the Neuro only two or three times a week, for instance.

There are no studies on the use of this stuff in ME that I know of, and the very few on MS, with which we have many similarities, also recommend low level, breaks, etc. The new Repuls units from Germany use a pulse rate of 2.5Hz with the explicit aim of giving time for the clearance of reactive stuff produced. If you want to try using the Vielights for your ears, I have two suggestions: one is that I have been advised that it can be counter-productive to use two pulsed units that are not synchronized from the same power supply--may interfere with brain waves. I am not sure of this, but follow the advice. So I can use the continuous 633 (the 655 laser is also continuous) and the 810, but two separate 810 would not be advised, though it is tempting. The other suggestion is that applicators (the diode portion with cable) are available for each of the units, and during a recent sale I bought spare applicators for my 633 and 810 at reasonable prices, and found it easy to withdraw the plastic clip from its housing without cutting or breaking it, enabling me to apply the tip of the diode housing directly to my ear canal opening--much more comfortable, and probably more efficient. But as I said in my previous post, no definitive results yet.

One more note; there is potential magic in LLLT, which has not fully been tracked down yet. A dentist working at the NIH recently managed to use it to stimulate stem cells to repair the intentionally damaged tooth of a rat--magical dentistry may lie in the future! But having just spent a lot of ,money on a needed replacement bridge for my front teeth, I know very well that is not here yet. We are in the early, experimental days of this stuff still.

 

[Milpower]

I've been busy last couple of days and only had time to skim the new posts. Sorry to hear some are not getting positive initial results. Hard to figure. Hate to even bring up the oft-used 'detox', an easy explanation, but I suppose it could explain things. I mean, even getting a bad tooth pulled could be tabbed 'detox', but only a masochist would really appreciate the rather rough treatment.

Chronic insomnia is an insidious, horrible and life altering problem, and I truly hope there hasn't been false hope given to sufferers of this plague. Can only say it's helped me; better sleep from the beginning but not better sleep every night, just better function even when I don't sleep well. Also this: had a very long day yesterday, up and going before crack of dawn (it was a gorgeous sunrise), busy all day, and totally worn out by bedtime. So, leela I tried the belly button thing, just put it there and let bed cover hold it, and probably in less than five minutes (did not intend to fall asleep while using it) I was out like a light and slept like a log.

Hmm, slept like a log, what does that even mean? I don't know if that's just a regional saying, but it describes pretty well my experience, as I 'think' I hardly moved the whole night and woke up after daylight with Vielight still in bed with me (yep, she's sorta my honey, now). Never thought I'd end up with a redneck (or nosed) woman, but we're getting along, I'd say, very well.

Did anyone else read Asklipia's link on sun gazing? Amazing! How many, be honest, are at least giving a thought or two to trying that?

I am, but have to get better sleep before getting up before sunrise.

 

[Milpower]

Yes I think that it could.
And that the answer is not in stopping the thyroid function, but in making sure that there is no blockage of lymph anywhere.
For that :
- the lymph has to be more fluid
- the body has to be aligned
- there must be enough muscular activity to push the lymph around
- the sympathetic and the parasympathetic activities of the nervous system must be balanced. This is a huge point most always overlooked because few people have knowledge in detail of this, and they are not sick or interested in medicine. In the same way as blood flow depends in some measure of SNS or PNS activity, the lymph flow too follows this.
For example most people know that when you run, SNS takes over and blood flows to the muscles and leaves the internal organs, and when you rest, blood leaves the skin and goes to the internal organs.
The problems of blood distribution are well known. I would like to point out that the left jaw problem also appears in the blood distribution there. Notice the success that Italian doctor had with MS patients by cleaning their jugular vein, on the left side most of the time. Dr Zamboni and his CCSVI procedure - Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency - http://ccsvi.org/index.php/the-basics/what-is-ccsvi).
And in fact when I was very ill I would wake up many times in the night with my head turned completely to the left, effectively blocking as much as I could blood (or lymph) from moving in that area.
Which makes me think that this left-side blocking is not the cause of MS or CFS, but a desperate attempt of the body to protect the brain.

The hypothesis of Dr. Perrin is for me in the same vein (haha). He says that lymph goes the wrong way sometimes and gets stagnant and it starts ME. I think that the reason why lymph goes the wrong way and you get the varicose lymph vessels, eventually, is because sympathetic or parasympathetic activity is unbalanced. Once you have created larger lymph nodes, you have to duplicate them to make room for all that lymph, you get more lymph nodes as well as enlarged ones. You push the lymph in the wrong way anywhere you can to avoid build-up etc. Eventually it becomes uncomfortable, but for it to come to that bad point, it takes years. Which is why it is difficult to understand what exactly brought the problem about in the first place.

SNS and PNS push the lymph around in different ways. When both are perfectly in balance another third lymph distribution pattern happens (like in love, opioid use, death).
The lymphatic system is the Tree of Life.

Thank you very much Little Bluestem for making me write this. I hope many other people enjoy it.

I notice the LED gives me enough strength to concentrate and write many long posts relating things I thought but did not have the energy to organize in words. Thank you Lou for the LED idea!
Lots of red light to all!
Asklipia

Reading this, took a third reading btw, produced an aha moment. I sleep mostly on my stomach, facing left.

Started the exercises, in full, just today. Was able to do #1 for full 3 mins.; #2 for only 3 mins.; #3 for full 2 mins; #4 for full 3 mins. but these are hard as my arms are way too long for my torso; #5 for full 3 mins., but only 50 in total; and for #6, full time, but was hard pulling chin in. Worked up a small sweat and was a bit worn out. Shoulders on fire, too.

Thank you again, Asklipia. I will be doing these daily, slowly moving up in duration and tempo.

 

[Milpower]

So glad you people are still alive!

Here there is an interesting development.
95th day of my exercise. I keep having detox in a moderate but regular flow so I did not use the LED.
The energy is very good. So I tried adding another yoga routine, one for ensuring that all colours are balanced. It was nice but after 11 days of it I felt it was helping in a subtle way but not pushing for what I really need NOW.

The day before yesterday a student came who had started with me the exercise. She is also on the 95th day and she received lots of the benefits but not the rashes and pimples. Her back was much worse than mine, so I suppose she might not be yet at the point when you start getting that type of detox. Also, an important point I think, she has not used the LED.
Which could very well point to the fact that the LED is the trigger for starting that detox (trigger not necessary to go on detoxing it seems, at least for me at the moment).
Since it seems that the LED increases the level of energy available (maybe by bringing energy from outside of the body in the form of red light), and that this high level of energy allows for detoxing activity,
on that line of thought, I decided to give her an exercise to release pranic energy.

This is a short exercise, not at all tiring BUT which I was unable to do pre-doing the first exercise I shared here, because my back and shoulders were in a position such that it was well-nigh impossible, too painful etc. And anyway I did not have the stamina for such things.
We did it very easily. Then we were both stunned and flabbergasted!!! We felt a huge increase in oxygenation, a burst really, a release of energy, pranic energy I suppose . The whole body was coming alive and boiling. We felt places where the energy would not go and they were like islands gnawed at by this boiling!!!! The effect lasted for more than 3 hours. After that she left and I went to bed. Of course I could not sleep. My husband could feel electric impulses coming out of my hair, even the hair on my forearms, and not by touching me, just by being near.
I woke up this morning with a scattering of extra pimples AND feeling completely NORMAL. 15 years old normal.

Which brings me to this. The lymphatic problem behind the lungs brings an under-oxygenation of the blood. If you solve this, you repair the rest. ME/CFS could be a kind of soft cystic fibrosis.

Obviously I am going to add exercise #2 to my routine, far away from bedtime. And I don't think it is a good idea before at least 60 days of exercise #1 because it would not be very effective. In my experience, there is no need to do useless exercises, and the body refuses rightly to do them.
It could very well be that we have filled up with pranic energy by doing exercise #1 and released it with exercise #2.
That #2 could not release much if there is nothing in the tank. It could be that Chronic Fatigue is an inability to fill the tank, or to access that energy or both.
A postural problem certainly would affect both.

The mind is clear. The eyes are not too bad. The eyes of the student are better!!!! She does not have to use her reading glasses anymore. She lost them twice last week, so I sent her to have her eyes tested thinking that she unconsciously knew she did not need them. The optician told her she could donate them as she did not need them anymore.

I wish you all a very nice day with plenty of happiness!
Asklipia

Although you've already added so much to this thread, and we are are grateful, would you mind sharing "exercise #2"?

I promise not to use it until at least day 60 of the first series you shared. But, I would like to know and mentally practice it so when it is time, I will know how to do it.

Also, I found a fix for exercise #4 of the first series. Since my arms are too long, it makes doing the exercise impossible to do correctly. So, today I sat on two yoga block. This raised my height to the perfect level and then I was able to fully twist and bring each shoulder forward.

Not sure how to breath through one nostril though.

 

[maddietod]

@Asklipia I just went back through this thread and found your 2013 posts about lymph exercises. How did that work out for you? And are you still using vielights?

 

[Asklipia]

@Asklipia I just went back through this thread and found your 2013 posts about lymph exercises. How did that work out for you? And are you still using vielights?

Hi @maddietod , I think I am completely cured, just old now!
Not using anything except from probiotics (which I rotate) and some Alinamin EX. At the moment playing with kettlebells. In perfect health apart from eyesight problems which I had all my life really.
Be well

 

[IntelligentImpulse]

It's been awhile since I posted within these forums but I found this link from this company's Facebook feed(https://www.facebook.com/vielight/) on my Facebook wall , figured I might share with you guys :

http://www.newswire.ca/news-release...arable-low-level-light-therapy-586012561.html

Seems like Vielight are trying to validate what they're trying to achieve on a cognitive basis via clinical trials approved by the FDA.

On my end, I've stopped experimenting with the cognitive tests as I've been getting lazy with old age and use the Neuro sporadically. I might just start doing testing again.

 

[esecallum]

hi

back to see how things are here.saw the PCB photo.nothing complicated about it.i can see right away that it has voltage step up circuit to boost the 1.5 volt battery voltage to a higher voltage.it also has a voltage regulator.

it also has a pulsing circuit and a timing circuit.i can tell just by looking at it.

anyway i have constructed dozens of these devices using 1 watt & 3 watt led beads with wavelength 630 660 850 970...etc..

i usually glue the leds to a reflective surface metal plate for example a metal pencil case lid or a torch reflector or a reflective metal cigarette holder using superglue or uhu and connect them in series.

the reason to glue them to metal is to draw the heat away from the leds at high current over about 130 milliamps the leds can become quite warm....

i put a variable resistor in series so can i can control the current from 20 milliamps to 300 milliamps and run them of a cheap 12 volt 1 amp wall adapter which also allows the voltage to be varied from 3, 4.5. 6, 7.5, 9 & 12 volts.

this gives me huge flexibility in how much red light is output and the intensity.

these led beads are incredibly cheap...10 for $ 4 dollars!!! from ebay. just type plant grow leds beads in ebay search.

i just ordered another 75 3 watt leds for $25 bulk so i can experiment more.

i might post photos someday.

i have used them in my mouth to heal a tooth with a filling in it which seemed to give an indication of coming loose.i used the leds inside and out and i don t get the feeling anymore.

i have been doing research and which indicates that type 1 and type 2 diabetic patents could be helped a lot by these devices.

i am not diabetic so i cant test this perhaps you lot if you are diabetic could do some experiments?

any comments?

I'm glad you're finding positive effects with your homemade gadget, @escallum. I've been experimenting on myself with reflex tests (http://www.neurofeedback-partner.de/product_info.php?info=p86_capit-o.html) along with memory tests and have found a noticeable improvement over the course of three months or so (I do own the Vielight Neuro + Vielight 810 though). I could publish my Excel file test sheet results if anyone's interested. Though, a n=1 sample size is not a good measure, would be nice if other people were to self-test and document their results.

I'm a retired electrical engineer, as some of you know, so I have a lot of extra free time. Over the past month, I've looked into building my own intranasal devices by dismantling the Vielight 810's control unit(see picture below) and examining the circuit board. From what I can tell from the layout, the Vielight devices appear deceivingly simple but are actually very efficiently designed, I wouldn't be able to replicate this miniaturized PCB layout without a team of electrical engineers and a relatively high capital cost to build something that's marketable.

Sorry about the dirt LOL, my basement workshop needs to be dusted.

I did consider the oral cavity as an alternative too, given that I can't actually manufacture and sell anything that stimulates the brain via light energy through the intranasal channel because of Vielight Inc's patent. However, the oral cavity imo is less efficient, based on data and after roughly crunching numbers through the formulas provided in this study : https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_NIR_light_dosimetry_in_the_human_deep_brain .

I, personally, do agree with the scientists in that study that the intranasal channel is the most efficient channel to reach the brain given that it's closer to the brain plus there is the added benefit of exposing blood vessels to photonic stimulation too.

If anything, I'd probably focus my efforts on making a device that "photobiomodulates" via the mouth but having something in my mouth is less comfortable than the nose for me and much less effective.

Since we're on the topic.. this is the pricey Vielight Neuro's intranasal applicator that I've been trying to replicate without damaging (sorry about the dirty lens, I do a lot of outdoor photography)

From what I can see, there's quite a fair bit of microchip LED technology designed to extract/pulse 810 nm light. It's definitely a step above using regular LED diodes. Plus I did notice the lens has a slight angle (divergence) to it too, to point the light properly towards the brain (and not the eyes), something that regular LED diodes lack.

Either way, to each his own.. I have quite a lot of money saved and while I definitely think the Vielight devices are pricey, I think they have well-researched power density parameters/electronics etc.. a small investment if one considers the long run.

My main gripe is how the control units feel light and plastic-y and the back clip of my control unit broke after it fell on the pavement during a run - the exterior definitely doesn't reflect the quality of the interior. I'll probably be claiming warranty on it soon.

 

[Chris]

@IntelligentImpulse--a couple of questions; you mentioned some tests you had done using the Vielight 810 and also the Neuro; do you have any thoughts on how much the Neuro adds to the 810, given that the 810+ 633 had a good effect in a case of Alzheimer's a couple of years ago, and that the combo of 810+ Neuro seems to have had an even better effect in a trial now ended but not yet published? Do you have any objective or subjective thoughts on just how effective those transcranial units are--they look rather underpowered to me, though would love to get my hands on the "super" 810 that forms part of the Neuro. I have thought of adding a V 655 and using it simultaneously with my standard 810 to try to duplicate the "super" version--any thoughts on that?

 

[chilove]

Wow, this a long thread. I'd love a re-cap if anyone can.. so it helped some alot and in others it most likely caused die off symptoms?

Thanks!

 

[Chris]

@chilove, I'll take one shot, and maybe others will add or modify. First thing is that posters have been using a variety of devices, each with its own focus and parameters, so one should not expect uniformity of response. Second thing is I personally doubt that various symptoms should be classified as "die off"--I have not seen any good evidence that this technology can result in massive viral destruction. That would be great, but I doubt that it does, though am open to correction on this, and there have been studies, mostly in vitro, suggesting that specific wavelengths of light may counter some bacteria and fungus pathogens.

The thread started with the Vielight intranasal units, first the laser V655, then the LED 633. They were tried in various ways--one member tried the belly button approach to the Vagus nerve, though I doubt very much whether these units have the kind of power/penetration needed for that. They were primarily designed to irradiate the large capillary bed of the nasal cavity, as a much safer and less invasive alternative to the direct irradiation of the blood via an IV laser inserted directly into a forearm vein, which had been used for a good many years. This I think they do with some efficacy in my experience. Then came the V 810, designed to reach the underside of the brain where much of the ANS resides. Now there is also the Vielight Neuro, which combines a beefed up 810 and 4 LED capsules aimed at the Default Mode Network of the brain.

In addition, members have been using a variety of LED capsules and pads which can be applied to any part of the brain as transcranial stimulation, though it is difficult to be sure just how much energy actually reaches the brain through the hair, skin, and skull. One or two members have also been treated by Fred Kahn, who uses powerful lasers as well as LED pads, aimed mostly at the back of the neck I believe. Responses have been mixed; one or two have found the Vielight intranasal units uncomfortable and even painful; I use them daily, and have a friend who uses a 633 almost daily, and neither of us have ever had any trouble--I often use a 633 and 810 simultaneously. But I have a local friend who tried the 633, and also found it painful, so obviously this is a real though I think very much a minority possibility.

I shall just list a few responses that I recall, focusing on my own experience, or that of people I know. And beginning with the Vielights. The 633 promises (see Lew Lim's websites, vielight.com and mediclights.com) improved circulation, sleep, less nasal allergy, lowered blood pressure, and a few other things. All these I and a friend have experienced, though they do not happen immediately--this stuff is not like taking an antibiotic. The 810 does seem to have helped some aspects of my ANS symptoms, though not radically. IntelligentImpulse records that using the Neuro and the 810 has resulted in measurable (via a web site testing/exercise thing) improvement in cognitive function, and that supports the recent report that a controlled trial of that combination has significantly improved the state of a group of Alzheimer's patients.

One or two members have gone to Fred Kahn, and have after renting decided to buy one of the LED pads he now sells (Bioflexlaser.com). These I think are excellent units, though they have an odd way of being programmed, and I don't know if one can programme them oneself. They are expensive, but I assume high quality devices. I have the impression that they do a good job, and can of course be used on any part of the body--sore muscles, tired joints, etc as well as the nape and portions of the skull.

I have two MED-X capsules, a bit like smaller versions of the Bioflex units, but with the advantage that I can programme them myself--there is good evidence that pulsing the light offers better penetration, and Lew Lim pulses his 810 and Neuro at 10hz to mesh with the Alpha rhythm of the brain. I have found that overuse of these plus steady use of the 633 and 810 can result in what feels like inflammatory overload, and it sems that we have to be wary of overusing this stuff. Lew Lim's devices have the advantage of coming with suggestions for frequency of use, and with built-in timers.

There are many cheaper LED red and Near Infra Red pads available, all of which I assume can be useful for some conditions--some build their own, sometimes using rather powerful diodes--results not yet really clear. Go to Mediclights.com and watch Lew Lim's introductory video--I think it offers a good entry point to this whole realm.
And good luck! Chris

 

[brenda]

I have just taken delivery of two red laser devices which are to be used with the spooky2 frequency generators that l already own . The devices are very cheap around $20 and the spooky gen is also cheap. They are good quality and made in China. Look on the spooky2 forum for more information.

I am using the lasers for pain and stiffness in my hands and fingers, and for healing the brain. People are having good results.

The spooky enterprise us none profit making so that these gadgets are available to all.

 

[chilove]

Wow, thanks so much Chris! Great summary. I really appreciate it.

@chilove, I'll take one shot, and maybe others will add or modify. First thing is that posters have been using a variety of devices, each with its own focus and parameters, so one should not expect uniformity of response. Second thing is I personally doubt that various symptoms should be classified as "die off"--I have not seen any good evidence that this technology can result in massive viral destruction. That would be great, but I doubt that it does, though am open to correction on this, and there have been studies, mostly in vitro, suggesting that specific wavelengths of light may counter some bacteria and fungus pathogens.

The thread started with the Vielight intranasal units, first the laser V655, then the LED 633. They were tried in various ways--one member tried the belly button approach to the Vagus nerve, though I doubt very much whether these units have the kind of power/penetration needed for that. They were primarily designed to irradiate the large capillary bed of the nasal cavity, as a much safer and less invasive alternative to the direct irradiation of the blood via an IV laser inserted directly into a forearm vein, which had been used for a good many years. This I think they do with some efficacy in my experience. Then came the V 810, designed to reach the underside of the brain where much of the ANS resides. Now there is also the Vielight Neuro, which combines a beefed up 810 and 4 LED capsules aimed at the Default Mode Network of the brain.

In addition, members have been using a variety of LED capsules and pads which can be applied to any part of the brain as transcranial stimulation, though it is difficult to be sure just how much energy actually reaches the brain through the hair, skin, and skull. One or two members have also been treated by Fred Kahn, who uses powerful lasers as well as LED pads, aimed mostly at the back of the neck I believe. Responses have been mixed; one or two have found the Vielight intranasal units uncomfortable and even painful; I use them daily, and have a friend who uses a 633 almost daily, and neither of us have ever had any trouble--I often use a 633 and 810 simultaneously. But I have a local friend who tried the 633, and also found it painful, so obviously this is a real though I think very much a minority possibility.

I shall just list a few responses that I recall, focusing on my own experience, or that of people I know. And beginning with the Vielights. The 633 promises (see Lew Lim's websites, vielight.com and mediclights.com) improved circulation, sleep, less nasal allergy, lowered blood pressure, and a few other things. All these I and a friend have experienced, though they do not happen immediately--this stuff is not like taking an antibiotic. The 810 does seem to have helped some aspects of my ANS symptoms, though not radically. IntelligentImpulse records that using the Neuro and the 810 has resulted in measurable (via a web site testing/exercise thing) improvement in cognitive function, and that supports the recent report that a controlled trial of that combination has significantly improved the state of a group of Alzheimer's patients.

One or two members have gone to Fred Kahn, and have after renting decided to buy one of the LED pads he now sells (Bioflexlaser.com). These I think are excellent units, though they have an odd way of being programmed, and I don't know if one can programme them oneself. They are expensive, but I assume high quality devices. I have the impression that they do a good job, and can of course be used on any part of the body--sore muscles, tired joints, etc as well as the nape and portions of the skull.

I have two MED-X capsules, a bit like smaller versions of the Bioflex units, but with the advantage that I can programme them myself--there is good evidence that pulsing the light offers better penetration, and Lew Lim pulses his 810 and Neuro at 10hz to mesh with the Alpha rhythm of the brain. I have found that overuse of these plus steady use of the 633 and 810 can result in what feels like inflammatory overload, and it sems that we have to be wary of overusing this stuff. Lew Lim's devices have the advantage of coming with suggestions for frequency of use, and with built-in timers.

There are many cheaper LED red and Near Infra Red pads available, all of which I assume can be useful for some conditions--some build their own, sometimes using rather powerful diodes--results not yet really clear. Go to Mediclights.com and watch Lew Lim's introductory video--I think it offers a good entry point to this whole realm.
And good luck! Chris

 

[chilove]

Well whatever it does, it's very powerful. I bought the Veilight and just did for the first time. After about 20 minutes it dropped my blood pressure big time. I had to drink a lot of water and take a lot of salt and lay down with my feet up to avoid passing out. I think next time I shouldn't do the full 25 minutes. I wouldn't advise it for anyone with POTS

 

[Chris]

@chilove--well, glad it did something, though your response sounds very much more dramatic than I think is usual. Doidge's book does mention a couple of women who slept deeply and long after a first session with some MED-X units applied transcranially, which may be a related response--don't have the details. Which Vielight did you get? I have found using the V633 and V810 my blood pressure has dropped (I used to get really vicious spikes, accompanied by pain and general distress), but it took months to register a real change, and I have never had the kind of thing you describe. I don't have POTS, but I certainly do have OI, and that too has improved significantly over the year+ that I have been using these devices, though it has not disappeared. Reducing the time sounds like a good-even necessary-- idea given your response--I have used the motto "go low, go slow, take breaks" as general advice for those of us trying LLLT, and your experience confirms that! But take care--there may be people who just do not respond well to this stuff.

Keep us informed of how things go, and I hope you can avoid drama in the process!